Once saved....always saved.....Right or Wrong?

Listen to the truth........
Do not give attention to stories words tell.

Words say that you can be saved.
What is this 'you'?

The listening is you.

Can listening be heard?

a reply to: whereislogic

From your other thread…your post below…
found here…

Originally posted by whereislogic
However, a careful study of God’s Word and Christ’s teachings shows that only a limited number share the privilege of being born again, born ‘from water and from spirit,’ thus to share heavenly rulership with Christ. (John 3:3-5; Romans 8:16, 17; Revelation 14:1-3) The “great crowd” of true Christians today do not need to be born again, since their hope of everlasting life is earthly, not heavenly.

Why would God have two different rules for Heavenly and Earthly in regards to receiving the Spirit…That is just absurd and clearly shows that you don’t know what being Born of Spirit truly means…

Anyone who becomes born of the Spirit, realizes that they are inside of Gods Spiritual Kingdom…just by the very fact of realizing that they too are a spiritual being…after having received it!

You state that only a limited number can become “Born again”…Which is just nonsense, as everyone is a Spiritual being... one of the key points of receiving it, is to actually recognize that fact!

Plus Jesus in John 14…says anyone who loves God…can receive the Spirit…

John 14: 15-17
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

And further down in John 14

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Jesus also says whatever a person asks for in his name…they will receive…

John 16: 23-24
In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24 Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

Note also that further up in the same passage, that it talks about Jesus going away and that if he doesn’t go the Spirit won’t come etc…and then further down he talks about receiving the Holy Spirit in verses 12- to 15…

So the whole context in the run up to verses 23-24 is around the topic of receiving the Holy Spirit…Which is most likely what Jesus was tying the phrase “Ask and you will receive” into…Another clue he’s talking about receiving the Holy Spirit, is in the phrase “your joy will be complete”, as we know one of the fruits of the Spirit is Joy…


Luke 11:13…also re-iterates the same point, that people can receive it, if they ask for it…

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Acts 2:38 below states “everyone” can receive the Holy Spirit…

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

So literally anyone can ask to receive the Holy Spirit and according to Jesus, if they ask, they will receive it…

Additionally, the Holy Spirit reminds people of the truth and even teaches truth…so it’s essentially for any and all types of believers…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Yes being “Born Again” is the key. Many believe that baptism, being born of H2O, washes away sin. Whereas in scripture water infers spirit. So sins can only be washed away by spirit, not H2O.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 99.99999% of "believers" want both. They will not believe anything that threatens their delusion. So will die in their sins.

Being born again is not explained in christianity for good reason. It could only be verbally taught to apostles that were ready to hear the truth. Those ready to turn their back on the material realm for the spiritual realm. The process is not difficult. Letting go of everything we prize in the material realm is.

Maya is strong.

a reply to: glend

Originally posted by glend
Yes being “Born Again” is the key. Many believe that baptism, being born of H2O, washes away sin. Whereas in scripture water infers spirit. So sins can only be washed away by spirit, not H2O.

Yes, and there’s even verses which state exactly that…that it’s the Spirit which cleans the person…

Funny thing is, the psychical water baptism is really the outward symbolic sign and tradition for someone who has already received the Spirit imo. The symbolism comes from the fact that the experience of the Receiving the Spirit itself…feels like a fountain of water inside a person’s mid-section…as described in John 7:38

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them."

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Very nicely explained JC. Matthew 6:22 also explains part of the process. Eye can only be single after one eye washes the other.

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: whereislogic
...
Why would God have two different rules for Heavenly and Earthly in regards to receiving the Spirit…

He doesn't. Try not to conflate the concept of being 'born again', with receiving God's holy spirit (God's active force), which is only a component, that is not exclusive to those that are born again. Abraham, Moses, and all the Hebrew prophets of old had received God's holy spirit, their writings where also inspired by God's holy spirit. But none were baptized in water, like Jesus and the apostles (I know, you interpret being 'born from water' differently, but have you seen the videos linked under "a careful study of God’s Word and Christ’s teachings"? They are the same videos as I linked in this thread and they show by means of context that that is indeed what Jesus was referring to when he said "born from water").

Anyone who becomes born of the Spirit, realizes that they are inside of Gods Spiritual Kingdom…just by the very fact of realizing that they too are a spiritual being…after having received it!

The next sentence of what you quoted from me mentions:

Furthermore, Christendom’s teaching is based on a false premise​—that man has an immortal soul in need of salvation. Nowhere in the Bible is there support for such a doctrine, which is in fact derived from ancient Greek philosophy. (For a detailed consideration of these points, see pages 76-80, 356-61, 379-80 in Reasoning From the Scriptures.)

Is that the notion you are referring to when saying "spiritual being"? (not a person who is spiritually inclined, such as in the expression: 'that's a very spiritual person', referring to a certain spirituality the person has) Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, “soul” means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. This latter view is not a Bible teaching. Its origins can be found in Babylon and from there it spread to Egypt and Greece. Becoming very popular in Plato's writings, a Greek philosopher whose teachings were incorporated in the teachings of Christendom. The links above have more details, but if you want a more succinct version:

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal (One Myth Leads to Another)

What is the origin of the myth?

“The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 11, page 25.

What does the Bible say?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”​—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.​—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23

FACT:

At death a person ceases to exist

What is the origin of Christendom’s belief in an immaterial, immortal soul?

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454. (Neoplatonism comes from its spiritual philosophical father, Plato, a Pagan Greek philosopher who did not have God's spirit, nor were his writings and philosphies inspired by God's spirit, like the Bible writers, who were very clear about the subject*)

*: as mentioned before, Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. In direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (soul) as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.

“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.

“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”—Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246.

“The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556.

“You certainly will not die.”—Satan at Genesis 3:4. He's been modifying it to make it more palatable for his victims in Babylon the Great. Now it's basically 'the real 'you' won't die and death is just a passage to another kind of life' (as spirit usually, but in other parts of Babylon the Great the teaching of reincarnation is tied into this concept as well).

a reply to: whereislogic

Originally posted by Joecroft
Why would God have two different rules for Heavenly and Earthly in regards to receiving the Spirit…

Originally posted by whereislogic
He doesn't. Try not to conflate the concept of being 'born again', with receiving God's holy spirit (God's active force), which is only a component, that is not exclusive to those that are born again.

Receiving the Holy Spirit is what makes a person born again…hence the phrase to be “Born of Spirit…” used in the verses John 3:5-6…

John 3:5-6
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

It’s not a component; I mean why do you think they call it the Holy Spirit…it’s because it’s an actual spiritual thing… I mean look at all the clues…The Holy Spirit is received, it brings spiritual gifts, and then cleanses you on the inside…That cleansing makes you become a new person…this is exactly where the phrases “Born anew” and “Born Again”…stem from…

You’re just not looking at it in the right way…and you’re clouded by your own religious perspective…

- JC

a reply to: DeathSlayer

TextCan a person’s name be erased from the Book of Life?

Yes --
Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Free will is the answer. If you live long enough you will eventually change your mind about a lot issues.. Even preachers that were on fire for Jesus have become atheists. Jesus tells us that we must overcome being double minded. Then the matter of judgment comes into play.
That is the final answer of whether our names are in that book of life.

Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Why would One need saving if He or She is free?

To ask for deliverance is to accept enslavement.

What do you need to be saved from? Your Self !?

a reply to: iammrhappy86

Text Why would One need saving if He or She is free? To ask for deliverance is to accept enslavement. What do you need to be saved from? Your Self !?

You do not need saving if you don"t want saving. That is the free part. If you don't want deliverance from any habit in life then you are free to continue those habits but you are sill enslaved to obey the rules of the culture you live in. Of course you can break those rules but then that is the free part also and it comes with a threat of punishment. Actually I don't need to be saved from anything that i don't want to be saved from. I don't understand what you mean by being saved from "Your self" ?

When you are about to die you will understand it a little more.