Shroedingers Vaccine... it's all becoming laughable beyond belief.

As we are writing.

The Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, just posted an article 1.5 hours ago about the Astrazeneca vaccine.

So far they believe it has something to do with an immune response in the people experienced the clots.
Again mentioning the platelets and calling it "atypical" in relation to otherwise known clots from lifestyle or fx. birthcontrol (some women overhere started asking why the vaccine was getting more attention than birthcontrol clots).

They are particularly concerned about what kind of immune response is taking place that would cause this.

a reply to: flice

Yes. I said they are trying to understand what the cause is.

a reply to: flice

Like everything, it's not black and white. It comes down to a personal level for us to self navigate.

The vaccines (specific some more than others) are probably a godsend for some, and unnecessary for others.

Look at the flu shots... Their efficacy changes from year to year, and often, people will have side effects in the immediate days to follow.

We could all probably go round and round, but the key takeaway is its not black and white... And people have an obsession with absolutes. We're winging it, plain and simple. If you have health conditions that could make COVID life threatening, but the risk of serious complications from the vaccine for you is marginal, easy choice. :idea

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: flice

Like everything, it's not black and white. It comes down to a personal level for us to self navigate.

The vaccines (specific ones more than others) are probably a godsend for some, and unnecessary for others.

Look at the flu shots... Their efficacy changes from year to year, and often, people will have side effects in the immediate days to follow.

We could all probably go round and round, but the key takeaway is its not black and white... And people have an obsession with absolutes. We're winging it, plain and simple. If you have health conditions that could make COVID life threatening, but the risk of serious complications from the vaccine for you is marginal, easy choice.

I completely agree with that... but governments dont.

A vaccine passport is an absolute.

originally posted by: flice

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: flice

Like everything, it's not black and white. It comes down to a personal level for us to self navigate.

The vaccines (specific ones more than others) are probably a godsend for some, and unnecessary for others.

Look at the flu shots... Their efficacy changes from year to year, and often, people will have side effects in the immediate days to follow.

We could all probably go round and round, but the key takeaway is its not black and white... And people have an obsession with absolutes. We're winging it, plain and simple. If you have health conditions that could make COVID life threatening, but the risk of serious complications from the vaccine for you is marginal, easy choice.

I completely agree with that... but governments dont.

A vaccine passport is an absolute.

I'm not fond of a vaccine passport past optionality.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Me neither. Not for general commerce. I think masking and social distancing are acceptable in that context.

The CDC recently changed their recommendations for air travel. They now say that the requirements for pre-travel testing (or in lieu of that, quarantine on arrival) can be waived for those who are vaccinated. It's not a passport in the sense that it is required for travel but it does remove other requirements. So, it's your choice. Vaccination or pre-travel test. Assuming states employ the recommendations.

a reply to: flice

Flice, just want to say thank you, your scenario 4 is exactly exactly my reasoning on this also. Governments should be pushing for the elderly and infirm to get vaccinated absolutely, but for everyone else it should be left up to them, then they stop the enforced mask wearing, social distancing rules , business closures and get the world open again.

a reply to: doorhandle

Governments should be pushing for the elderly and infirm to get vaccinated absolutely, but for everyone else it should be left up to them

Are you saying that the elderly and infirm should be forced to accept a vaccination? It shouldn't be left up to them?

That can't be what you meant to say.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Tulpa

How about risk of "long COVID." How does that stack up?

How about risk of hospitalization? How does that stack up?

From my armchair warrior perspective, over the last 12 months I have seen and heard this a lot, lots of talk of imminent 'risk of this' 'risk of that', hospitals are 'on the verge of being overwhelmed', always on the verge, but never yet have been. The running total of deaths headline is mentioned every 5 mins on the news, but these deaths are are deaths 28d(ish) following a positive test but that quite important point is very rarely mentioned. How many people die at some point after having a cold or flu? I imagine quite a lot.

And again to me this 'long covid' could just be psychosomatic, people get bombarded about a pandemic in big red blood dripping headines on the news every day, with graphs and stats saying x deaths, soon as they get a cough - off to hospital they go. They come home feel tired and think 'oh my, now Iv got long covid!'. Sorry iv yet to align how I see this pandemic with how the media and politicians see it, and too me there is an agenda at play that we are not privy too.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: doorhandle

Governments should be pushing for the elderly and infirm to get vaccinated absolutely, but for everyone else it should be left up to them

Are you saying that the elderly and infirm should be forced to accept a vaccination? It shouldn't be left up to them?

That can't be what you meant to say.

No, of course not. They should be advised to have it, just as everyone is regardless of age or fitness are currently. My point is I would think it's better to just get those who really need it vaccinated as much as possible, the country doesn't need everyone vaccinated the resources that are pushing that could be better placed elsewhere.

a reply to: doorhandle

And again to me this 'long covid' could just be psychosomatic,

It could be. But that doesn't make the symptoms any less real. It's not the same thing as hypocondria. And some of those symptoms go well beyond feeling tired coming home from work.

a reply to: doorhandle

My point is I would think it's better to just get those who really need it vaccinated as much as possible

That's what's being done in the US. It took a couple of months for my turn to come up. It did two weeks ago and I signed up immediately.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Mandroid7

When you say the word "Morgellons" it make my eyes roll and my ears shut off.

Funny how Morgellons was the epidemic of the early 2000's that just vanished suddenly. Now its been revived again? LMAO

Nobody truly knows if it was something real. Obviously it was ridiculed everywhere. Those people who claimed it was some kind of real thing didn't think it was anything to laugh about.

Was it funny or laughable when the CIA dispersed Cadmium Sulfide on a city causing horrific birth defects?

Was it funny or laughable when the CIA infected black people with Syphilis?

Who knows what other weird and strange things our own government has experimented with on the public?

Have they ever been punished?

No they haven't been.

And not having ever been punished for their Class A felonies against American citizens, would they be emboldened to conduct even more exotic experiments on the public?

The answer to that is obvious.

The tainted blood scandal of the 90's wasn't funny either.
My cousin was one of the ones who died. He had a transfusion after a car accident. No one was punished in the UK for that.
It was procured in good faith so that was that.
It's why I'm sceptical about these things today.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: doorhandle

And again to me this 'long covid' could just be psychosomatic,

It could be. But that doesn't make the symptoms any less real. It's not the same thing as hypocondria. And some of those symptoms go well beyond feeling tired coming home from work.

I agree it doesn't, but someone should be looking at or taking into account the effects of these restrictions and media sensationalism are having on people and how it is effecting (affect?) the statistics. I'd be interested to see how things would be if there were completely zero media attention or government response to this pandemic and what then state the country or even world would be in. And it's now snowballed into a runaway phycosocial (think that's a made up word) madness that's infected the upper echelons of countries leaders, to me they are doing more harm than good with a lot of this, and be fair it's probably not even intentional. Like the world in the movie Brazil..it just ends up that way.

a reply to: doorhandle

I'd be interested to see how things would be if there were completely zero media attention or government response to this pandemic and what then state the country or even world would be in.

Yes.

It would also be interesting to see what it would have been like if my grandmother had had wheels.

But we'll never know.

originally posted by: Tulpa

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Mandroid7

When you say the word "Morgellons" it make my eyes roll and my ears shut off.

Funny how Morgellons was the epidemic of the early 2000's that just vanished suddenly. Now its been revived again? LMAO

Nobody truly knows if it was something real. Obviously it was ridiculed everywhere. Those people who claimed it was some kind of real thing didn't think it was anything to laugh about.

Was it funny or laughable when the CIA dispersed Cadmium Sulfide on a city causing horrific birth defects?

Was it funny or laughable when the CIA infected black people with Syphilis?

Who knows what other weird and strange things our own government has experimented with on the public?

Have they ever been punished?

No they haven't been.

And not having ever been punished for their Class A felonies against American citizens, would they be emboldened to conduct even more exotic experiments on the public?

The answer to that is obvious.

The tainted blood scandal of the 90's wasn't funny either.
My cousin was one of the ones who died. He had a transfusion after a car accident. No one was punished in the UK for that.
It was procured in good faith so that was that.
It's why I'm sceptical about these things today.

Truly sorry about your Cousin. The kinds of things happening today, and the things that have already happened in the past expose the truly naive state that the current public of the world are subject to, and also guilty for believing.. It's a real shame too. Concerned more for social acceptance than moral turpitude. Judgement of the world is happening now.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Seems a long time ago now.
The thing is, the science was right because he needed the transfusion. The doctors were right and they did all they could.
No one knew until much later that the problem came from the blood itself and many others became ill or died.
Hindsight is only available to those not affected.

a reply to: Tulpa

The blood could have been tested, could it not? But then, HIV had not been discovered long before. But then, Hep C was well known.

But not really similar to vaccines. No need to test each batch for pathogens.

a reply to: Phage

I know. I wasn't trying to associate the two. But everyone thought everything was fine back then.
Everyone involved seemingly did the right thing.
Safety was tightened up a lot after that but it didn't help those who suffered. Presumably, they all thought the blood was safe.
I think it was Caroline Flint who absolved the British of any Blame.
Not sure what happened to those in the states who sold us the blood.

It's just the main reason that I'm in no rush to get a comparatively new vaccine.

originally posted by: doorhandle
I'd be interested to see how things would be if there were completely zero media attention or government response to this pandemic and what then state the country or even world would be in. And it's now snowballed into a runaway phycosocial (think that's a made up word) madness that's infected the upper echelons of countries leaders, to me they are doing more harm than good with a lot of this, and be fair it's probably not even intentional. Like the world in the movie Brazil..it just ends up that way.

Forget the 'world in the movie Brazil'. In the real world, Brazil has run your experiment. Results to date: More than 325,000 died of covid, 66,570 deaths last month, over 80,000 new infections a day, hospitals overwhelmed, health system collapsing, mass burials, cemeteries full, old bodies exhumed to make way for new, government on point of collapse, population choosing to lock down for self- preservation, while government continues to urge them not to.

Recent report from right wing Telegraph newspaper
Recent report from left wing Guardian newspaper ...lest you think I'm giving this partisan spin.

Brazil’s coronavirus nightmare: ‘Bolsonaro is more isolated than ever’ Financial Times