How Do We Know the Vaccine's Working?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

If its been given that often should be really easy for you to reference then. Otherwise it's just a number you made up.

Stop pretending you care about the truth.

First they said 5% plus will die. A little later they said 2 - 3%. A little later they said "oopsies" we forgot to factor in that most ppl who get it dont even notice and never get tested (durr) its actually more like 1%. The paper below demonstrates that even this estimate was exxagerated 10 x due to bad math basically.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777

originally posted by: ScepticScot

If its been given that often should be really easy for you to reference then. Otherwise it's just a number you made up.

Stop pretending you care about the truth.

First they said 5% plus will die. A little later they said 2 - 3%. A little later they said "oopsies" we forgot to factor in that most ppl who get it dont even notice and never get tested (durr) its actually more like 1%. The paper below demonstrates that even this estimate was exxagerated 10 x due to bad math basically.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

That is not quite the way I read it. Can you please quote where it says that? The part I found says that at 1% it is 10x higher mortality than flu, but if the incorrect numbers of 2-3% were kept it would show a 20 - 30x fatality rate, which would be incorrect. I don't read where the 1% was exaggerated by 10x.

99% survival rate is still a long way from 99.9% claimed. In a large population that would be tens of thousands of more deaths.

A comparison of coronavirus and seasonal influenza CFRs may have been intended during Congressional testimony, but due to misclassifying an IFR as a CFR, the comparison turned out to be between an adjusted coronavirus CFR of 1% and an influenza IFR of 0.1%. Had the adjusted coronavirus mortality rate not been lowered from 3% to 1%, fatality comparisons of the coronavirus to the IFR of seasonal influenza would have increased from 10-times higher to 20- to 30-times higher.

a reply to: MrRCflying

Read the conclusion it is very clear.. the estimate presented was 1% and he states that was a 10x overestimate (ie. correct the math and its .1% not 1%).

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777

originally posted by: ScepticScot

If its been given that often should be really easy for you to reference then. Otherwise it's just a number you made up.

Stop pretending you care about the truth.

First they said 5% plus will die. A little later they said 2 - 3%. A little later they said "oopsies" we forgot to factor in that most ppl who get it dont even notice and never get tested (durr) its actually more like 1%. The paper below demonstrates that even this estimate was exxagerated 10 x due to bad math basically.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Your link is from May last year and amongst many other things is not a study of covid fatality rates.

Here is one from October showing an estimate of 1% fatality rate.

www.imperial.ac.uk...

Alternatively you could apply a bit of simple maths and work out what size the US population and how many people would need to be infected for a .1% survival rate to be accurate.

Seems everyone likes Numbers, After all it drove the EXPERIMENTAL Vaccine Narrrative

the totals shown here almost certainly represent an undercount of the true toll - You know them Governors still hiding numbers

Less than 1% of America’s population lives in long-term-care facilities, but as of March 4, 2021, this tiny fraction of the country accounts for 34% of US COVID-19 deaths.

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
a reply to: MrRCflying

Read the conclusion it is very clear.. the estimate presented was 1% and he states that was a 10x overestimate (ie. correct the math and its .1% not 1%).

OK, I see it. So mortality no higher than the seasonal flu.

This was one doctors research, with the help of a couple of others. I am in no position to claim correct or incorrect, but I would think that it would need to be peer reviewed. I am not sure if it has been or not.

I can say for certain that I personally know of 3 people that have died of covid, and 2 others my wife knew. Yes they, were all older, and had commodities. The number of people I have known of that have died from the flu, exactly zero.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Those estimates are based on fake and incomplete data.. most of the ppl reported as "dying from covid" did not.. they died with it.. and most ppl who get it never even notice.

originally posted by: MrRCflying
I can say for certain that I personally know of 3 people that have died of covid, and 2 others my wife knew.

No you cant actually... the vast majority of ppl in these data died WITH covid, not because of it.. the CDC has admitted this now.

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
a reply to: ScepticScot

Those estimates are based on fake and incomplete data.. most of the ppl reported as "dying from covid" did not.. they died with it.

What is your .1% survival rate based on if not the official data.

a reply to: ScepticScot

You have been played.. dont feel bad the whole world fell for it.

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777

originally posted by: MrRCflying
I can say for certain that I personally know of 3 people that have died of covid, and 2 others my wife knew.

No you cant actually... the vast majority of ppl in these data died WITH covid, not because of it.. the CDC has admitted this now.

Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "with, not of" thing.

NO one dies of Covid. But Covid can be the cause of death.

They had Covid. They had other problems. If the cause of death was a stroke, kidney failure, hart failure, whatever, the fact remains that covid is what put them over the top. Had they not contracted covid, there is a VERY high probability they would not have died at that time. To me, that makes covid the indirect means of death.

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
a reply to: ScepticScot

You have been played.. dont feel bad the whole world fell for it.

You didn't answer the question. If you believe official data is fake what is your survival rate based on?

a reply to: ScepticScot

The data is fake and incomplete in a way that it necessarily overestimates the deadliness of covid.. if they were attributimg obvious covid deaths to car crashes and cancer etc. and saying it wasnt covid, you might have a case to say "well maybe because the data is fake/incomplete it might even be underestimated" but that isnt what is happening...

The majority of what they are counting as "death caused by covid" were not deaths caused by covid.

Short answer is you will never know.

It's widely documented they classified as many deaths as possible due to COVID, regardless if that was the actual cause of death. Annual death rates per year didn't change. Just comparing the cause of death clearly shows what was shifted to COVID.

The same amount of elderly people will still die from old age, pneumonia, heart failure, COPD, strokes, etc etc. It just depends if they'll list COVID as the cause of death or the true cause of death.

originally posted by: MrRCflying

Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "with, not of" thing.

NO one dies of Covid. But Covid can be the cause of death.

They had Covid. They had other problems. If the cause of death was a stroke, kidney failure, hart failure, whatever, the fact remains that covid is what put them over the top. Had they not contracted covid, there is a VERY high probability they would not have died at that time. To me, that makes covid the indirect means of death.

Think on it a little more. Most ppl who get covid dont even notice.. just because they die of a heart attack while they have it doesnt mean it caused their death.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Short answer is you will never know.

It's widely documented they classified as many deaths as possible due to COVID, regardless if that was the actual cause of death. Annual death rates per year didn't change. Just comparing the cause of death clearly shows what was shifted to COVID.

The same amount of elderly people will still die from old age, pneumonia, heart failure, COPD, strokes, etc etc. It just depends if they'll list COVID as the cause of death or the true cause of death.

Incorrect. The CDC just yesterday posted the mortality rate from 2020. Total deaths in the US were up 15.9% over 2019.

During January–December 2020, the estimated 2020 age-adjusted death rate increased for the first time since 2017, with an increase of 15.9% compared with 2019, from 715.2 to 828.7 deaths per 100,000 population. COVID-19 was the underlying or a contributing cause of 377,883 deaths (91.5 deaths per 100,000).

CDC Link

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
a reply to: ScepticScot

The data is fake and incomplete in a way that it necessarily overestimates the deadliness of covid.. if they were attributimg obvious covid deaths to car crashes and cancer etc. and saying it wasnt covid, you might have a case to say "well maybe because the data is fake/incomplete it might even be underestimated" but that isnt what is happening...

The majority of what they are counting as "death caused by covid" were not deaths caused by covid.

The death count includes deaths where covid is listed as a cause of death. It may not be the only factor but it was certainly a reason they died. We can also see from the excess deaths figure that something has cause a marked increase in deaths over the same period as the pandemic.

Also you still haven't answered where you get the .1% figure from if not official data.

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777

originally posted by: MrRCflying

Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "with, not of" thing.

NO one dies of Covid. But Covid can be the cause of death.

They had Covid. They had other problems. If the cause of death was a stroke, kidney failure, hart failure, whatever, the fact remains that covid is what put them over the top. Had they not contracted covid, there is a VERY high probability they would not have died at that time. To me, that makes covid the indirect means of death.

Think on it a little more. Most ppl who get covid dont even notice.. just because they die of a heart attack while they have it doesnt mean it caused their death.

OK, tell me. My aunt who was in the hospital for 3 weeks, on a ventilator for two. Her kidneys shut down, followed by other organs, and sadly passed away last April.

Tell me, go ahead, tell me her kidneys and other organs would have shut down without Covid. Covid was the underlying factor to cause her death.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
a reply to: ScepticScot

The data is fake and incomplete in a way that it necessarily overestimates the deadliness of covid.. if they were attributimg obvious covid deaths to car crashes and cancer etc. and saying it wasnt covid, you might have a case to say "well maybe because the data is fake/incomplete it might even be underestimated" but that isnt what is happening...

The majority of what they are counting as "death caused by covid" were not deaths caused by covid.

The death count includes deaths where covid is listed as a cause of death. It may not be the only factor but it was certainly a reason they died. We can also see from the excess deaths figure that something has cause a marked increase in deaths over the same period as the pandemic.

Also you still haven't answered where you get the .1% figure from if not official data.

The .1% estimate is based on official data (and that official data is inaccurate and incomplete in a way that makes overestimating the deadliness of covid inevitable). Even .1% is probably an exaggeration.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
a reply to: ScepticScot

The data is fake and incomplete in a way that it necessarily overestimates the deadliness of covid.. if they were attributimg obvious covid deaths to car crashes and cancer etc. and saying it wasnt covid, you might have a case to say "well maybe because the data is fake/incomplete it might even be underestimated" but that isnt what is happening...

The majority of what they are counting as "death caused by covid" were not deaths caused by covid.

The death count includes deaths where covid is listed as a cause of death. It may not be the only factor but it was certainly a reason they died. We can also see from the excess deaths figure that something has cause a marked increase in deaths over the same period as the pandemic.

Also you still haven't answered where you get the .1% figure from if not official data.

As I pointed out above. CDC mortality numbers from 2020 were 15.9% higher than in 2019. If no one is dying of covid, there must be a heck of a lot more traffic accidents or something. The .1% figure just makes no sense, based on the death rate increase alone.