Where Cyberpunk went wrong and how to fix it

For the most part I think Cyberpunk is a great game, there's really only a few things they got wrong which have caused an enormous amount of criticism and greatly damaged CDPR's company reputation. Bethesda has always been my favorite game development company, but after what happened with Fallout 76 I lost some respect for them and CDPR became my new favorite after playing The Witcher 3 because the story telling was so well done. So after playing around 20 hours of Cyberpunk on PC I wrote the following post defending the game:

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I find it hard to feel sympathy for people who bought this game on a last gen console and then complain about the graphics. The bugs I can understand being annoyed about, but lets be fair, this is one of the most complex open world games ever made, and compared to other similar games from companies like Bethesda I'd say the bugs are relatively minor. As for the graphics, I'm playing on PC using a GTX 1080 which isn't that great these days, but I can still run on ultra settings without any noticeable frame rate drops. Considering Cyberpunk looks far better than almost all other games I own and the world is so dense, I find it very impressive that it doesn't absolutely destroy my 1080, and other games with much worse graphics put more strain on my 1080. That's a testament to how well Cyberpunk is optimized on PC

After playing many more hours of this game my opinion on the matter has somewhat changed and I believe Cyberpunk will fail to reach any kind of true redemption unless CDPR is willing to take the necessary steps. A large portion of the controversy could have been completely avoided simply by not releasing one of the most complex games ever made onto last gen consoles but that would be giving up a lot of profits. Having said that, I have played the game on a last gen console and it's definitely playable. The far more serious issue for me are all the bugs.

The more you play Cyberpunk the more obvious it becomes that they ran out of time and they tested the early missions a lot more than later ones, creating the appearance of reasonable stability until you play more than 20-30 hours. The bugs definitely aren't "relatively minor" as I claimed earlier, there's a lot of major bugs that severely break immersion and game-play. The dialog in particular is very broken in many later missions. I've even seen a few bugs in the UI and inventory screen, like my items not being displayed properly or weapons becoming invisible.

Some bugs come from unforeseen situations caused by cyberware, but even without cyberware some of the scripting for missions is easily broken by doing things the developers didn't expect but probably should have. I expected some bugs because I understand how complex Cyberpunk is but I didn't expect quite so many bugs in a AAA game made by one of the most respected game development companies. The Witcher 3 has very few bugs from my experience playing it but on the other hand it is significantly less complex in both world design and game mechanics.

The cyberware and modding systems add a lot of complexity, your body can be modded with cyberware and nearly all clothes and weapons can be modded, and some of those mods can be modded with sub-mods. The missions and character interactions throughout the story are very intricate and there's a lot which can go wrong if the developers don't account for all the weird things a player might do during a mission. However it's still very clear from past CDPR games that they have the capacity to make quality games, so the bugginess of Cyberpunk is still unusual to me.

The only other major issue I can see is the lack of advanced AI, especially when it comes to cops. The police will never pursue you in cars, they will simply appear nearby you and start shooting at you. They attempted to remedy this issue in the most recent patch by increasing the spawn distance for police but that isn't really a "true" fix for this problem. At least half a dozen games have implemented cops and car chases going back decades, all CDPR needs to do is copy those long established design solutions.

In fact a large portion of the code and AI required to make this happen already exists because modders are implementing police chases using the AI systems already built into the game. I understand that things like pathfinding are much more demanding in a highly dense city like Night City, but it's certainly an achievable task and if CDPR doesn't see this as an important goal then they need to re-assess their plans. Even if it's something that will only work on PC and new gen consoles it's still absolutely worth doing because that's where the future of Cyberpunk will be.

Here's a potential solution I would offer; have police cars driving around the city, maybe a few police cars assigned to each area of the city, so that they can respond when the player becomes wanted. This will provide a realistic response time and ensure that they come from a location which makes sense. Cops could also randomly spawn among the crowd so they don't always need to be spawned out of thin air. The core issue isn't particularly how far away cops spawn, it's more about the player not seeing them spawn and them coming from a realistic location.

One other thing I really feel breaks immersion is the 2D car sprites they use for cars at a distance. It looks absolutely terrible on a straight road out in the desert because you see the cars disappearing as you get close to them, and the 2D sprites just don't blend in with the highly detailed 3D world. It can work well when looking at the city from a distance, especially at night when you see all the car headlights moving around, but that's about the only time it works. Instead, low-poly meshes should be used for cars at a distance and they shouldn't vanish as you get close.

That or just remove the 2D spites in places where it looks bad because I honestly would rather that. Having said all that, I still think Cyberpunk did a lot of things right, especially the world design and story telling aspects of the game. Where it mostly fails is the code holding it all together, and I know that CDPR doesn't like to place any blame onto their employees because it's ultimately the leadership which determines how the final game will look and play, but I think they really need to look at the reasons why the quality of the code isn't as expected and make some hard choices.

I honestly haven't been able to finish, not because I don't want to, but because I got called back into the office and finding chunks of child free time are vanishingly rare. I got to the start of Act III - the part where it says "Finish up all your business because this is the end if you proceed from here."

I wasn't having too much trouble navigating around the bugs which to that point had been mostly cosmetic to me.

My problem is that I feel like I must be missing a ton because I have what feels like an entire car lot offered up for sale to me, and yet I can't afford it ... same with clothing ... same with weapons .... same with mods ... same with everything else. I'm not sure where I'm missing the money because there are only a few things I'm not running around pursuing. And I feel like there are all these fixers who haven't got time to fix me up with stuff except more cars I can't afford, even though my street cred is through the roof.

Not sure where I went wrong with all that.

I do agree about the console bit, but after years of consoles getting catered to while PC players got the shaft with crap ports ... I can't say I feel horrible that they finally get to feel some of the pain we experience. Sucks when you get a game not optimized to your system that plays all broken.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah it definitely is a bit of a grind but it's probably not much worse than GTA V, I was able to get most of the cars I wanted after about 60-70 hours, apart from those really expensive super cars.

I do agree about the console bit, but after years of consoles getting catered to while PC players got the shaft with crap ports ... I can't say I feel horrible that they finally get to feel some of the pain we experience. Sucks when you get a game not optimized to your system that plays all broken.

It kind of annoys me because the older consoles often force devs to cut a lot of content or implement really complex streaming and LoD systems, which can work well, but in the case of Cyberpunk it was poorly implemented and only seems to get worse with each patch. It's basically increasing visual issues to squeeze out more performance.

1) Don't rush games just to beat competitors.
2) Folks are having issues with the newer AMD and Nvidia cards (mostly dips in performance due to drivers)
3) Folks dont update UEFI , chipset drivers at all . Most don't even know what those are.But still complain .
4) They got what CDPR promised (top of the line game as is all CDPR releases) , yet want more .

Best answer : Some folks had rather play phone games .

And Stone Cold Goth said so.

World seems congested (fine) but also claustrophobic. Like the view out of the cars seems weird. The corridors seem small. Cant really put my finger on it, just seems crammed. I'll try again in a month or two.

Forgetting the bugs and admitting that's it's pretty and has huge potential, I think it's disappointing. It's story is too constraining and linear. It just doesn't have the immersion, or complexity of a living world as it should. Decisions should have more effects in the greater game. It really feels like it's missing 2/3rds.

The cyber wear feels half finished. There's no infrared with your cyber eyes to see in the dark, for instance... plus, a higher level flying car you could control would be interesting.

I lost interest after a first play through and just haven't gone back. Bethesda's older games still rule.

Maybe there will be extensive DLCs or help in the future. Hope so, as I really wanted to like it and wanted a break from this world for a few weeks.

Here's a potential solution I would offer; have police cars driving around the city, maybe a few police cars assigned to each area of the city, so that they can respond when the player becomes wanted. This will provide a realistic response time and ensure that they come from a location which makes sense. 

The thing is; there is no reason to commit crime. Killing civilians is very boring and stealing cars are pointless. There is no item stealing or robberies.

Police serve as a simple immersion aspect that was never fully realized. Because the game is years away from being like GTA or skyrim.

People expected too much. Possibly CDPR marketed falsely.

Cyberpunk is smooth with main and side missions, but the open world is far too flawed to be fixed.
CDPR was too ambitious. Cyberpunk should of had limited open world like Deus Ex.

Great open worlds with small teams can exist. Take Kingdome come: deliverance or outer wilds for example. But obviously cdpr was too ambitious for their own good.

a reply to: blueman12

What's the point to robberies though?

I get some people just want to be rat bastards all the time when they play these games, but I've never really understood why. In this game, half the stuff you're asked to do has you being just that for various reasons in the various jobs, so what's the point to running around committing random street crime just 'cause?

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I played it through, star to finish several time's.

Here is a list of what I think went wrong.

No third person camera though mod makers have tried and failed to fix that the third person view of the player character has all kind of things wrong with it.

No AI, other than scripted enemy's most NPC's are dumber than an old 8 bit packman ghost.

Too short a story line, you have to do all the side quests you can find just to make the playthrough last and once they are done they are done so no replay ability in them.

Poor vehicle handing especially if using a keyboard and mouse.

Graphical glitches and an unfinished LOD which you see in some parts of the Badlands looking at the distant mountains.

I could go on and on and on.

That said there are some great mod's and in time someone in the modding community will fix it, we will get random respawning quests, we will get proper third person camera, we will get that missing multi player (though that is not my sticking point as I prefer a good single player game), and or course better AI, collision avoidance and the lied about complete daily routine and AI that the NPC's were supposed to have.

Also check out the Nexus for mod's like the blade runner retexture and weather mod's to make the game feel different.

Personally my opinion of CDPR is they scammed us big time and lied out of there nether regions.

And I am thankful of the backlash and legal cases as it will tell game publishers that the consumer has had enough, if a product is not fit for release it should be treated the same as any other product and they should face consumer watchdog legal action, fines and other punitive measures for ripping the public off.

It's a mediocre game in my opinion in it's current state, I have GTA 5 as well and while I would like to take the city from Cyberpunk GTA 5 is a far superior game on all count's, I like the world design and the 2000AD (Judge Dredd) inspired mega-block's etc as well as the feel of the cyberpunk world but GTA has such a large world by comparison and so many town's outside the main city.

There are mods on the Nexus that also give you better vehicle handling etc, be careful about adding mod's as some can crash your game but if you know what you are doing plenty now available.
www.nexusmods.com...

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, i meant any crime to justify police. Police are pointless because there is no reason to commit any crime.

Also, don't bother about the people who sell you cars. Or expensive mods. IMO, grinding for them ruins the flow and fun of the story. Which is really the best part, as the open world experience is not good.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: blueman12

What's the point to robberies though?

I get some people just want to be rat bastards all the time when they play these games, but I've never really understood why. In this game, half the stuff you're asked to do has you being just that for various reasons in the various jobs, so what's the point to running around committing random street crime just 'cause?

You're telling me you've never played a GTA game and found yourself getting sidetracked for an hour or two running around the beach with a kitana or chainsaw slicing sunbathers in half just for the mindless hell of it?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: blueman12

What's the point to robberies though?

I get some people just want to be rat bastards all the time when they play these games, but I've never really understood why. In this game, half the stuff you're asked to do has you being just that for various reasons in the various jobs, so what's the point to running around committing random street crime just 'cause?

You're telling me you've never played a GTA game and found yourself getting sidetracked for an hour or two running around the beach with a kitana or chainsaw slicing sunbathers in half just for the mindless hell of it?

I don't own any of the GTA games for that reason. I'm just not into that kind of thing. I've tried playing like a rat bastard and I just feel wrong doing it.

a reply to: ketsuko

Ahhh the bane of Role player games, it is sometimes hard to play the bad guy but it can also be very, very funny.

Sometimes you just want to see what the bad outcome will be or play a lunatic but I know exactly what you mean, it is kind of hard wired that we want to be the good guy, on the side of the people etc and that is why RPG's which add morally ambiguous quests that do not allow you to be purely good or purely evil are perhaps the best.

Actually very old, ropey graphic's and a deliberately morally ambiguous tale but a good one, this is like 20 odd years old now but still a great game if you can put up with poor graphic's and a badly implemented in game camera as well as being stuck in the one role from the start that of a Crusader Knight by the name of Christof Romuald.

Also plays differently to modern games with no first person, team mechanic's were you recruit followers and can control them while they are part of your team etc.



Basically your main character is a Crusader whom starts the game in medieval Prague a town over run by the paranormal and among those creatures are the vampire, various clans of vampires stalk the night and not all are totally evil but one definitely is.

While recovering from injury's in a convent you fall in love with your nurse a beautiful (we have to take there word for that with the boxy graphic's) nun and fight yourself for control but of course she has also fallen in love with your big strapping Viking crusader like warrior character.

Cue a bishop that also want's her, bishop's back then were a bit like that in reality as well and a mission meant to get you killed but instead you defeat a powerful vampire master and gain the attention of his clan's (the vampires are organized by clan and in the middle of an endless civil war between some of those clan's) enemy's including an ancient vampire princess and her Roman General (ancient vampires and he seems to like his ancient armour) body guard, she sneaks into your room and gives you a Hickey after giving you a smile you will never forget which turns you into an unwilling vampire, cue your search for redemption now you see yourself as having been cursed to be among the rank's of damned.

As a fledgling of Vampire society you have to learn the ropes, recruit allies and eventually get caught up in a rebellion that see's the end of the vampire prince who rules the city, you are buried alive as the castle collapses around you.

Cue sometime in what may be the 1970's or 80's and you are dug up and shipped to London by a leader of a vampire hunting secret society called the Society of Leopold whose leader unbeknown to them is himself a vampire having misguidedly turned himself by drinking the blood of vampires in order to gain the strength to kill them, you do not have any chance to form an alliance as he only want's your blood, you are now an elder, older than most vampires still around at that time, you set out to find your place in this new world, in time you eventually find your way to the US and find out that your love was also turned into a vampire, it is not not just about your redemption but hers, you can choose speech check's and if your stats are high enough save her entering the eternal twilight of a pair of thousand year old vampire lovers.

Corny but it plays (or since I am going by memory played and I am not sure it will stand up to todays games) better than I make it sound.

Still a far better story than Bloodlines and also better than any movie I have seen for a long time.
Back then this was about average CGI for games at that time.

And you know it's still a better game than Cyberpunk 2077 in my opinion, I might just dig out the old CD, find some patches somewhere online and any HD mod's that may have been made and give it another whirl I have not played it since, well 20 years or so.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Oh, I get moral ambiguity, and I've played Vampire tabletop.

I'm fine with that ... so long as there are reasons for it. I need compelling story reasons to go out and slice a sunbather in half with a chainsaw. If I have a true and compelling need to do it and there's a story for it, then I'm good to go. I'm just talking about walking around and shooting that guy on the corner because I don't like his hat. Or mowing down a pack of pedestrians on the street because ... why not? That's what feels sort of wrong.

Nah, while I usually play pretty reliably straight characters, some of my favorite turns are on the dark side. I played a tabletop RPG character where I was a "bard" as far as the table knew. Actually, I was an assassin. I knocked one of the party off with poison, and they never figured that one out. I was always the straight one, you see. The most hilarious part was that I did reveal that I could do "special jobs" to one of the party who was technically in charge and an aristocrat, but he completely didn't understand what I was saying because ... I was the straight one and I was a "bard". I dropped character and flat out told him what I was, and he *still* didn't get it. Nice guy, but thick.

a reply to: canucks555

World seems congested (fine) but also claustrophobic.

It is supposed to feel that way due to the history of the city and the way it was built. I really like it actually, if they got anything right it was the world design imo. Plus you also have the Badlands which are much more open.

a reply to: Baddogma

It's story is too constraining and linear. It just doesn't have the immersion, or complexity of a living world as it should. Decisions should have more effects in the greater game.

I agree the RPG aspects and story line isn't as detailed as I was expecting, but I don't care too much about that because the story is still quite good and if they made it any more complicated the game would be even more buggy.

a reply to: blueman12

The thing is; there is no reason to commit crime. Killing civilians is very boring and stealing cars are pointless. There is no item stealing or robberies.

This is true to a certain extent, but a large part of the game does revolve around committing crimes and a more realistic police response system would just add some extra immersion and make the city feel more alive. I do my best to avoid breaking the law but in the situations where I do it would be nice to have a realistic police response. More importantly, it's one of the major flaws that a lot of critics are honing in on, so it would be wise for CDPR to improve that aspect of the game.

a reply to: LABTECH767

No third person camera though mod makers have tried and failed to fix that the third person view of the player character has all kind of things wrong with it.

I don't really think this is a huge issue because it's the type of game which is more suited to 1st person. It would be a nice feature to have but I can live without it.

No AI, other than scripted enemy's most NPC's are dumber than an old 8 bit packman ghost.

This is definitely one of the more important issues, another thing that annoys me is how cars will stop forever if your car is in their way by even a nano-meter. There's a lot of things I would have expected to see that aren't in Cyberpunk, part of it is due to time constraints and part of it is due to limitations on last gen consoles.

Too short a story line, you have to do all the side quests you can find just to make the playthrough last and once they are done they are done so no replay ability in them.

I don't really think there is a lack of content when you consider all the side quests. I'm willing to forgive them for the main story being fairly short because I never finish games with really long stories. Future DLC could also expand the story so it's not a big issue for me.

Poor vehicle handing especially if using a keyboard and mouse.

This isn't really an issue for me either since there are mods which can make the handling a lot smoother and from what I read the last patch added a driving sensitivity slider.

Graphical glitches and an unfinished LOD which you see in some parts of the Badlands looking at the distant mountains.

The streaming issues (suddenly appearing and vanishing objects and NPC's) really do need to be fixed because it often destroys the otherwise highly immersive city. What annoys me most though is that it shouldn't be such a hard thing to get right, it's been done many times before and isn't rocket science... which is why I'm forced to ask why the coders at CDPR are unable to implement some of these things.

The other thing I forgot to mention in my opening post is the lack of customization when it comes to cars and your home. You can't even change the paint job on your car which is pretty stupid. Also, it doesn't make much sense that you still live in a tiny apartment when you own millionaires of dollars in cars. They designed an entire city, they should have created at least one player home you can buy with enough money.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I want coordinating outfits. I feel like a third rate vagabond in the mismatched stuff that drops by the time you mix and match to optimize stuff. There should be a way to look decent without wearing shimmery MC Hammer pants, a samurai helmet and some kind of hooker top all at once ... oh and puffy rain boots.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
No third person camera though mod makers have tried and failed to fix that the third person view of the player character has all kind of things wrong with it.

JB 3rd Person mod seems to be stable and works well.