Scientific questions to ask a dead person & why other beings can exist beyond what we see

a reply to: elysiumfire

"Qualia" as in the philosophical term of Lewis?

Once you understand mind to be the quale experience of consciousness, then you are able to see the illusory aspect of mind.

One can also see the astral/mental world of man in terms of white lies and black lies, what is lays between.

Daemons to the left,
Angels to the right,
Walk the middle path.

'Daemons' being black lies and 'Angels' being white lies; the philosophical infrastructure in which man lives. I borrowed 'daemons' and 'angels' from a western philosophy as the words are apt in a mechanical sense of how they work.

However, if I ask a deceased friend the answer is simpler; "We know who we are" if I get the gist of it correctly.

Science does science things, and faith does faith things. Science is excellent at determining the relationships between things as long as there is enough data to find a correlation.

When science first began, surprisingly not long ago, it was generally looked at as a way to help prove the intricate and complex Glory of God (however you want to define it). And I would suggest that most scientists still believe in some kind of "supernatural" force at work in the universe. Issac Newton spend a hell of a lot more time trying to decode the Bible and create a Philosopher's Stone than he did working on gravity. (He wasn't able to do either, so that should tell you something.)

But just a look around will tell you that there are a lot of unanswered questions about the universe, particularly when it comes to the "universal constants." Neither science nor faith has all the answers, but they both like to think that with a lot more effort everything can be figured out. Which is wrong, but hey. Can't blame them for trying.

Perhaps it is as Flyingclaydisk says:

The problem / challenge (depending on how you look at it) is...in order to prove the things you describe you first have to prove a whole lot of other things which are far less pleasant, things mankind will have a pretty strong aversion to accepting. One of these things is the absolute insignificance of mankind in the whole scheme of things. It's a red pill / blue pill thing, but on a scale orders of magnitude beyond that which any movie could ever characterize. In fact, I believe that the human mind will self destruct before it gets anywhere close to understanding these things. In other words, science is only as advanced as the human mind can comprehend, not because we're limited by it, but rather because it represents a rubicon we are mentally unwilling to cross.

". . . on a scale orders of magnitude beyond that which any movie could ever characterize."

The Post Office is a complicated government department far bigger than I can encompass mentally. Yet all I really need to know is how to post a letter and open my household post box on the front fence.

Most folks are probably like that with the 'big things' in life. I am.

And really whatever the case, the question for me is; What can I do with this?

Perhaps it is as Blue Shift says:

But just a look around will tell you that there are a lot of unanswered questions about the universe, particularly when it comes to the "universal constants." Neither science nor faith has all the answers, but they both like to think that with a lot more effort everything can be figured out. Which is wrong, but hey. Can't blame them for trying.

Perhaps it is only Theologians and Scientists who really care about finding the final analysis.

Whatever the case; one thing is certain in my mind, and that is there are few answers to be found in the land of the deceased.

If you ask the (deceased) English Gentry, they appear with wrists bound and mouths gagged. Very little will come from them. I say this because one time my family enquired about an old family estate in Ireland from the early 1900s. The mansion still has a (deceased) ancestor there who paints landscapes in the room with the large windows overlooking extensive gardens and a lake. He wouldn't engage any questions except one.

What do you do with your paintings when they are finished?

In answer, he picked up his landscape and placed it upon my aunt's easel.

From that, it is not hard to understand he likes to inspire living artists. That was the only answer to anything that came from that.

In all the years I have dealt with the deceased, the Fae-folk, and so on, very few answers have been forthcoming about anything. To simply get an idea one has to do the hard slog and detective work. Then one begins to understand the other worlds and how they work.

Certain small beings who look like yellow greys are the exception, they answer a lot of things for me. Yet I am not going to be a fountain of answers on the subject of physics for instance. I tried to understand how they work with matter and one tried to show me. The stumbling block was my lack of knowledge of physics.

I have a 1970s high school understanding of particle physics. The Being suggested; "What is left when you take away the particles?" That is where the Being wanted me to focus to explain how they disassemble and reassemble matter. I have no clue whatsoever, and my physics lesson stopped there.

The Fae will teach you how to do things sometimes, if they like you, or more so, that you have done them a kindness in the past. Deceased humans on the other hand generally have motivations of their own when they interact with the living. Keeping alive the illusions is my cynical thought.

There is also the assumption that after death people will know more than they did in life. Not necessarily so from my experience.

NobodySpecial268:

"Qualia" as in the philosophical term of Lewis?

Qualia (singular quale), as in the subjective experience of a thing giving rise to a simultaneous qualitative 'sensation' of it. I use the philosophical term because it best describes that which we experience as the intrinsic properties of things by which we are able to experience the world.

I stated, that which we call mind is nothing more than the quale sensation of being conscious. There is no soul, there is no spirit, there is no afterlife. Ask yourself the question, without a body providing the mechanisms of energy production for consciousness to arise in it, how is it possible for the illusory soul or spirit to have or retain consciousness? What is the power source for the alleged soul or spirit without a body?

a reply to: elysiumfire

Abstract thought is beyond me in many ways, so apologies for my being out of touch with philosophies. I can draw parallels with what I have come to realise myself.

I stated, that which we call mind is nothing more than the quale sensation of being conscious.

.

I can follow that in a way. Definitions of 'mind' vary.

There is no soul, there is no spirit, there is no afterlife.

The accepted Christian definition of soul is something I have not come across as described. So that remains an unknown to me. If you are defining spirit from the same dictionary, well, same again.

However, the afterlife though only a descriptive term of a non-physical state that follows a state of being physically alive is something I have seen for myself.

The 'Alice' in my avatar represents a real girl who died some time ago. She tells me I was the first thing she saw immediately after her life ended. She still keeps me company after all these years, so I cannot say there is no existence after physical death. Lots of other people out there too.

Ask yourself the question, without a body providing the mechanisms of energy production for consciousness to arise in it, how is it possible for the illusory soul or spirit to have or retain consciousness?

Is that a Christian definition of soul and spirit?

It sounds like you're saying consciousness is solely an effect of organic physical processes such as metabolism. I have a memory of a different life where one was shot in the back fatally. Felt an thump and the 'mind' turned 'inside out', inverted may be a way to say it. 'Alice' says it was the same for her ('Alice' is watching my thoughts as I write).

I haven't seen much of the immediate time following death. Usually it is a few days later when the memories begin to return to the deceased. Generally in order of importance.

What is the power source for the alleged soul or spirit without a body?

I often wonder that myself, and how you put the question is succinct.

I can only offer opinion based on observation: It is not from 'above'.

That is observable in the astral/aetheric after death. Sometimes the aetheric is retained attached to the astral under certain unfortunate circumstances. Without a physical body the aetheric body tends to disappear. However, there are plenty of aetheric/astral Beings who exist without a physical source of metabolism.

I know there are lots of aetheric shells (eleven?) that come with the earth, one is surprisingly a human aether. The others planetary and other 'species'. So humans are not native here; the human aetheric was "laid" by something or other (dunno what).

Whether the planetary aethers can be called "power source" I do not know. The Fae-folk say it is so, I haven't observed how it works myself. Though I do understand that without the particular aetheric humans will not thrive in an environment for long. I understand the children will not do well.

Interesting stuff to question like this. Usually I don't think these things.

I understand what you're saying elysiumfire, I find it difficult to disagree completely. However, there seems to be something of an inversion of consciousness at death.

For some odd reason the infinity symbol comes to mind; ∞. It gives a sense of inversion.

My father passed almost 3 years ago now. I hope there is another dimension where he is still alive, and with an alternate version of me. If I knew that, it would help heal the hurt I have felt over the past 3 years.

a reply to: MrRCflying

Dunno if this helps any MrRCflying, and it is all I can say really.

When my mom passed away, it was a few days later that I 'saw' her. She was sitting up in a bed with a few (deceased) family members at the bedside. She looked all of sixteen years of age.

She was excitedly telling them about how she was a soloist in the ballet company. That was when she was sixteen years of age.

She saw me watching, wondered, yet did not know who I was.

The reason she did not know who I was is simple; In her life, I was not born until a few years later at around the age of eighteen years. The memories return in order of most important first. One can also say; the desire that brought her to this world was to be a star in the ballet; the most important thing for her.

Over the next few weeks her memories returned. She visited me while I lived in her former home tidying up her affairs; when she remembered who I was in her life.

- - - - - - -

Edit to add: The above scenario seems to be the usual for the European descended folks. I don't know anything about the Asiatic and other races. My speciality is the western kids who fall between the cracks and get lost.

originally posted by: Illumimasontruth
Science will never provide your answers to the spiritual realms.

Never is a long time. Either one (or both) of the conditions would need to change: "here" and "now". Maybe later all will be revealed, or maybe now those who have departed their earthly body have access to unlimited scientific proof. I think the apostles were given ample scientific proofs, the problem was the ability to record and express in terms of data for everyone else. Those who don't know God, have to at least initially rely upon testimony from either them or someone they know unless they go right to the source. We currently don't have the luxury of the apostle's proof, but it seems that God is able to 1.) Provide proof and 2.) Doesn't do so for everyone all of the time. The curious question arises as to why that is. Often, He expects us to meet Him at least part way, to become seekers of truth first.

Nice post and pardon the parsing but doing so for a question:

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
We can't really "see" below the atomic level, but science gives us a reasonably clear picture of what's there. We can't see a neutron, but we know the average number of neutrons in a cobalt atom.

We can't really "see" distant planets even with our best telescopes, but science and math give us a good idea of their mass, chemical composition, and orbits.

What we "see" is inherently limited because our eyes can only detect photons in a limited frequency band. There are an infinite number of frequencies we can't see. We can still detect and use some of them, though.

Would you say then that science require a measure of faith?

a reply to: saint4God
By saying never I meant not in this lifetime.

I won't even try sounding smart with a bunch of distracting nonsensical science that takes far more faith to believe than the ancient infallible text I believe every word of. That book does say that all things will be revealed.

As for finding God, he is a spirit being who cannot be found. We are born spiritually dead and he has to reveal himself to us. We are born with a great deal written into us, and have undeniable signs of highly intelligent design and planning everywhere we look.

I firmly believe every sincere heart that humbly calls to God will be heard and responded to, on his time. Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. We draw nearer by humbly glorifying him, obedience, prayer, and reading scripture.

Not to sound mean but by design most people are too prideful, indoctrinated, distracted and generally just want to accept what they are told to accept.

You have to want the truth more than all the glorified design meant to lead us away from it. And the spirit of truth, The Holy Spirit, will confirm that one is on the right path.

originally posted by: saint4God
Nice post and pardon the parsing but doing so for a question:

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
We can't really "see" below the atomic level, but science gives us a reasonably clear picture of what's there. We can't see a neutron, but we know the average number of neutrons in a cobalt atom.

We can't really "see" distant planets even with our best telescopes, but science and math give us a good idea of their mass, chemical composition, and orbits.

What we "see" is inherently limited because our eyes can only detect photons in a limited frequency band. There are an infinite number of frequencies we can't see. We can still detect and use some of them, though.

Would you say then that science require a measure of faith?

Math is generally more dependable than faith, the same way investing in stocks is generally more dependable than getting rich at the casino.

If you think only mathematics can be relied upon to answer the question of the afterlife, not pious hopes or beliefs, then study the research at www.smphillips.mysite.com, particularly, smphillips.mysite.com. There, you will discover how all levels of reality are encoded in equivalent ways in the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, the Hindu Sri Yantra, and in various sacred geometries that are proven there to be isomorphic to the religious maps of reality (for this proof, see other sections of the website). The analysis presented there is original, having never appeared in any book at any time. It is as rigorous as the proof of an axiom of Euclid's geometry; no assumptions, no models, no arbitrary interpretations.

Summary: there exist 91 evolutionary levels of reality. The lowest seven levels are embedded in 26-d space-time required by quantum mechanics for spinless "strings" (1-d quantum objects). The next seven levels constitute the immediate after-life conditions for the average person experiencing himself or herself still as a separate personality, albeit no longer subject to the laws of physics governing physical matter. Conditions beyond the 14th level become increasingly non-dual and transpersonal, culminating with the state in which human consciousness enters Nirvana at the 29th level. Conditions beyond that are mostly indescribable in any language (indeed, so are some levels below it) and can be understood only metaphorically by correspondence with Earthly experience, making use of the hermetic axiom: "as above, so below." However, these transcendental, ineffable realms of being up the 91st level, whose cosmic scope can be expressed only as 'living WITHIN the Life of God,' can still be mapped and quantified in a mathematical way. They can also be given geometrical representation, as multi-dimensional space is a convenient domain for representing numbers that have spiritual meaning as well as magnitude. Proving the isomorphism between different religious maps of reality so as to discover the road map common to them is one of the things that the research at the website linked to above achieves.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
One of these things is the absolute insignificance of mankind in the whole scheme of things. It's a red pill / blue pill thing, but on a scale orders of magnitude beyond that which any movie could ever characterize.

The crazy thing about the Christian message is a double "yes". Yes, a person is infinitesimally small compared to God and the the rest of the universe, but yes you are the most important thing to God. Sounds paradoxical, enough to make one's head explode figuratively as you say in your post, but a point that God have no problem comprehending. I think one day we'll be given the gift of understanding this, even if not in our lifetime.

a reply to: NobodySpecial268

The reason she did not know who I was is simple; In her life, I was not born until a few years later at around the age of eighteen years. The memories return in order of most important first. One can also say; the desire that brought her to this world was to be a star in the ballet; the most important thing for her.

Over the next few weeks her memories returned. She visited me while I lived in her former home tidying up her affairs; when she remembered who I was in her life.

So she was going through a form of life review?

I had to stop reading the thread at this point to respond.

It has been my experience that after death there is a time of reflection on ones life, a life review of sorts before the person moves on to "someplace better" or at least hat is what my friend told me about 4 years after she passed.

I wanted clarity on if this has been your experience as well....
Everyone has such vast and different experiences with these things.

a reply to: Darkblade71

It has been my experience that after death there is a time of reflection on ones life, a life review of sorts before the person moves on to "someplace better" or at least hat is what my friend told me about 4 years after she passed.

I wanted clarity on if this has been your experience as well....
Everyone has such vast and different experiences with these things.

Hi Darkblade, A "life review"? One could call it that, though watching gave the impression of a natural process more than anything. The memories of the life just lived gradually returning.

It was interesting for me to see who was there and who was not. Talking with family later I found out that the (deceased) people with her doted on her in life, her father and brother in law. They both adored her. They knew her death was coming and were kindly waiting for her.

> Yet, we're expecting current science to prove or disprove God, ghosts, aliens, and more.

It's a common misconception that science can provide "the truth" about phenomena. The fact is that science has nothing to do with truth.

Science is three things: a huge collation of information ("data" if you prefer), a body of doctrine, and an investigative methodology.

The first is, of itself, essentially meaningless, as are all "bare facts"; they require interpretation in order to elucidate meaning. This is not the function of science, but of philosophy, a statement that many will dispute; but one has only to recall the origin of the word "scientist" to understand it. By the early nineteenth century, scientific gatherings were plagued by attendees who insisted on religious and metaphysical interpretations of the latest findings, even when these contradicted established fact. William Whewell coined the word "scientist" to denote all who referred their assertions to established or probable facts, often interpreted via mathematical formalisms. Those who could not, or would not do so were politely refused invitations, and the business of science as we understand it today was thus brought under useful disciplines.

It also made obsolete the designation "natural philosopher" by which scientists were formerly known. However, philosophy is a search for truth and meaning, whereas science, being merely an investigative methodology, has nothing to do with truth, which is always and ever a personal value judgement.

There is no doubt as to the existence of extra-physical phenomena, which has long been established using traditional scientific methodology. However, Modern Western Science does not have the techniques needed to go further than establishing their existence, as you stated. More to the point is that many involve consciousness, which MWS regards as nothing more than an epiphenomenon of neurochemistry.

At the end of the day we must all find the courage to analyze and follow our own "truths". Most either do not know how, or lack the requisite courage. Watching videos can be useful on both counts, but you'll always come back to sitting alone facing that personal necessity and challenge.

a reply to: saint4God



youtu.be...

I consider myself atheist. I do not believe in a god.

However, I do believe in energy consciousness, dimensional beings, etc. I’ve had too many out of body experiences not to.

On one of them I was in a dense gray “fog”. A very tall man in a long white hooded robe approached me and spoke to me.

If I was Christian, I would probably have believed he was Jesus. I’m not and I didn’t. He was just a dimensional being giving me a message.

Religion is man made. Could it have something to do with these dimensional beings? Sure, but they’re not gods.

They could be caretakers, but not gods.

originally posted by: Annee
I consider myself atheist. I do not believe in a god.

However, I do believe in energy consciousness, dimensional beings, etc. I’ve had too many out of body experiences not to.

On one of them I was in a dense gray “fog”. A very tall man in a long white hooded robe approached me and spoke to me.

If I was Christian, I would probably have believed he was Jesus. I’m not and I didn’t. He was just a dimensional being giving me a message.

Religion is man made. Could it have something to do with these dimensional beings? Sure, but they’re not gods.

They could be caretakers, but not gods.

what was the message he gave you?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Annee
I consider myself atheist. I do not believe in a god.

However, I do believe in energy consciousness, dimensional beings, etc. I’ve had too many out of body experiences not to.

On one of them I was in a dense gray “fog”. A very tall man in a long white hooded robe approached me and spoke to me.

If I was Christian, I would probably have believed he was Jesus. I’m not and I didn’t. He was just a dimensional being giving me a message.

Religion is man made. Could it have something to do with these dimensional beings? Sure, but they’re not gods.

They could be caretakers, but not gods.

what was the message he gave you?

I “had a foot” in both worlds — the spiritual and physical. I was only 5/6. I wanted to return to the spiritual world. He told me I needed to stay in the physical world.