Are you a butterfly?

Many people question the existance of God.
But never question the existance of themselves.
Why is that?

Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man

- Zhuang Zhou

Video is blocked!

a reply to: AnnihilateThis

That's weird. Can access it from Australia.

a reply to: glend

This video contains content from Australian Open TV (Rightster), who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

a reply to: AnnihilateThis

Over a butterfly. How ridiculous....

thanks for informing.

Well, like Pokemon, or any other japanese animation, that unconditional love or unbreakable bonds, require a creature or spirt to go through un believable abuse.

Cause if it doesnt, it aint love.

Plus, he didnt everyone win the lottery, which started a riot in Bruce Almighty, or see their enemies crushed by a meteorite.

a reply to: Specimen88

Yes that abuse has troubled me for some time. I have read that the 7 gates don't allow any one through. So one must become no-one to pass. Perhaps (and I am guessing) when ego tries to pass the gates, the gate master and ego, are at war with one another.

Or a man moonlighting as a short lived butterfly, living a full and generous life, then returning to his humanity.
Makes me wonder if we as humans are a layover, in a similar fashion, for something much longer lived or nigh immortal and for the same reason.
So that our actual selves question their apparent reality.
a reply to: glend

originally posted by: glend

Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man

- Zhuang Zhou

Maybe.....there is no thing (human or butterfly) that is dreaming..... there is just dreaming.

Human and butterfly are dreamt.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Specimen88

Yes that abuse has troubled me for some time. I have read that the 7 gates don't allow any one through. So one must become no-one to pass. Perhaps (and I am guessing) when ego tries to pass the gates, the gate master and ego, are at war with one another.

The gateless gate.

The open doorway. www.theopendoorway.org...
The open secret. www.theopensecret.com...

They say here in Australia.
King had a dream, we have a dreaming.
a reply to: Itisnowagain

a reply to: Dalamax
What does that mean to you?
Can you translate/interpret/elaborate/expand please?

When Australians say 'King' in that sentence......do they mean Martin Luther King?

a reply to: glend

I am therefore I is.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Dalamax
What does that mean to you?
Can you translate/interpret/elaborate/expand please?

When Australians say 'King' in that sentence......do they mean Martin Luther King?

Yes, you have precisely defined for me.
It means the people of and this great sun burnt country itself exist in laying down the foundations of the world. In the past, present and future. Where land and man are entwined as custodians of each other, both of which observe and record the goings on for posterity.
Mr King, had a personal ambition. A vision for the future he shared with his people.
So the one is creation recognising itself, the other is
a mans persuasive plea for change.
Hence the I have a dream and WE have a dreaming.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thanks for links Itisnowagain I will check them out.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Yes our mind says "I am therefore I is"
Yet our soul says "Before Abraham was, I am"

originally posted by: glend
Many people question the existance of God.
But never question the existance of themselves.
Why is that?

Perhaps because it's less useful to the ruler of this world, who has had thousands of years of experience in manipulating and influencing human thinking and opinion and what people think about or are willing to consider. His main goals being to obscure the evidence for God's existence, identity, character, attributes, will and purpose for the earth and mankind; and his own existence, his influence over mankind and manipulative lying activities.


That being said, those who "question the existance of themselves" tend to be more found amongst those who also question the existence of God rather than amongst those for whom that last question has been settled. These people tend to question the existence of just about anything, even the universe, describing the universe as a simulation, hologram or something like a virtual reality environment.

As to the question of this thread, no, I'm a human being. And so is anyone commenting in this thread.

a reply to: whereislogic

Thanks whereislogic.

We all can read books that describe the processes needed to ride a bicycle but the knowing can only be attained from experiencing that riding. So how can one experience God beyond scripture?

Many believe revelation prophetizes the experience will arrive at a future date. But I feel revelation is not reaveling what is to come, but what is, Instead of the 10 tribes of Israel it promotes the 7 churches of asia. The estoric knowledge that isn't said in revelation is that the seven churches represent emanations of the soul. The first has 4 attributes, the second 6, the third 10, the forth 12, the fifth 16, the sixth 96 which all adds up to 144. The seventh and last being 1000 which comes to sum of 1000x144=144,000. Man exists at the first emanations of the soul. With the attibutes of mind, intellect, consciousness and ego.

These teachings are estoric. They are not for people that want remain as human beings. They are for those that seek their higher self.

But perhaps all truths are false. The only truth being God,

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: whereislogic

We all can read books that describe the processes needed to ride a bicycle but the knowing can only be attained from experiencing that riding. So how can one experience God beyond scripture?

Though I would not detract from the importance of reading the Bible as a primary step for getting to know the God described therein, I would like to point out that there are different ways of getting to know something or someone which are not limited to only experience.

Essentially, knowledge means familiarity with facts acquired by personal experience, observation, or study. So acquiring knowledge of something, or getting to know something, can be achieved by more means than only experience.

In the Hebrew Scriptures a number of words (nouns) that can be translated “knowledge” are related to the basic verb ya·dhaʽʹ, signifying “know (by being told),” “know (by observing),” “know (by personal acquaintance or experience),” or “be experienced, skillful.” The exact shade of meaning, and often the way each word should be translated, must be determined by the context. For instance, God said that he ‘knew’ Abraham and so was sure that that man of faith would command his offspring correctly. Jehovah was not saying simply that he was aware that Abraham existed but, rather, that He had become well acquainted with Abraham, for he had observed Abraham’s obedience and interest in true worship over many years.​—Ge 18:19, NW, La; Ge 22:12.

As with the verb ya·dhaʽʹ (know), the principal Hebrew word rendered “knowledge” (daʹʽath) carries the basic idea of knowing facts or having information, but at times it includes more than that. For example, Hosea 4:1, 6 says that at a certain time there was no “knowledge of God” in Israel. That does not mean that the people were not aware that Jehovah was God and that he had delivered and led the Israelites in the past. (Ho 8:2) But by their course of murdering, stealing, and committing adultery, they showed that they rejected real knowledge because they were not acting in harmony with it.​—Ho 4:2.

After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit (Ge 2:17; 3:5, 6), Jehovah said to his associate in creative work (Joh 1:1-3): “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.” (Ge 3:22) This apparently did not mean merely having knowledge of what was good and what was bad for them, for the first man and woman had such knowledge by reason of God’s commands to them. Furthermore, God’s words at Genesis 3:22 could not pertain to their now knowing what was bad by experience, for Jehovah said that they had become like him and he has not learned what is bad by doing it. (Ps 92:14, 15) Evidently, Adam and Eve got to know what was good and what was bad in the special sense of now judging for themselves what was good and what was bad. They were idolatrously placing their judgment above God’s, disobediently becoming a law to themselves, as it were, instead of obeying Jehovah, who has both the right and the wisdom necessary to determine good and bad. So their independent knowledge, or standard, of good and bad was not like that of Jehovah. Rather, it was one that led them to misery.​—Jer 10:23.

How Can You Know God Personally?

The Bible’s answer

You can get to know God personally by learning about him and taking steps to please him. God will then “draw close to you.” (James 4:8) The Bible assures us that “he is not far off from each one of us.”—Acts 17:27.

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Steps to knowing God

Read the Bible

What the Bible says: “All Scripture is inspired of God.”—2 Timothy 3:16.

Meaning: God is the Author of the Bible. He put his thoughts into the minds of the Bible writers. By means of this unique book, God has revealed his will for us. He has also revealed facets of his personality, including his love, justice, and mercy.—Exodus 34:6; Deuteronomy 32:4.

...

Observe creation

What the Bible says: “[God’s] invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made.”—Romans 1:20.

Meaning: God’s physical creations reveal aspects of his personality, just as a work of art can reveal much about the artist or a complex machine can say much about the inventor. To illustrate, the capacity and complexity of the human brain reveal God’s wisdom, and the controlled energy in the sun and other stars demonstrates his power.—Psalm 104:24; Isaiah 40:26.

What you can do: Take time to observe and learn about our natural world. As you do, ask yourself, ‘What do the amazing designs manifest in nature reveal about God?’ * Of course, there are many things that nature cannot tell us about our Creator. That is why he gave us the Bible.

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Experience God’s care by applying his advice

What the Bible says: “By experience you will see that [God] is good.”—Psalm 34:8, The Bible in Basic English.

Meaning: God invites you to see for yourself how good he is. When you experience his love and support, you will want to draw close to him.

What you can do: ...

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Misconceptions about knowing God

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Misconception: We cannot know God because he is a mystery.

Fact: Some things about God are difficult to comprehend, such as his being an invisible Spirit. Still, we can get to know God. In fact, the Bible says that we need to know him in order to gain everlasting life. (John 17:3) In terms we can understand, the Bible tells us about our Creator, revealing his personality, his purpose for mankind and for the earth, and his standards. (Isaiah 45:18, 19; 1 Timothy 2:4) And as mentioned, the Bible also reveals God’s name. (Psalm 83:18) We can thus not only know God but also draw close to him.—James 4:8.

Concerning Psalm 34:8 rendered above as “By experience you will see that [God] is good.” (The Bible in Basic English The Bible in Basic English) Here's an alternate rendering with some further elaboration:

a reply to: whereislogic

God is omniscience, so Gods truth of everything including Abraham is absolute. Our observations are relative in space and time. Using intellect and senses unique to every person. Communicating those observations with language that doesn't transfer the substance of memories. But labels that excite neurological pathways that are unique in each person.

Then when we read scripture, we subconsciously promote scripture that reinforces our belief system whilst demoting or ignoring scripture that doesn't. That in itself, explaining why 200+ christian denominations exist in US alone.

If we percieve scripture as truth it ends up representing God in our mind. If we instead percieve scripture as untruths (relative truths) we can then use scripture as inspiration to search for the absolute truth in God with prayer and meditation.

Children are empty of truths....

Matthew 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

“All Scripture is inspired of God.” ... The transfer from GOD to mind results in translation from absolute to relative. To realize the absolute one must be in that inspiration of God.

To sum up...
In scripture I seek inspiration
In prayer and meditation, I seek God.