The Seed of The Tree of Life

a reply to: Bleeeeep
Babies are born aware and then as they grow and learn concepts, words and language, they then believe in concepts.

You are simply aware.......but you believe concepts.

Thought says that you are a person living in a world.

But really there is just an appearance happening in awareness.

The appearance is not separate from awareness.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Awareness is itself a living-concept. You cannot remove concepts from awareness and still have awareness.

Watch this video so you can get a better understanding of what I'm trying to tell you.



Awareness is something like will and concepts [of sensation].
Will is something like awareness and concepts [of purpose].
Concepts is something like awareness and will [of form].

You cannot truly separate them - they're qualities of a thing that is one.

Think of it like awareness is a living-algorithm. And the algorithm is itself made up of concepts of purpose/will.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

Yeshua is the body/qualia of the mind of God, Father is the translator/observer of the mind, and the Holy Ghost is the will/spirit of the mind.

The father is the knower........the son is the known and the holy ghost is knowing.

The knower and known are conceptual.....these two are actually one......knowing.
Knowing is non conceptual.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

You're conclusion is wrong.

These words are the image of my conception (the image of my awareness) of my will where my will is to conceive (to have conception of) these words. It all acts as one. If the spirits weren't conceptual, how then can it be purposed/ordered and translated?

a reply to: Bleeeeep
There is no purpose........

What purpose is supposed?

a reply to: Bleeeeep

Can we agree that the minute sensory information we each percieve in spacetime is different for each observer? If yes then which one is true, which one is false.

Saying that the I AM is the observer of the mind does not exclude it from being distinct from mind. The mind constantly bombards the I AM with thought. But the I AM can also exist in non-thought. So what is your true self, is it your mind or your I AM. If you train your mind to cease its constant roar. Something special will happen. It will be very subtle at first. But when more and more light enters you will believe. But don't bother telling people. Everyone wants to exist as their mind. To die in their sins.

a reply to: Bleeeeep
Awareness is non conceptual.

I won't bother posting a video...
Look on YouTube for 'non conceptual awareness' and you will find many many talks about 'non conceptual awareness'.

a reply to: glend

"Can we agree that the minute sensory information we each perceive in spacetime is different for each observer? If yes then which one is true, which one is false."

If it is different then we can both be correct as we are looking at different things. Also, if the truth of your will is to tell a lie, are you telling a lie or are you speaking the truth of your will? We have to know your will relative to the will of God to know whether your will is truth.

"Saying that the I AM is the observer of the mind does not exclude it from being distinct from mind. The mind constantly bombards the I AM with thought."

What I meant is that the observer is a part of the mind like a lens is apart of a working projector. I don't think the mind is what you think it is. It's not the mind that bombards the soul with thought but it is the soul in conjunction with the body and spirit which forms the mind. Impulsive thoughts are due to the spirit (like the forces flowing through a working projector is what causes the lens to form an image). A mind isn't qualia like a projector isn't a projected image. A mind is the whole of the construct which produces and contains qualia (you have to think, even the darkness or mindscape of the mind is itself qualia).

Do you know the Jungian model of the psyche? I think what you're calling I AM is probably what Jung would call the ego where as what I would call I AM is the self. I AM is before the ego whereas Yeshua would take the role of ego/the body of the I AM.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I think you're addressing conception which comes instinctively and it is due to the fact that awareness is itself a living-concept.

a reply to: Bleeeeep
What do you mean by conception?
Do you mean perceiving?

The perceived cannot perceive.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yeshua cannot perceive? A tulpa cannot perceive? A living-soul is a living-thought. We are tulpas. Physicality/Yeshua is the qualia of the mind of God - the body/word of God lives (perceives).

The guy in your video said it himself: "we are made of perception". He is wrong about it being "pure perception" though as even those feelings he is describing of "pure perception" are themselves conceptions/perception which are made of previous precepts/concepts. After that he just starts babbling nonsense because he went off on a wrong path/conclusion. "I know it because I feel it." Well, sorry buddy but those feelings are themselves concepts. Feelings are just physical thoughts.

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: Bleeeeep

Way down there : here ?

Here : this that just is ?

What kind of gibberish is that ?

Don't you know anything ?

You know nothing !

What are ya : Some Kind Of Renowned Probabilistic Internet Expert On Nothing ? A SKORPIEON ?

Just another Know-Nothing-Know-It-All ? A KNKIA ?

A Know-It-All-Know-Nothing ? A KIAKN ?

What is below, deeper, before : concepts, thoughts, will, and even perception ?

Stop guessing, here is everything you need to know :



Silly old fart...

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
I have been wrestling with conception, trying to get to the deepest root of it for so long, yet I cannot seem to move further - I am stuck. When I got to archetypes, emotions, and hierarchies it's as if they began to blur together such that I cannot tell if they did or did not emerge together, or which should come before the other.

"conception"? do you mean "creation"?.

"Deepest root?" do you mean "original cause"? There is no original cause, that's a simplistic linear idea that doesn't conform to reality.

"archetypes" "emotions" and "hierarchies" - what can I say you are conflating concepts from entirely different domains. It helps, I find, to understand concepts first within the context that they came from before trying to compare/contrast (apply?) to other domains of knowledge.

It may be impossible but try to picture that you knew nothing and then try to think of a truth. How would you begin without the will of judgment? To suggest truth requires a person/archetypal role of judging/measuring (a king or ruler archetype which measures or judges) between truth and falsity. And if there is a distinction and if it is made, if will is conceived (desired and purposed), is it not emotive? So, it seems to me that the first kind of will, the will of measuring itself, has the qualities of a role/position in a hierarchy and it is purposed by desire. Thus you cannot get to the seed of life as these qualities must have already existed/be from always.

Ephesians 1:9

I guess I could state this another way. Is it possible to have a thing which is absent of qualities that are beyond itself? Can a thing be of a singular value? And if so, what is it?

Well - if the bible is your source - why do you need other sources of knowlege?

a reply to: Bleeeeep

In the days of Jesus and before, they sometimes referred to the spiritual realm as MALE and physical realm as FEMALE. Adam was made in the image of God, whereas Eve reflects our physical self, with the serpent being our ego. The tree and the branches represent our nervous system with the apple our senses. Eve was made of dust and will return to dust but Adam, made in the image of God, is industructible. So mind and spirit according to scripture are seperate. If you want to comprehend that in greater detail you will have to study Mystical Judiasm (Kabbalah). That goes into great detail as to our nature and the gates in which light need pass to enter our vessel etc. One does not need be a mechanic to drive a car. But it can help clear delussions that may block our path.

Does your understanding of self agree with Luke 14:26: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Only those that don't want to exist as their minds will can be reborn into the Fathers will. Existing in the Fathers will ignites an unbridled love for all. It is not all or nothing. Mind has purpose.

You are far more educated than me. But that is not always a good thing. Sometimes we need empty our cup so that it can be filled.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

That would depend on the question one could or should be asking?

Process of elimination and deduction (Jupiter an Saturn, look it up) are the usual methods, while also research fact checking, cross referencing, arguments, the works.

I guess your more or less interested in for more decisive methods? If you wanted to get past most of malware sort of speak, just take a step back an breath for a sec.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
...
Ephesians 1:9
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Seeing that the rest of your commentary didn't seem to bear much relevance to this text I'm just going to talk about this text. At Ephesians 1:9-11 Paul speaks of God’s making known “the sacred secret” of his will. A “sacred secret” is something that originates with God, is withheld until his own time, and is revealed only to those to whom he chooses to make it known.

The Greek word my·steʹri·on, translated “sacred secret,” has reference primarily to that which is known by those who are initiated. In the ancient mystery religions that flourished in the time of the early Christian congregation, those who wished to take part in the mystery celebrations had to undergo initiation; the uninitiated were denied both access to the so-called sacred actions and to knowledge of them. Those initiated into them were bound by a vow of silence, not to reveal the secrets. However, there was also a secular, “everyday” use of the word, such as for a private secret, a secret between friends, family secrets. The apostle Paul uses the passive of my·eʹo in this latter sense when he says: “I have learned the secret [literally, I have been initiated into secrets] of both how to be full and how to hunger, both how to have an abundance and how to suffer want.”​—Php 4:12.

Different From Mystery Religions. Concerning the Greek my·steʹri·on, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words explains: “In the [New Testament] it denotes, not the mysterious (as with the Eng. word), but that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit. In the ordinary sense a mystery implies knowledge withheld; its Scriptural significance is truth revealed. Hence the terms especially associated with the subject are ‘made known,’ ‘manifested,’ ‘revealed,’ ‘preached,’ ‘understand,’ ‘dispensation.’”​—1981, Vol. 3, p. 97.

The sacred secrets of God and other “mysteries” of the Bible, such as that of Babylon the Great, are therefore things, not to be kept secret forever, but to be revealed by Jehovah God in his own time to those who look to him and to whom he chooses to reveal them. The apostle Paul discusses this aspect of matters at 1 Corinthians 2:6-16. There he speaks of the “sacred secret” of God as “hidden wisdom,” revealed through God’s spirit to his Christian servants. It is something that the spirit of the world or the human wisdom of physical men cannot fathom but that is spoken and understood by those ‘combining spiritual matters with spiritual words.’ Jesus Christ earlier pointed out to his disciples: “To you the sacred secret [Gr., my·steʹri·on] of the kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things occur in illustrations, in order that, though looking, they may look and yet not see, and, though hearing, they may hear and yet not get the sense of it, nor ever turn back and forgiveness be given them.”​—Mr 4:11, 12; Mt 13:11-13; Lu 8:10.

The great difference between the sacred secret of God and the secrets of mystery religions is, first of all, in content: God’s secret is good news and is not a lie or man-made deception. (Joh 8:31, 32, 44; Col 1:5; 1Jo 2:27) Second, those who are chosen to understand the sacred secret of God are bound, not to keep it secret, but to give it the widest possible proclamation and publication. This is revealed, as noted in the foregoing, by the Bible use of terms such as “preached,” “made known,” “manifested,” and also “declaring,” ‘speaking,’ in connection with “the sacred secret of the good news.” True Christians exercised the greatest vigor in telling this good news containing the understanding of the sacred secret to “all creation that is under heaven.” (1Co 2:1; Eph 6:19; Col 1:23; 4:3, 4) God determines who are not deserving and withholds understanding from such ones. God is not partial when he does this; it is because of “the insensibility of their hearts” that God does not open up to them the understanding of his sacred secret.​—Eph 4:17, 18.

Centers Around Christ. Since “the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying,” “the sacred secret of God” must center around Christ. (Re 19:10; Col 2:2) All “the sacred secrets” of God have to do with his Messianic Kingdom. (Mt 13:11) The apostle Paul writes to fellow Christians: “Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge,” and “it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.”​—Col 2:2, 3, 9.

Paul spoke of himself as having a stewardship of “sacred secrets of God.” (1Co 4:1) He speaks of the comprehension he has “in the sacred secret of the Christ.” (Eph 3:1-4) He explains that this sacred secret is hidden wisdom foreordained by God before the systems of things. (1Co 2:7) The declaration of the mystery, or “the sacred secret of God,” began with Jehovah’s own prophecy at Genesis 3:15. For centuries men of faith looked forward to the “seed” of promise to deliver mankind from sin and death, but it was not clearly understood just who the “seed” would be and just how this “seed” would come and bring deliverance. It was not until Christ came and “shed light upon life and incorruption through the good news” that this was made clear. (2Ti 1:10) Then the knowledge of the mystery of the ‘seed of the woman’ began to be understood.

The Messianic Kingdom. In Paul’s writings he gives a full view of the revelation of the sacred secret of the Christ. At Ephesians 1:9-11 he speaks of God’s making known “the sacred secret” of his will, and says: “It is according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, namely, to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him, in union with whom we were also assigned as heirs, in that we were foreordained according to the purpose of him who operates all things according to the way his will counsels.” This “sacred secret” involves a government, the Messianic Kingdom of God. “The things in the heavens,” to which Paul refers, are the prospective heirs of that heavenly Kingdom with Christ. “The things on the earth” will be its earthly subjects. Jesus pointed out to his disciples that the sacred secret had to do with the Kingdom when he said to them: “To you the sacred secret of the kingdom of God has been given.”​—Mr 4:11.

Includes the Congregation. There are many features in the knowledge of the sacred secret. The apostle gave further details when he explained that the sacred secret includes the congregation, of which Christ is Head. (Eph 5:32; Col 1:18; Re 1:20) These are his joint heirs, with whom he shares the Kingdom. (Lu 22:29, 30) They are taken from among both Jews and Gentiles. (Ro 11:25; Eph 3:3-6; Col 1:26, 27) This feature of “the sacred secret” could not be made clearly known until Peter was directed to visit the Gentile Cornelius and saw this Gentile household receive the gifts of the holy spirit, in 36 C.E. (Ac 10:34, 44-48) In writing to Gentile Christians, Paul told them: “You were . . . without Christ, . . . strangers to the covenants of the promise, and you had no hope and were without God in the world. But now in union with Christ Jesus you who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ.” (Eph 2:11-13) Through God’s dealings with the congregation, “the governments and the authorities in the heavenly places” would come to know “the greatly diversified wisdom of God.”​—Eph 3:10.

This congregation is shown in vision in the Revelation to John to be composed of 144,000 persons “bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.” They are standing with the Lamb, Jesus Christ, on Mount Zion, the place where the “city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem,” is located. In ancient earthly Jerusalem was situated “Jehovah’s throne,” with kings of the line of David seated on it; also the temple of Jehovah was there. In heavenly Jerusalem Jesus Christ is enthroned, and his loyal spirit-anointed followers share his Kingdom rule. (Re 14:1, 4; Heb 12:22; 1Ch 29:23; 1Pe 2:4-6) The resurrection of such ones to immortality and incorruption during the time of Christ’s presence is one of the features of God’s dealings with the congregation, “a sacred secret” in itself.​—1Co 15:51-54.

The Sacred Secret of Godly Devotion. Paul wrote to Timothy: “I am writing you these things, . . . that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in God’s household, which is the congregation of the living God, a pillar and support of the truth. Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He [Jesus Christ] was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.’”​—1Ti 3:14-16.

“The congregation of the living God” had the truth, and it knew accurately the mystery, or “the sacred secret,” of true godly devotion, and the congregation had not only the form but also the power of such godly devotion. (Contrast 2Ti 3:5.) Hence, it could be the “pillar and support of the truth” in the midst of a world of error and false religion, the ‘mysteries’ sacred to Satan and those he has blinded. (2Co 4:4) Jesus Christ himself is the One whose godly devotion was foretold and described in the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. For centuries, ever since the challenge was launched against God’s sovereignty, with the integrity of man being brought into question, it was a mystery, or “sacred secret,” whether complete, unswerving, unblemished godly devotion could be fully maintained by anyone upon whom the Devil would bring pressure. Who, if anyone, would be able to hold up under the test and come through wholly clean, without sin, and untarnished in exclusive devotion to Jehovah? Related to this was the question concerning who would be the ‘seed of the woman’ that would bruise the Serpent’s head. This would be fully revealed when Christ “was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.” (1Ti 3:16; 6:16) This was admittedly a great thing. The great question of godly devotion centered around the one person, Jesus Christ. What greatness there was to Christ’s course of godly devotion! How it benefits mankind and exalts Jehovah’s name!​—See GODLY DEVOTION.

Comes to a Finish. In the apostle John’s vision, he was told: “In the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret of God according to the good news which he declared to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.” (Re 10:7) This finishing of the sacred secret is closely connected with the seventh angel’s blowing of his trumpet, upon the blowing of which the announcement is made in heaven: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.” (Re 11:15) Accordingly, the sacred secret of God is finished at the time that Jehovah begins his Kingdom by means of his Messiah, or Christ. Jesus Christ spoke much to his disciples, God’s “slaves,” about the Kingdom of God and said that the “good news of the kingdom” would continue to be preached right up to the end (Gr., teʹlos) of “the system of things.” After ‘the sacred secret of God is brought to a finish,’ the “good news” to be preached would therefore include what the voices in heaven announced: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ.”​—Mt 24:3, 14.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
"conception"? do you mean "creation"?.

conception = creation of awareness; creation of a [living] concept;

originally posted by: FyreByrd
"Deepest root?" do you mean "original cause"? There is no original cause, that's a simplistic linear idea that doesn't conform to reality.

The original cause is will but I'm not looking for what the will was - I'm looking for what the first word was - the word before it was divided.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
"archetypes" "emotions" and "hierarchies" - what can I say you are conflating concepts from entirely different domains. It helps, I find, to understand concepts first within the context that they came from before trying to compare/contrast (apply?) to other domains of knowledge.

Hierarchies are made up of archetypal roles which serve to fulfill the personification of emotions. Emotions are moral judgments about will.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Well - if the bible is your source - why do you need other sources of knowlege?

My source was meditation / deepthought. I only left that verse to give clarity to what I was saying and to illustrate the parallel between it and what I had come to understand through meditation. That is, that verse was left to be a sign of affirmation: something which helped affirm and give clarity to what I was saying. I came to the question before I drew a parallel between it and the verse.

a reply to: glend

"So mind and spirit according to scripture are seperate." They're separable but you would lose the mind which the spirit gives life to. We were made of dust and then given life byway of breath/the spirit. Only once we had spirit in us did we become living-souls / living-concepts. The dust/earthly form is symbolic of the concept and the spirit gives it life thereby producing living-concepts / souls.

The way that I understand Luke 14:26 is that it's speaking to selfishness which is caused by corruption of the ego; hence, we're supposed to sacrifice our ego to become one with God. With that said, the ego isn't wicked - it is just that we are incapable of using it properly because we are selfish. As a matter of fact, in the Old Testament times followers were taught to perfect the ego (e.g. using evil was desired. e.g. an eye for an eye was desired) instead of sacrificing our personas of great stature.

I think you are definitely confusing ego, mind, and I AM with self. What you're saying is borderline correct, the conclusion about sacrificing our ego is correct, but it's not the self, soul, nor mind that needs to be sacrificed - it is only the personification of the soul (the ego) that does. Obviously this doesn't mean to really sacrifice the ego though, not in its entirety. Instead it means to sacrifice the ego such that it no longer tries to cast you in a role or as a person above others. Truly you need the ego to lower your standing, to put yourself beneath others.

originally posted by: whereislogic
Seeing that the rest of your commentary didn't seem to bear much relevance to this text I'm just going to talk about this text.

Very nice post, thank you! However, I was only trying to draw a parallel between that verse and my question. The way that verse speaks about God conceiving his will contains all the elements of what I have put myself up against to try to get past (hierarchy, archetypes, and emotions). I mean, you are looking at the verse spiritually to see its meaning / will but I was pointing to the process and structuring that God used when conceiving his will: I was saying, "see, when dividing the word all these elements (hierarchy, archetypes, and emotions) are already in place, how can I get before them to see a deeper truth?"

I am starting to think that this ordering must be eternal properties and not something that was themselves ordered - they may be intrinsic properties of God and so they are as eternal as God (there may not be any getting past hierarchies, archetypes, and emotions).

Oh and about the mystery religions: they were cults back in the day that operated sort of like Free Masons or Scientologists do noways, with their teachings being mysteries that people gained access rights to by working up through the ranks. I think there were tons of them back in those days. I think they differ from the mysteries of God in that God gives understanding freely to those who do not earn it. But yeah, your post about "the good news" / gospel was really well written - you should post it everywhere so people can hear the news.

edit: Just now I was thinking about the three things and how they work together and it occurred to me that maybe the first word was love/agape (self-sacrifice) or maybe sensation. Think about it like being given spirit/breath is a sacrifice which instills into you will/purpose thereby giving you a role (an archetype within a hierarchy) and drives you by desire/emotion. So working in reverse order that it comes to us, maybe emotion as a sensation is the first word, before it is divided and conceived as an emotion, it is just sensation and it is self-sacrifice (can't be other-sacrifice / evil if there is no other created yet).

a reply to: glend

I have to reply again to add more for clarity. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was said to make us like gods because it's knowledge is the knowledge of judgment. A god and/or God is a head or judge over a spiritual body. Capitalized god (God) is the highest order god. (It's the same with other capitalized words in the Bible, the capitalization means the highest order.)

The good side of the tree of knowledge of good and evil grows up from inspiration through to hope, faith, then lastly to love/agape (self-sacrifice) and the self-sacrifice produces the fruit byway of a judgment of self-sacrifice. Conversely, the evil side grow up from inspiration through doubt, cynicism, and then vengeance (other-sacrifice) and the fruit of evil is born through other-sacrifice.

Evil and wickedness are not the same thing. Evil is other-sacrifice while wickedness is unjust evil. God does good and evil (Isaiah 45:7) but God does evil justly whereas we are now told not to practice evil - not to judge others (and judge meant to punish not rebuke - don't cast stones but do cast blame.)

The ego is what causes the soul/self/I AM to put itself in a role (it chooses a role based on the will the soul wants to conceive) such as judge or a role such as caregiver or etc. It not only picks our role but our position in the role's hierarchy.

Now my point to the above is that the ego and judgment are inseparable, so unless we sacrifice the ego (where it wants to put us above others) it will cause us to use evil (punish others / make other-sacrifice) and if we do that then we too will have to be judged by the same measure. There are thousands of roles that life plays out (all animals use archetypes to lesser and greater degrees of realization) and we are only meant to judge using good if we are to be accepted.