Preferred boresighting method.

Without naming specific companies. What is your preferred boresighting method?

A. Internal round laser.
B. External end of barrel laser.
C. (For bolt action) Taking out the receiver and looking down the barrel.

It really depends on the particular weapons platform and the type of optic to be zeroed. For example, if I’m zeroing an AR15/M16/M4 with iron sights, I’m not going to waste my time with a laser; I’m going to setup a target at 25 meters and adjust my front sight post and rear sights/windage as necessary, and then again at 200 meters to confirm the zero.

For a bolt action rifle, I think it’s important to know how to zero by looking through the barrel (mostly because I can’t keep track of the darn laser), but using a laser really speeds up the process

The only time where I could see that a laser was crucial, was when I was in the Corps and we’d have to bore sight the 50 cal and the 40mm together in the turret. Aside from that, they’re nice but not really necessary for smaller weapons systems.

What do you prefer?

I agree on the weapons platfrom. I just re-read my OP and there are a lot of holes I left in my question. My fault.

For better responses to a more accurate idea I was thinking of. Let me try to rephrase my question. (BTW, thank you for serving brother.)

In a civilian situation, where today's ammo prices have gone through the roof, and the quantity has lessened. I am looking for an less expensive way to zero.

A preferred boresight method to saving money over shooting ammo.

I have tried several universal front of barrel bore sight lasers. The thing I have noticed with these kind of boresights is well, milspec, for a better term.

Some of those universal boresights "tweak in", others don't. So no matter how accurate you spin the laser outside the barrel, when inserted, the discrepancies show.

I would like to hear about your experience with your specific boresighting methods. What does or does not work in your opinion.

originally posted by: amtracer
It really depends on the particular weapons platform and the type of optic to be zeroed. For example, if I’m zeroing an AR15/M16/M4 with iron sights, I’m not going to waste my time with a laser; I’m going to setup a target at 25 meters and adjust my front sight post and rear sights/windage as necessary, and then again at 200 meters to confirm the zero.

For a bolt action rifle, I think it’s important to know how to zero by looking through the barrel (mostly because I can’t keep track of the darn laser), but using a laser really speeds up the process

The only time where I could see that a laser was crucial, was when I was in the Corps and we’d have to bore sight the 50 cal and the 40mm together in the turret. Aside from that, they’re nice but not really necessary for smaller weapons systems.

What do you prefer?

a reply to: CopeLongCut

For a bench rifle, I use method # C. (sighting down the barrel).

External barrel end lasers (method # B.) can be fairly dramatically affected by the rifling, depending on how you rotate the laser. The other thing with these is, you're messing around near the crown (which I don't like to do). With chambered lasers (method # A.) you don't know if the laser is in the exact centerline of the barrel (and even a couple thousandths can make a difference).

All three methods will work, but really the biggest objective is only to get it on paper. So, method # C. works as good as any, and saves you having to buy a bunch of lasers for different calibers, which brings up another point. I don't like multi-caliber lasers at all.

I have an old bore sighting tool where you put it in the end of the barrel and look through the scope into a prism to see where the barrel is aligned (i.e. no laser at all). That actually works as good as any for a non-bolt action. Wouldn't work on an AR though, or something with a high rail.

Really though, the bigger question is...when are you doing this bore sighting (with whatever tool you're using)? If it's straight out of the box, before the first few fouling (and cleaning) shots, you're probably just wasting your time anyway. If it's after a scope change then I guess that's probably okay.

In any case, crown, headspacing, twist rate, cartridge OAL length and bullet weight have the most to do with it.

ETA - Good thread! S&F

And just to expand on the subject a little further, once I've got the rifle on paper (and after the barrel is broken in), I usually "walk" to zero in 3 shot groups (some guys use 5, but I only use shot 4 and 5 if I get a flyer in the first 3). This way, you can tell if you've got something weird going on, even before you get to zero. If I do have something go wonky I stop right there and figure out what the issue is before wasting more ammo.

Most fun I ever had was sighting in a .223 HB bench rifle one time. Our range had a High Power match going on and there were gobs of people so the 1,000 yard range was a no-go. So I went over to the Schuetzen range where there was only one other guy (also shooting a .223). Fired a few fouling shots and then got to sighting in. I had a long range target scope on the rifle so I figured what the heck and started at the Shuetzen distance (200 yards). Bore sighted the rifle and made a couple adjustments. Amazingly, I got the first shot on paper down in the very lower left corner of the target. Took a couple more shots and it was holing. Wow! From there I just started walking it to zero. It was a nice day, and I was just taking my time, keeping the barrel at an even temp. The other guy really wanted to keep shooting, and he was all over the place, so I was just using my scope and spotting scope to track progress. **shrug** Fine by me. But from what I could see it looked like this rifle was doing really good.

I wasn't really paying attention to what the other guy was doing, but apparently he was paying attention to me. So finally he wants to safe the range and go check targets. Okay, great. So we walk out there, except he doesn't walk to his target, he walks over to mine. I had grabbed an official Schuetzen target even though neither of us were technically shooting that style. (you know, when in Rome, kinda' thing). This other guy gets up to my target before me, and I hear him say "What...the...FOOK??? That's what I thought I saw!!! DAMMIT! Damn rifle!!". Then he stomps away shaking his head. I get up to the target and there's a perfect 45 degree line of hole-in-hole 3 shot groups from the lower left corner of the target right up to zero. And zero was completely punched out of the target. LOL!! (I was even pretty shocked, but didn't let on). I knew the rifle was shooting surprisingly well, but I didn't know it was holding that well!

We get back to the line and I'm ready to pack up and leave. But here this guy comes, and he wants to chat. He was a nice older fella so I stayed and we chatted for a while. He's got a million questions. How long have I had the rifle? (brand new, first time I ever shot it). How long have I had the scope? (brand new, first time out). He's freaking out more by the minute! His target looks like he was shooting at it with a scatter gun, and he's about ready to go wrap his poor rifle around a post! (I was tryin' not to chuckle). I didn't want the poor fella to go home mad so I pointed out a few differences between what we were doing so he'd feel better. First, he was shooting from a standard sitting position on a bench holding his rifle with both hands. I was also sitting, but shooting one handed (left hand on top of my right shoulder) off a lead bag on a finely adjustable cast iron front rest pinned into the table. Next, he was shooting whatever ammo he had (different weights and loads). I was shooting Black Hills match ammo. He was shooting a nice sporting rifle. I was shooting a match grade stainless heavy barreled bench rifle (big difference right there). His scope was a nice 3-9x variable. I was shooting like a 40x tactical long range target scope with a super long heat shade on it. So, it wasn't really fair for him to compare and put himself or his rifle down over it. I also pointed out that unlike me, he could go hunt prairie dogs and coyotes with his rifle, whereas mine (at 19+ lbs.) would take a forklift to do the same thing. Besides, it's all just supposed to be fun anyways. He got it and thankfully went away happy.

I saved that target, and still have it to this day. It's a good memory.

a reply to: CopeLongCut


Ok, to start off, this is my gun, I'm used to it and how it fires, so don't take this as gospel.
Bore sight.
I've got a Remington .270 and she. is. sweet.

From 300 meters I can take the top off a Gatorade bottle....and never touch the bottle. Not match ammo, just standard 130 grain Federal.

I know, sounds like bragging, but I put a lot of time into getting her that way. No special scope, [ a good one just not super expensive ] just floated the barrel and a butt load of practice.

a reply to: CopeLongCut

chambered laser round. They are inexpensive and perfect for sighting in and for checking your sights when in question. My house is almost exactly 100 yards from my barn, and it's white, so I wait until dusk, paint my house and bring the scope into the laser dot. Once that's done, nothing but a little tweaking is needed.

a reply to: CopeLongCut

I have a vision and hand issue. Sighting is outta the question.

I have a CPL and have 4(5) handguns, 2 EDC. :357 mag,/38 Spec, 45 ACP and 3 9mm.

Cant sight any. Center Mass under 12 ft is all I got. Someone push me over...I'm done.

Gonna follow here. Thank you, Best

a reply to: DAVID64

.270 Rem. is a nice flat shooting rifle. Dad handed me down a .270 WBY Mag Mk V. That thing is a sledge hammer, but it shoots flat and accurate. The .270 WBY Mag is a necked down .300 H&H belted magnum case. I'm not really sure you'd have to hit anything with it, the sound alone would scare most things to death! That puppy is LOUD!!! WHAT???

ETA - I hope I can shoot that thing again sometime (after they get done with my shoulder).

a reply to: mysterioustranger

What's your issue?

I may be able to help you. Is it an eye dominance issue? (i.e. Is it a Right hand-Left eye or vice versa issue?) If so, I can help.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Can't see outta either eye well past my face much. Have quad-focals (4) diff lens/glasses. No surg, no contacts....so..kinda go on Zen and "be the bullet"- center mass...been lucky so far...

I've been planning on asking a
rangemaster and getting advice.

Dominant hand/sev arth...maybe at 50% ...no strength. It'll do in crisis...need to BUG on left..maybe. ( backup).

Add fall risk ( cane).. and I'm done. Enter "principle of 3"? And 3 yrds, 3 rounds in 3 seconds and it's over: One of us is dead. Hopefully, not me.

So...sight, bad leg, hip, foot/cane, rt hand- weak...

Downsized small 357 mag/5 shot. 3 secs, 3 rounds...it over. Increase the playing field you know.

Lasers we learn in training are great..but also give away your location.so.

I could use any advice. Thnx in adv

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Can't see outta either eye well past my face much. Have quad-focals (4) diff lens/glasses. No surg, no contacts....so..kinda go on Zen and "be the bullet"- center mass...been lucky so far...

Okay.

I've been planning on asking a
rangemaster and getting advice.

You're talking to one (well, former), and instructor.

Dominant hand/sev arth...maybe at 50% ...no strength. It'll do in crisis...need to BUG on left..maybe. ( backup).

Can you use your other hand for support? (I know, cane, but let's deal with that in a moment) Say you're sitting at a bench, can you use two hands?

Add fall risk ( cane).. and I'm done. Enter "principle of 3"? And 3 yrds, 3 rounds in 3 seconds and it's over: One of us is dead. Hopefully, not me.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "3", 3 yards and 3 seconds", but let's focus on what you "can" see. Can you see an outline beyond 3 yards (forget being able to focus on a certain spot clearly)? More importantly, let's back up; can you clearly see your firearm, tell what threat posture it's in and know if you are in Condition 1-4? If so, then we're good. If not, then we need to look at some other things. More on this later, (maybe by different thread or PM, your call).

So...sight, bad leg, hip, foot/cane, rt hand- weak...

I've seen far worse.

Downsized small 357 mag/5 shot. 3 secs, 3 rounds...it over. Increase the playing field you know.

Lasers we learn in training are great..but also give away your location.so.

Lasers are way overrated, especially during the day. There are other, better, solutions.

I could use any advice. Thnx in adv

Am always glad to help any safe and responsible shooter! Always!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
Mr. Rancher-sir? I'm gonna have to take these slow and get back later.

Basically, I have chauffers lisc, other permits...can see ok...focusing seems an issue.

I cannot site-down anything with any accuracy. Both eyes are wonky...

I'll get back sir. Thnx very much. I do have questions too.

I appreciate the responses. I'm going with the internal laser bore sight to sight in. At this time, my reason is cost. Thank you all

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Happy New Year to You and Ms. FCDisc!...hope youre good. Thanks for taking my firearm sighting issue up!

Cane:
Bad rt leg, 45% strength and 30% r.o.m. Im only leaning on the cane, sure cant run. Need it for big stores, walks etc...That being said. Im still a responder at heart. Somethin goes down and Im jumpin in with everything swinging, "Katie bar the door"! Theyll just have to pick me up after...

Sighting-*Glock 45, Taurus 9mm, Ruger 357 Rev
I can see/sight the front and back, beyond, my target is blurry. One or the other. Clear rear to front and out...but beyond say 3 ft from muzzle...its o.o.focus.

Both hands are fine, singular and shooting stance from rt foot forward to sitting. (In a car, Ive switched to 11 oclock or 2 oclock position iwb so I can just drop my hand and draw.)

Rt shoulder rotation (I KNOW you know bout this!) and arthritis and severe tendonitis bad in right. In a pinch, Id be ok. But, its suffering some and the sub hand is ok, never used, weak of course w no other issues. Sorry you asked?

I just need to coordinate the left....and of course keep strengthening the right. And sighting? I can read music...but not gunsights!!! With on eye weak and a bit "lazy" and the other one off in the far sighted range...I dont know anymore how tojust to sight the damn things. Kinda defeats the purpose! *(Bow sighting is impossible too)

I have wanted to take a "Drawing from concealment" course...but I just cant get up if down. Its me a min....even getting in and out of car. Get me out? Im good..

So Mr. ClayDisc sir, I thank you for not laughing.....and any advice.*

*Who taught AUTOCORRECT how to?!!!

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Okay, so a couple suggestions, and a couple questions.

First, like I said previously, I've seen far worse issues so not only are you in luck, but I think you're going to be fine.

Which eye is far sighted, your right or left? Am I correct in assuming you're right handed? (We will get into eye dominance later).

Regarding stance, if you spread your legs slightly further apart are you more steady? (forget what direction you're facing for the moment).

I'm going to make some assumptions here, and I'll state what they are; please correct any which are incorrect. I'm going to assume your primary interest is in self-defense shooting, correct? Not some kind of sport shooting. I'm also going to assume that you can lift your right arm out straight in front of you (even if you need to assist it with your left hand), correct? If these two are correct, let's move on.

What I'm going to tell you next may seem a bit unconventional, but it works. Ignore your rear sight. I think you are attempting to focus too hard on your sights, rather than your sight picture. Focus on your target, then bring your pistol up into your sight picture. When the front sight covers center mass of the target, fire. Your brain will do the rest of the alignment after some practice. In CQB the rear sight is not nearly as important as the front one. A lot of people with vision issues struggle to align both sights on their pistol and then can't focus on their target (this is especially true with left eye dominant right handed shooters). Always keep your target in focus. If your left eye is the far sighted one, you might even try slightly closing your right eye, again keeping your target in focus. Don't worry, you'll see the front sight come up, even if it's not in perfect focus. As you level the pistol your brain will look for the front sight, and as you get it more level the rear sight will have a tendency to block it, but don't stop looking for the front sight. Again, after some practice you'll see that you will naturally align the pistol properly.

Next, and kind of hand in hand with the above; focus on your target, and then bring the pistol up vertically into that picture. So start with the pistol at low-ready and bring it up from there. Now we can start working on the shoulder issue (and yes, I know all about shoulder issues, as you correctly state).

Now assuming you can steady yourself with a little wider stance (from above), turn sideways to your target at 45 degrees or more, even up to as much as almost 90 degrees. As you draw your pistol keep your elbows bent and your pistol pointing downrange, but close to your body. So lets say you draw from a 3 o'clock holster position, you would bring your pistol out, then down range and then begin to raise it vertically along the button line of your shirt. As you get to about the bottom of your ribcage begin extending your arms outward. It's like a diagonal motion upward and outward. This can be done with one or both hands. The whole time keep your target in focus, don't look for your pistol. Just before your front sight comes up into your sight picture your right arm should be fully extended. Your left arm will not (because of the angle you are standing at to your target), and this is a good thing because it supports your right arm and shoulder. From there, raise the pistol vertically to your target. When the front sight covers center mass of the target, pull the trigger.

This is one area where I am not real fond of DA/SA pistols (unless you've had some serious trigger work done). The reason is, the first shot requires about 20x the amount of trigger pull that the second shot does, and this throws people off (in my mind it's also very dangerous). In these situations it's better to have a straight DA (something like a revolver) or a straight SA (something like a 1911). Hence why I carry in Condition 1 only (i.e. mag in, round chambered, hammer back and safety on.) With a DA/SA pistol you'll effectively be carrying in Condition 2 (mag in, round chambered, hammer down and safety on), and then immediately go from Condition 2 to Condition 0 (hammer back, safety off) for the second shot. The safety off and trigger pull essentially is Condition 1. Hence the danger. In a high stress situation, which self defense most definitely is, this can lead to an AD on the 2nd round. With a straight SA semi-auto you go from Condition 1 to Condition 0 just by switching the safety off, and then you stay in Condition 0 until you put the safety back on again (Condition 1). Much safer operation, especially in an extreme stress situation. But people get weird/uneasy about carrying in Condition 1 (and that discussion could go on for pages and pages alone).

Let me know if any of these things are helpful to you, and if you have any other questions.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Sir, you have no idea how much this helps. I will address each point/question ltr individually.

Almost all I can do 100%....not disabled in any real way in a dire situation. I'm divin in...no matter. But my limitations are becoming more prominent, and I'm sure a car handicapped plate isn't far off...

So, I'm functional in defense. And don't plan on any running gun battles....so let me get back.* Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mr. FCD.

*45 ACP-hand cannon, sighting tight group-not bad
*357 Magnum 5 shot revolver, equally not bad
9mm- also not bad

If you can just imagine drawing, sighting(blurry), and firing...Over 7 yards...nope