Did we just get a hello from aliens?

a reply to: Ross 54

It wouldnt always work that way because how they breakdown the em spectrum may be different from us. Lets look at the hertz it is simple one cycle per second. But the second was an arbitrary number we chose to represent time. We took an earth day divided by 24 hrs then decided an hour should have 60 min and these min should have 60 seconds. Another species on another planet would not have the same time as we do, they might have used 10000 oscilations of a hydrogen atom as their base. This means You are not going to get that 3 to 1 ratio. Your assuming they handle measuring em spectrum in hertz as well which i think is unlikely.

When ever your discussing aliens it is difficult not to humanise them humans are all we know so being our only reference we try to make them us. We have no idea what they will be like until we come to understand how they came to be. We wont truly communicate until we know what made their culture. Until them it will be like trying to read mayan it has to be interpreted instead of read.

originally posted by: Direne

I see what you mean. However, contrary to what is too much often stated, mathematics is not an universal language, no matter how much anthropocentric scientists insist.

Exactly. Consider that we humans (most frequently) represent the universe of counting numbers as base10 representation. Hmmm, I wonder why. base10 is not ideal for digital computing (base2 is perfect for modeling on/off state of a transistor/ICs). I would imagine other civilizations would likewise have their own numeric systems that are influenced by their physical reality and the technology they have evolved with (maybe their notion of circuitry is based on an element other than silicon that can support more than 2 positional states of information)

originally posted by: Direne
To start with, maths is plagued with conventions you must agree on before building anything useful upon them. Human conventions, by the way. Then we have the problem of the 'metalanguage' needed to describe the maths, the weird notation each species would use, plus the fact that there are extremely skilled engineers among animals who do not use maths at all. I wouldn't be surprised if, contrary to the general assumption, mathematics is just precisely the opposite: a tool used by primitive life forms.

Yeah I would imagine a cross-civilization primer for communicating would be more based on physical and cosmological constants (e.g. speed of light, atomic structure of different elements, the behavior of gravity) than formulae or proofs.

originally posted by: Direne
A civilisation is as limited as its mathematics is, some say. Others say a civilisation is as limited as their mathematicians are. In my view, I wouldn't trust any mathematics coming from beings who only have two eyes, perceive a limited part of the electromagnetic spectrum, have a limited thermal operational range, have a quite limited lifespan, eat sugar, and use water to fill swimming pools in a water-depleted planet.

Well, who knows, perhaps our counterparts in the Centauri system (which I don't really believe exist) are a race of cycloptic beings with 3 fingers on each hand, living in very cold climates, that swim in methane and subsist off a diet of hydrocarbons. Maybe then our maths won't seem so poor in comparison

originally posted by: Ross 54
A possible 'magic frequency' has been suggested, in relation to the Proxima Centauri signal. It's been noticed that it's frequency-- 982.002 MegaHertz -- is very nearly (within the margin of error imposed by a Doppler shift), just three times that of the radio spectral line of deuterium. Deuterium is, of course, the doubly heavy isotope of hydrogen.
The integer 3 seems significant in this specific context. The Alpha Centauri star system has three stars, of which Proxima is the least massive. This system looks similar to a model of a deuterium atom. The two Sun-like stars, which are near each other, serve for the relatively high mass single neutron and proton in the nucleus. They are orbited distantly by Proxima which would symbolize the relatively low mass single electron.

If I'm not mistaken, this very same notion of the signal frequency tied to the spectography of deterium was also raised in the podcast linked earlier in the thread.

I can imagine signal frequencies being representative of cosmological or elemental/atomic constants, but the idea of modeling the Centauri's solar system in the signal carier seems a bit of a stretch. How many other solar systems have the exact same star configuration? IMO tying their signal carrier to the specific spectoraphical signature of either the binary stars or Proxima (or all three) would be a better 'fingerprint' or introductory message than choosing deterium. But hey, it's all just speculation, so sure, tying the signal frequency to the composition of deterium is no less or more valid an idea than the others

Here they took the time to break down the signal

sites.psu.edu...

They are now saying it's artificial.

They're just not sure if it's an earthly signal.

originally posted by: reject
They are now saying it's artificial.

They're just not sure if it's an earthly signal.

Yes the odds are very much against a natural signal they tend to occur in multiple frequencies. This is confined if it is natural then we have no explination on how it could occur. Meaning it is possible its not artificial but it would rewrite our current understanding of science. So either way it will be interesting, however if they rule out an earth based signal this all but proves intelligent life because I doubt any natural process could create such a confined signal .

a reply to: dragonridr

it's a "tech" signal

It's their offworld base.

They're waiting to see what we do.

I think it's from a different neighbor 🤔.

originally posted by: reject
It's their offworld base.

They're waiting to see what we do.

I think it's from a different neighbor 🤔.

I dont think so it was unmodulated meaning carrying no information. Its just a tone much like a beacon it was not meant to talk to us. Im guessing side effect of some technolgy or maybe like a lighthouse??? Of course still could be a probe but the signal being unmodulated would make it useless.

a reply to: dragonridr

A lighthouse/beacon for us.

Probably an experiment/test for us.

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: dragonridr

A lighthouse/beacon for us.

Probably an experiment/test for us.

Yes, it's possible that advanced civilizations just regularly send out such signals that announce their existence, it's like introducing themselves to others.

And then they can just passively wait and see if any species are advanced enough to receive their signals, and understand it, and respond back.

It's like a basic test of a species' intelligence and tech advancement.

Humans, of course, are not at that stage of passing their little test.

a reply to: JamesChessman

My gut tells me they can and are observing us somehow.

Even if it's primarily a.i. I would think their creators would make protecting the creators the prime directive.

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: dragonridr

A lighthouse/beacon for us.

Probably an experiment/test for us.

But is the signal still out detectable? AFAIK it was a fleeting signal that was only detected for a relatively short time (I could be wrong)

If the phenomenon were a signal/beacon, I would imagine it'd be continuously broadcast and it would loop through the transmission sequence.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

We humans can be slow on the uptake. More advanced types don't take a hankerin' to repeating themselves.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: dragonridr

A lighthouse/beacon for us.

Probably an experiment/test for us.

But is the signal still out detectable? AFAIK it was a fleeting signal that was only detected for a relatively short time (I could be wrong)

If the phenomenon were a signal/beacon, I would imagine it'd be continuously broadcast and it would loop through the transmission sequence.

Maybe, but they also might do the opposite, and just release a signal once every 100 years or 1000 yrs, etc.

Because they'd basically be testing other species' overall advancement, if they can receive the signal, understand it, and respond.

We'd need more tech advancement, but also just overall progress as a species, including mentally / psychologically... before we'd get to the point that we have teams of scientists hanging around, combing the skies for alien signals, and then actually finding, translating, and responding.

Currently, humans are still basically living very much like animals, with most people struggling to survive and exist, everyday.

So they might as well just check with us every 1,000 yrs or so, because we're sure not getting there, anytime soon lol.

a reply to: JamesChessman

Ok since i like to speculate i will say i see three posibilities. An un modulated signal will have no information. So it could be a warning beacon much like a lighthouse on a rocky shore. The second option is it was simply a side effect of some technology they were using. And finnally the third option i can think of is its a navigational beacon of some kind. We do that on earth for planes they will broadcast tones the strength of the signal will tell you how close to the beacon you are.

As far as a test unlikely they have been watching our television and radi broadcast for a century if there are aliens in Proxima they know exactly our level of advancement. Unless of course they believe Star Trek to be real cant remeber the name of that comedy but they thought TV was real.

a reply to: dragonridr

Why would a test/experiment to see how humanity reacts to a first confirmed signal from an e.t. civilization be unlikely?

It's the most probable.

It's probably not their homeworld.

They're being cautious.

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: dragonridr

Why would a test/experiment to see how humanity reacts to a first confirmed signal from an e.t. civilization be unlikely?

It's the most probable.

It's probably not their homeworld.

They're being cautious.

Ok i could see that as a fourth option if they wanted to see how we reacted. But wouldnt sending us a message be better? Something beyond a doubt like maybe a video?

a reply to: dragonridr

In reality, it's not that simple.

Even on earth we have to know formats to properly decode files.

Mp3, mp4, Avi, wmv...etc.

We need to have STANDARDIZED hardware to process our own transmissions.

We wouldn't be able to make heads or tails of anything they send.

Other than a beacon, the best they could transmit would just be binary numbers.

a reply to: reject
To that i would argue they are 4 and a half light years from us. Meaning they have had 100 years to figure out how we broadcasr video. Assuming they are smart enough to travel im sure watching our tv would have took a couple of minutes.