Unable to audit where 670B taxpayer dollars went from last stimulus

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
And $600 dollars is the pittance our leaders think is good enough for us, while they collect their fat paychecks for doing the bare minimum and acting like bickering children.

That should make anyone mad. I'd like to hear your opinions, and if any of you think you can justify it let your voice be heard.

It is easy to see why they want us hating and fighting each other. If we weren't using up all that vitriol on things that we can't change, we may be using it on making them accountable, and removing every darn one of them from office.

Instead we have allowed them to shut down local Mom and Pop businesses, while we are forced to use big businesses supported by the government. Government run businesses because they hold the purse strings.

Makes Operation Jade Storm appear possibly in a different light. We thought we were smart enough to see the handwriting on the wall. We just didn't realize that we may have had a few errors in our translation and that we would not be smart enough to take heed.

So the only surviving businesses will be those that are surviving on government money, because the government has made sure that we don't have any.

Anytime we have to depend on the government to show up to help, we are screwed.

a reply to: Phage

I like how you're trying to dictate the flow of my thread. I'm the one who brought up stimulus money for individuals in the OP, and even if it doesn't directly pertain to the SBA loans or PPP I feel it is worth including in this thread and talking about as it's similar enough to warrant conversation.

I want to hear people's opinions on what I brought up in the OP, and you're trying to shut people down.

I'm not responding to you after this.

As for everyone else, keep it up. I want to hear what you have to say as far as it pertains to the article included in the OP and the impact on small businesses and personal stimulus checks.

Ok, Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

Carry on.

Wonder how many cases like this are waiting:

MINNEAPOLIS (FOX 9) - The Minnesota-based founder and CEO of a tech company has been arrested and indicted after he allegedly used federal Paycheck Protection Program money to build a pool and enrich himself
(...)
He claimed the company had been working since February, even though he did not create Kloudgaze until May 2020. He stated his new company had approximately 29 employees on the payroll even though records show he never paid any wages.

Link here

Sounds like getting a mortgage in 2007. "How much do you want?" and nobody's checking the paperwork...

That's all right. I'm getting a $17.oo raise on my Social Security coming next month.
That's a 6 dollar a month raise after I pay my Blue Cross Medicare premium every month. It went up $11.oo.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

ding..ding

You know gd well that's what that bs at walmart was all about a while back.
Training. Probably pandemic training.
It was interesting watching the 2 Walmarts here implement the covid stuff just about the day of.
The ropes, arrows, pre-recorded nazi talk on the intercom.

bam! all tactically ready for the coronacost

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
a reply to: JAGStorm

I couldn’t figure out how he could get that either but I am admittedly not smart in areas such as this. But it did burn my biscuits to read that he got that kind of money and the man wouldn’t even open his church doors to victims of a hurricane. He didn’t want them messing up his carpet and facilities. A foul individual indeed.

I just assumed if one was tax exempt then that meant you were exempt from help from the government. I’ll have to educate myself it seems.

I'm not crazy about churches getting that money, but if they qualify, they qualify.
I do think that might be some of the missing numbers. Sometimes systems don't talk and if they are tax exempt they
might not show up like an ordinary business.

originally posted by: Phage
Ok, Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

Carry on.

Quoted for delicious irony.

Time for an upgrade to your ones and zeros, you've become obsolete.

$230 Billion more and half the stimulus check...that sound you hear is Billions of dollars being slid into pockets by those that just voted to approve it.

originally posted by: gb540
Wonder how many cases like this are waiting:

MINNEAPOLIS (FOX 9) - The Minnesota-based founder and CEO of a tech company has been arrested and indicted after he allegedly used federal Paycheck Protection Program money to build a pool and enrich himself
(...)
He claimed the company had been working since February, even though he did not create Kloudgaze until May 2020. He stated his new company had approximately 29 employees on the payroll even though records show he never paid any wages.

Link here

Sounds like getting a mortgage in 2007. "How much do you want?" and nobody's checking the paperwork...

That's exactly what happened in 2007 (I work in the business) and what is happening now. Now you know why getting a mortgage is such a PITA now... people will lie to get money.

Rand Paul Explodes on Senate Floor about Stimulus Pork

This pretty much nails it.

The Stimulus Bill:

The gov’t closes the economy. You lose your job. You face eviction.

$600 for all your troubles.

Meanwhile, they send:

$135 million to Burma
$85.5 million to Cambodia
$1.4 billion for “Asia Reassurance Initiative Act.”
$130 million to Nepal

They hate you.

This will never change until people rise up and threaten violence..... I have never been an advocate of such extremes but I feel the well (maybe I should say the Swamp) is poisoned in Washington. If you can't go to Washington and protest in person, then go to the office or residence of your Representative in your home state. This bags of $@#% really don't think the American people will do anything about this nonsense. Show them how wrong they are.....

originally posted by: Phage

Unable to audit where 670B taxpayer dollars went from last stimulus

This is not an accurate statement. The article is referring to PPP loans. It is known exactly where those funds went. They went to the companies which applied for the loans through their banks.

What the audit shows, much to no one's surprise, is the SBA did not properly vet the loans. The probably also applies to the applications for forgiveness of the loans. The whole program was a rush job, full of loopholes.

Sorry, no, your assessment is not entirely accurate Phage.

JPMorgan investigates employees over potential coronavirus stimulus fraud

Yes, the program was a "rush job", and yes RIDDLED with loopholes. Nevertheless, if anyone thinks that government auditors, financial regulators or any other oversight party knows exactly where the funds went, and if anybody actually believes the bulk of it went to the companies that applied for the loan programs via banks, I have any number of bridges I'd like to interest you in purchasing; happy to accept your PPP proceeds or whatever credit you can muster.

The idea that the US Federal Government would entrust M@#$%ing PRIVATE BANKS to distribute any type of relief/stimulus program to US taxpayers was an absolute ATROCIOUS plan. Were there any honest people left in government, they would've lied down in the road using their bodies as a physical barrier to prevent this program from being administered thus.

Of all the sites on the World Wide Web, where the majority of us here acknowledge the toxic and evil influence banks have on society, it kind of surprises me that the very first place to search, the obvious culprit, for missing money wouldn't be the M@#$%ing PRIVATE BANKS.

These are the same banks that packaged up the most flimsy and horrific home loans into investment assets, sold said investment assets to customers, then made 'bets' (i.e. shorts) that the garbage investment assets they sold their customers would tank.

These are the same banks that, as the housing crises THEY instigated from above behavior heated up, would robo-process heaping stacks of mortgage documentation as fast as they could, leading to ridiculously inaccurate foreclosure proceedings where they attempted to initiate legal action against homeowners who never took one penny from them in a loan, and who in fact already owned their own home.

These are the same banks that had layers of management BUSTED for ordering loan processing/investigation workers to sit on loan documentation/relief applications, file it into a cabinet or a desk drawer, and let it collect dust until the homeowner was well on their way to getting kicked out of their home.

I could go on and on, not having even scratched the surface of putrescent behavior in the financial industry (e.g. Wells Fargo Account Fraud Scandal)

What kind of sick, demented masochists thought it'd be a good plan to let the foxes dole out food and medicine in the hen house??

Industry observers and watchdogs right from the drop knew that it was poor judgement, inadvisable, a blatant mistake to leave the processing of relief packages, loans, ANY type of assistance for the US public in the hands of banks.

Now we are seeing the consequences of that bad idea.

IDGAF how it's positioned to you, explained, rationalized, "the banks have the staffing, expertise, the know-how, the existing infrastructure to handle this type of mass fund management", it was begging for the money to be stolen, misappropriated, misplaced and lost track of.

It's like trying to transfer 12oz bottles of motor oil into your engine but pouring it through a sieve. Yeah, /some/ of it will end up in your motor, but an unacceptable amount will not.

Credit to OP for calling this out, and by all means, keep banging away at it. Most critically thinking people on this site understand why such a setup was bound for a Titanic ending, but unfortunately many folks get turned around and lost observing the forest through the trees.

If there's one thing to take away from perusing this site, it's to NEVER. TRUST. BANKS.

AND, to add injury to insult, as Uncle Same begins warming up, girding our (tax payers) collective loins to distribute MORE "relief" funds.... who do you think is poking their beaks down by the trough, eagerly awaiting the next slop bucket tranche of stimulus money to lap up?

The same groups that were unfairly enriched by the last round.

I believe I once heard it attributed to some guy...yeah, a saying...something about doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.......

Unable to audit where 670B taxpayer dollars went from last stimulus

Electing Joe Biden ?
Be my guess.

Oh , wait.
Most likely went to the Kennedy Arts Center.
Then to Joe's campaign.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

Yeah, the whole thing friggin reeks. Although, I don't think anyone is really going to do anything about it, I am curious if people in general are just going to keep taking it, or are people actually going to band together and say enough is enough and do something productive about it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: AutomateThis1

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

The money went to those who got the loans. The SBA cannot show how the recipients of the loans were vetted. Nor is it likely that they will be able to properly validate the applications for forgiveness.

Much to the surprise of no one.

My company applied and was funded through Bank of America. In our case, it was a 2 step approval process. We had to send all the documentation to BoA and after it met their criteria, it was sent to the SBA for approval. It was a nail-biting month long process. The forgiveness application process is the same. Documentation to BoA, then to the SBA, which is where I am in the process currently. The PPP money allowed us to keep over 30 full and part-time people on the payroll and we didn't have to reduce any staff or hours. Without the PPP funds, I doubt I would have been able to do that.

The magnitude and scale of the program and the time frame to implement it was unprecedented, but it was ultimately up to each bank to do their due diligence. The business owner is also signing banking and loan documents attesting to the need for the loan.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened
AND, to add injury to insult, as Uncle Same begins warming up, girding our (tax payers) collective loins to distribute MORE "relief" funds.... who do you think is poking their beaks down by the trough, eagerly awaiting the next slop bucket tranche of stimulus money to lap up?

The same groups that were unfairly enriched by the last round.

I believe I once heard it attributed to some guy...yeah, a saying...something about doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.......

The next PPP loans are only available to prior recipients if they experienced a 25% or greater loss for any quarter this year as compared to last year. They also tightened up other areas, including a maximum employee size of 300 vs 500, etc.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Supposedly ... according to Kansas senator elect who was interviewed on the radio not an hour ago ... about half the money for *this* bill was money for the last one that was never allocated or something.

a reply to: peter_kandra

That means almost no one will get them since the first round went to virtually no small businesses but to every place that wasn't a small business at all.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: peter_kandra

That means almost no one will get them since the first round went to virtually no small businesses but to every place that wasn't a small business at all.

I don't think that's completely accurate. Almost 75% of the loans were for under $150,000. They allowed millions of small businesses to keep their staff working. Was there fraud and abuse...sure. There was also tons of fraud and abuse in the non-PPP portion of the CARES act. How many billions are we up to that California sent to people in prison? How many people collected the extra $600 in federal unemployment and also worked under the table or had gig jobs?

SBA PPP Infographic