If you're White, did you know you're responsible for the Crimes of your Ancestors?

What level of off white must one achieve to skirt punishment for ancestors domination of less effective tribes?


We going back to the Clovis culture?

Oh you only like to play this game when you get to cherry pick?

Ah OK typical coward human behavior.

My sides perfect your side only bad lol.

I was not impressed by your performance.

a reply to: Lysergic
I'm not clear who you are responding to.

a reply to: Bluntone22

My momma wouldnt let me watch Madonna, yet she was fan. She said Marliyn Manson was the Devil, yet played those crazy song of guy who bit the head off a bat.


What about his hips, with their pelvic suggestions to once upon times youth?

And yet such foul play was in plain sight of my virgin eyes.

a reply to: CryHavoc

I am an Italian American, my ancestors were from Calabria, I am pretty sure, 99 percent sure that I descend from Roman Slaves. Can I sue Italy for reparations?

I am so white I am transparent.

I am a proud white person.

Thank you and good night.

originally posted by: Specimen88
a reply to: Bluntone22

My momma wouldnt let me watch Madonna, yet she was fan. She said Marliyn Manson was the Devil, yet played those crazy song of guy who bit the head off a bat.

It depends on age.

I'm playing Cyberpunk, but I won't let my 10-year-old near it. That doesn't mean I will never let him near it, just that I think it's not appropriate for him at his age. Somehow, I don't think a video game that has me running into a sex shop with dildo decor looking for a mentally damaged sex worker who's been enslaved to make snuff pr0n is something I want to tackle explaining to my kiddo right at the moment. It's a bit adult in theme for him.

Your momma probably had similar thoughts for you.

a reply to: Spider879

Thank you for that added information and I will agree that I was tarring and feathering all including rather more enlightened folk's such as yourself so for that I am sorry I meant no offense, it is a sad truth that all races of man are far from the saintly variety we want them to be.

By far the worst western imperialist power of all Europeans was the Belgians in the Congo were they committed crimes that rank alongside the NAZI holocaust.

Britain my nation was far from the saint I portray it but it did have the blessing of being the seat of the revolt AGAINST slavery and being the first European power to try to put an end to it, not only in the Atlantic but also in places such as the Red Sea, the Gulf of Oman and the Indian sea were just as western african nations indulged in the slave trade so too did eastern African nations.

People often also miss out on the point that Africa is actually the most genetically diverse region on the planet for humanity, there is not one single ethnicity of sub-Saharan African's but in fact a huge variety and more genetic variation within that region of the world than in the entire rest of the world combined, I hate the use of the term RACE in reference to a person's skin colour since there is only one single human race but it is a fact that there are many ethnicity's, many ethnicity's of African's, of East Asian's of South East Asian's, of Eurasians' and of European's as well as more than one ethnicity of the native American's that have survived the genocidal colonization of there homeland.

I just hate racism regardless of which corner it comes out of, I do not hate nationalism that is not about race but sadly racists will adopt that and use it for there own agenda.

Being British I am on an island, there is an old saying a girl in every port, that goes both way's and many sailors from many parts of the world over the thousands of years that humanity has lived in these British Isles have visited and sampled the local night life, many of them undoubtedly left behind more than just memories.

I remember a genetic survey of Cumbria where to there surprise they found some of the men whom had no idea that they had any African ancestry turned out to have African Ancestors but it was later surmised though not proven that this may have gone back as far as the Roman's, more than likely it was just a few century's back and that ancestry was from former Slaves within the UK, Scotland was the last part of the UK to abolish slavery and took years to follow the English example since they have there own government and laws so it is also possible that these people could have traced there ancestry to Scotland and of course since long before slavery was a thing black merchant's were visiting and even living within the British isles, racism was never really a thing in the past however and only seems to have gained traction and a psychological hold after the invention of Darwinian evolution when slaver's tried to suggest that African's were somehow less human and more like animal's in order to justify the horrendous treatment and exploitation that these people were committing against there fellow man, the stink of that propaganda sadly still lingers to this day since it was sadly also educated to children and is one of the fallacy's of the Victorian era that gave rise to such abominations as Eugenics and Nazism.

The truth is if everyone eats the same, has the same education, lives together then there is no difference, the real difference arises out of our tendency to group with people we see ourselves in, being shallow we literally look for those that look more like us half the time, the more astute look into the actual person and do not give a damn what a person look's like.

None of us are a RACE apart and that very connotation is wrong and suggests a group of inbreeds but rather we are all one race the human race and the sooner we learn to see that the better, that probably won't happen until our lord return's however.

a reply to: LABTECH767

The sad thing is that secularists try to abolish religion which mostly does try to teach the principles you talk about -- seeing the inner, spiritual person more than the external on which level all are the same.

But, you know, the secularists say we don't need that anymore because it's old, superstitious nonsesnse.



Too bad they toss all that wisdom.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Lysergic
I'm not clear who you are responding to.

The whole stupid idea of the thread, I'm not responsible for # I didn't do, anyone who thinks otherwise can choke themselves vigorously.

a reply to: LABTECH767
I respect your views, and the fact that both of us understand that we all have complex histories and there are no cookie cutter approach to any of this.

originally posted by: Lysergic

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Lysergic
I'm not clear who you are responding to.

The whole stupid idea of the thread, I'm not responsible for # I didn't do, anyone who thinks otherwise can choke themselves vigorously.

And thus the problem with the idea of collective salvation. Ain't nobody can be saved unless all can be saved. They stop thinking of themselves as themselves and instead identify as the group identity.

And you and I don't get to be you and I, individual entities, we get lumped in with all the white people who ever were, are, and will be. So it doesn't matter one whit what we did or didn't do. It matters what whites as a group did, and that makes us dirty, filthy racists. You know ... guilt by association, just like they're all suddenly victims by association in similar manner.

a reply to: CryHavoc

I'm racist, I hate horse racing.

originally posted by: Lysergic
I'm not responsible for # I didn't do

You and me both. But the article I linked says that makes us responsible for our Ancestors for thinking that.

There are some prominent black people who bear my English surname. This is a strong indication that some of my ancestors were slave owners.

I know for a fact that one of my ancestors was a prominent abolitionist. My middle name comes from him.

Yet another ancestor of mine was a citizen of the Kingdom of Hawaii (The only state which had been a Kingdom, a Constitutional Monarchy). He was the harbor master of Honolulu and was highly regarded by citizens and King. That Kingdom was later overthrown by the work of American "businessmen."

So, what's my point? Just this. Some of my ancestors did bad things. Some did good. We can't right the wrongs but when those wrongs are carried across generations and can be attributed to causing inequities it can't be ignored. Some Hawaiians seek to restore the Monarchy. This is, of course, absurd. But a mechanism is in place (a very poorly administered mechanism) to recompense the Hawaiians for what was taken from them by the "businessmen," their identity as a nation.

No. I'm not "responsible" for what happened. We, as Americans, are. I'm ambivalent about monetary reparations. But I do know that they wouldn't be coming from "me", but all of us. Including, ironically, those who may receive them.

a reply to: Phage

Why?

The best way to recompense as you say is to make the American system accessible to all as much as possible. That does not mean giving to some at the expense of others. That's not the American system as we discovered when to kept from some to the advantage of others. If it was wrong one way, it's wrong the other one too.

You cannot life some at the expense of others without causing problems, if our history has taught us nothing else, it should have taught us this. To continue on with that won't make any of it any better now but only make the problems worse and more pronounced. Those from whom you take will only resent it and those to whom you give won't feel gratitude, only entitlement.

You cannot deny this is true, and at some point, it will all have to stop or else we tear ourselves apart. And right now, it looks like it may be happening, so it may all be too late.

a reply to: ketsuko

Those from whom you take will only resent it and those to whom you give won't feel gratitude, only entitle

Jewish folks feel entitled??? Did Japanese American folks felt entilted?? are Americans generally resentful of theml???.. or is the blow back only if AAs got recompense for not even slavery which was legal, But a better case imo for post slavery dis- inheritance and wrongs... E.g. GI Bill post WW2 which was instrumental in building the American middle class, denied to AAs military men who fought.

Or the great society bill even earlier than that ,which skipped over AAs, ...Like What are we gonna do, wait till the clock ran out on these folks ,and tell their direct defendants that they are undeserving.
As I said earlier Slave owners got theirs and their descendant in UK was still pulling checks up till 2015.

a reply to: Spider879

How long have African Americans been getting recompense in the form of social programs targeted mainly at them?

How much resentment in society has this caused?

Has it actually helped or has it only made things worse, and if we suddenly made one time, lump sum payout based on skin color and skin color alone because that seems to be the sole determinant at work here, then would all those other things end? Would that be the absolute end of any and all whining?

I think you know the answers to that.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

How long have African Americans been getting recompense in the form of social programs targeted mainly at them?

How much resentment in society has this caused?

Has it actually helped or has it only made things worse, and if we suddenly made one time, lump sum payout based on skin color and skin color alone because that seems to be the sole determinant at work here, then would all those other things end? Would that be the absolute end of any and all whining?

I think you know the answers to that.

Like what?? social programs were made to look like it was, but in reality it was for poor folks in general, including white females who benefited the most, and those social programs are not Reparations! again things that seemed to favors AAs will be done away with.4 Acres + a Mule??.
How decades of US welfare policies lifted up the white middle class and largely excluded Black Americans
www.businessinsider.com...

Look my point is anyone but American Blacks will faced very little opposition, that goes way beyond opposition through economic consideration, wanna kill a help poor ppl bill??? . Just .say black ppl will benefit.

I read somewhere that far more African Americans are actually descended from slave owners than white people.

When you consider that the average African American is 22 - 28% European (they are essentially mixed race). And A very small percentage of actual white Americans have slave owning ancestors.

originally posted by: Phage
Yet another ancestor of mine was a citizen of the Kingdom of Hawaii (The only state which had been a Kingdom, a Constitutional Monarchy). He was the harbor master of Honolulu and was highly regarded by citizens and King. That Kingdom was later overthrown by the work of American "businessmen."

Can you be a little bit more specific? As I understood it, the overthrow was arranged by moving in 'white settlers' who were willing to rise up against the Queen, and that it was John Watson Foster, then Secretary of State who orchestrated the whole thing, including ordering in US troops to 'restore' order. I know that Foster then went on to become a powerful "proto-lobbyist" (as Stephen Kinzer describes it) but I haven't as yet come across who he was working for in arranging the Hawaiian overthrow, before he was given all that subsequent power to enable him to direct his clients interests in Washington and abroad.

Thanks.