Brexit: Horrible feeling Boris is going to cave in

a reply to: crayzeed

I think everyone realises the benefits of a Free Trade Association - which is what the British people voted to join.
Political union wasn't on the agenda and the British people have NEVER been comfortable with the principle behind it.

This debate was done to the nth degree during the Brexit campaign.

The fact is that the UK is coming out of the EU and no amount of moaning is going to change that.

So in the here and now its all about getting the best deal for the UK that doesn't tie us to the EU in any way shape or form.
Yes, we want to trade with them.
And yes, we want to have good relations with them.
We still have many shared interests.

The EU is just acting like a spurned lover because we have had the temerity to break up with them.

Practicality, common sense and shared interests should take priority over political ideology and the desire to 'punish'.

I really fail to see who benefits from the stance the EU is taking, certainly not the ordinary men and women of both the UK and the EU.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: andy06shake

A complete no deal will sink the nation into a recession the likes of which we have yet to witness Freeborn.

We've been hearing these prophesies of doom and gloom since the Brexit referendum was first mentioned.
Night still follows day and the world keeps turning, nothing much has changed in that respect.

I have no doubt there will be a certain amount of short term economic suffering.
But let's face it, I'm 55 years old and that's all I've ever really known here in the North East.
Personally I think that a bit more short term pain will definitely be worth the long term gain for my Grandson and his generation.
To be free of the EU shackles and dictates will make it all worth while.

But I can't see the effects of Brexit being as bad as the fear mongers and doomsayers repeatedly predict.
Again just my personal opinion, but I think the fall out from the coronavirus outbreak and the inept management of it by Boris et al could well be more damaging.
A conversation for another thread possibly.

You know i dont imagine you to be a draft arse Britain First type Nigel Farage wannabe.

I know that mate, I was merely trying to make the point that not all, in fact I'd say the vast majority of, Brexit supporters are these ill informed, ignorant, racist, xenophobes that staunch Remainers still insist on trying to portray them as.
Far from it.

But you also know how i feel about Brexit and you how i feel about no-deal whatsoever in place nor lightly to be one.

I do and I respect that.
But the FACT is we are going to leave the EU, that is no longer open to debate.
And its imperative that we get a good deal.
A bad deal that ties us unfavourably to the EU and gives them the upper hand will be far more detrimental long term to this country than a No Deal that allows for further negotiations down the line when both sides see the ramifications of their respective actions and posturing.

We can not allow the EU to have undue influence on UK affairs, that was the whole point of the referendum.
Yes, it seems Boris and his team have been quite ineffective in their negotiating tactics etc but I've really got to say that the EU have been thoroughly unreasonable and quite intimidating.
They are taking a punitive sort of approach seemingly in order to deter any other member states from acting in the same way as the UK.
They simply can not be allowed to succeed.

Brexit happening, i get that, for the better or worse, but it will be worse for quite some time to come.

Probably.....but it'll hardly be akin to some sort of economic dark age as so many of the Remainers seem to think.

We are a resolute, creative and resourceful people.
One way or another we'll be fine.

In my opinion none of it matters because we all know full well that when Labour inevitably get back into power at the next election, they are going to join us straight back into the single market and up to EU rules.

Real brexit will never happen

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese

originally posted by: Freeborn

A bad deal that ties us unfavourably to the EU and gives them the upper hand will be far more detrimental long term to this country than a No Deal that allows for further negotiations down the line when both sides see the ramifications of their respective actions and posturing.

We're going to get a bad deal from any economy or trading bloc bigger than us. All we have to offer is financial services and a market of 70 million people. Cold economic fact.

I'm the same age as you and remember the 80s. Thing is, it wasn't the EU that shafted you up north. It was the same people you're trusting to see you alright in the future. What makes you think they've changed?

Oh seriously give it a rest. Why were we all expected to subsidise the poxy miners and other lazy bastards who were constantly out on strike, you could buy coal cheaper anywhere in the world then here in this country.

The North need to get over this obsession with hating Thatcher and the tories. If you had got of your lazy arses it wouldn't have been a problem. I remember the '3 day week' very well.

a reply to: fusionfilm

Boris is playing them like a fish.
The Uk government is laughing at the EU

No deal is Imminent but Boris needs for them to walk away ... or stay unreasonable right up in til 31/12

I have to know.

Do any of you Brits call him Boris the Spider?

a reply to: fusionfilm

In my opinion none of it matters because we all know full well that when Labour inevitably get back into power at the next election, they are going to join us straight back into the single market and up to EU rules.

And why would that happen?

If Labour do get elected at the next election - something that isn't the inevitable certainty you seem to assume it is - they need to regain the seats they lost in The North - the so called Red Wall.
A very large portion of these seats voted heavily in favour of Brexit.
If Labour proposed to re-join the ESM without protecting UK rights and interests they would never regain these seats and so would never be elected.

a reply to: Freeborn

I hope so Freeborn.

Some of us might not be through.

I'll be ok, i don't really know how to fail, well not at surviving and treading water any road.

I just hope we help, and that there is help available, for those that require such.

And knowing Tories for what they are im thinking rather a few poor souls are going to be ignored, swept under the carpet, and consigned to oblivion.

Anyhoo it happening so gloves on i imagine, ding, ding round one in January. LoL

Edit: One thing i would add, given the complete and utter fiasco the current administration has made where the likes of COVID 19 and lockdown procedures are concerned, what makes you think the same silly Tory cockwombles will do any better with the likes of a no-deal Brexit scenario?

Coz they are not exactly inspiring confidence imho.

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Not on this island we did not.

Do your homework son.

Learn how close we were to the brink.

Because without convoy ships and resupply the majority of people on the island would have starved to death.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: crayzeed
Obviously you all haven't got the message. My son and daughter work for a large haulage company and they've been having reminders about the new export paperwork that's gotta be filled in. No paperwork, no sailey.
If non of you have ever realised the vast majority of French vehemently hate the British, always have, always will.

Good point there are also additional admin costs, not just tariffs to take into account.

Can't say I ever found the French to hate the British exactly...

Actually the French and the Scottish get on quite well, the Auld Alliance and all that.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Personally I just hope this leads to Scottish independence.

You just had to didn't you.

And you were doing so well up to that point!

I have done a full 180 on independence back in 2014 I voted to remain.

I did wonder, I thought you and I had disagreed on that topic back in the day. Glad to have you on board. What did it for you?

originally posted by: Phage
I have to know.

Do any of you Brits call him Boris the Spider?

I call him BawJaws

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: crayzeed
Obviously you all haven't got the message. My son and daughter work for a large haulage company and they've been having reminders about the new export paperwork that's gotta be filled in. No paperwork, no sailey.
If non of you have ever realised the vast majority of French vehemently hate the British, always have, always will.

Good point there are also additional admin costs, not just tariffs to take into account.

Can't say I ever found the French to hate the British exactly...

Actually the French and the Scottish get on quite well, the Auld Alliance and all that.

That was the point I was going for.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Personally I just hope this leads to Scottish independence.

You just had to didn't you.

And you were doing so well up to that point!

I have done a full 180 on independence back in 2014 I voted to remain.

I did wonder, I thought you and I had disagreed on that topic back in the day. Glad to have you on board. What did it for you?

Haha probably a post for another thread

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Personally I just hope this leads to Scottish independence.

You just had to didn't you.

And you were doing so well up to that point!

I have done a full 180 on independence back in 2014 I voted to remain.

I did wonder, I thought you and I had disagreed on that topic back in the day. Glad to have you on board. What did it for you?

Haha probably a post for another thread

a reply to: fusionfilm

Oh seriously give it a rest. Why were we all expected to subsidise the poxy miners and other lazy bastards who were constantly out on strike,.....

They were on strike for a reason; their jobs, their livelihoods, their families, their communities and their way of life.

Everything, and I mean, everything Scargill said would happen has indeed happened.
Whole communities destroyed and abandoned.

The UK coal mining industry wasn't dismantled and shut down because of economic necessity but for ideological reasons and to prove a point.

They weren't 'poxy miners', they were real people with real families and they were discarded and thrown on the scrap heap just so that Thatcher could prove she had bigger balls than any of her male colleagues.

And they certainly weren't 'lazy bastards', they were hard working men.
Proper grafters.

I suspect you wouldn't have lasted five minutes at the coal face.

But every pit has been shut down now.
Nearly every one of them flooded and beyond saving despite there being plenty of coal there.

The ironic thing is Thatcher - the big anti-communist - was so desperate to destroy the partly subsidised British coal industry that she bought coal in from East Germany and Poland; coal that was 100% subsidised by the very communist regimes she allegedly despised.
Hypocrisy and double standards of the highest order.

At the time Thatcher used the UK police force as her own personal strike busting mob who used all sorts of illegal methods including agent provocateurs deliberately stirring up violence etc.
Many of the illicit police operations were made possible due to information illegally obtained by MI5 on British subjects.

MSM was utilised to portray striking Miners as the personification of socialist malcontents more interested in subverting the British way of life rather than as people just trying to protect their livelihoods and way of life.

All planned and co-ordinated in accordance with The Ridley Plan.

.... you could buy coal cheaper anywhere in the world then here in this country.

Yes, the vast majority of it being 100% subsidised from communist regimes.

The North need to get over this obsession with hating Thatcher and the tories.

We hate them for a good reason; they've never done a #ing thing for us.
I could list the things that Thatcher did which we are still paying the price for now but it'd make this post unbearably long.

Start a thread about her and I'll gladly contribute.

If you had got of your lazy arses it wouldn't have been a problem.

Pretty ironic really, those strikes were about people wanting to work but the government wanted to stop them.

I remember the '3 day week' very well.

So do I, the home shadow puppet shows were great.

Your whole post reeks of the arrogance and ignorance that typifies so many from London, it's environs and The Home Counties etc.
The 'I'm alright Jack', smug, conceited and self-centred attitude that afflicts so many of you and which makes literally everyone hate the English despite most of us feeling exactly the same about you lot.

Fortunately I know enough Londoners/Southerners to know that you all aren't the wankers that most up here and everywhere else in the UK believe.

a reply to: andy06shake

....what makes you think the same silly Tory cockwombles will do any better with the likes of a no-deal Brexit scenario?

I don't.
Why do you think I would?

I really thought I'd made my opinion of Boris and his gang of incompetents perfectly clear and I know that you know me far better than to think that! lol.

It would help if Boris's negotiating team didn't solely consist of privately educated, Oxbridge graduate Civil Servants who have never had a real job between them in their lives and/or the EU side weren't all career Eurocrats more concerned with pursuing a political agenda than doing what is best for the people they are supposed to represent.

ScepticScot:

No it is much worse than a normal seasonal virus. You are either misinformed or lying, either way please stop.

Conceited much? What makes you the expert? The stats (even the over-inflated ones) still place Sars-CoV-2 as no more lethal than any other other virus capable of killing susceptible persons. The worst thing about this Covid fiasco is the fear response of people to people who either sneeze or cough, or don't wear a mask, or don't comply to government and medical instructions.

I have had to take a full week off work because I came down with a heavy cold, and I now have a chest infection. I volunteered myself to take a Covid Swab test by the NHS, and I have just received both an email and a text message about an hour a go, informing me that my results were negative. I am classed as an essential worker, and have worked all through the Covid circus. I took the test not because I was scared I might have it, but because of my colleagues shutting me out from their cooperation out of fear that I might have it. Now I have proof I never did. I hoping to go back to work this coming Tuesday, but I need to improve in my condition before I do.

It is estimated that over 1 billion people world-wide get flu every year, and not a mask or lockdown in sight. There have been just over 75 million confirmed cases of Covid. Deaths from Flu can be anywhere between 250,000 to 650,000 a year, (that's any year), whereas for Covid there has been reported just over 1.6 million deaths, and that includes large conflated figures.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org...

The point being is that Covid isn't any worse than any other virus that can kill susceptible people. With the flu, medical staff won't kill you by blowing your lungs out with a ventilator (even when the ventilator doesn't explode as one did in Turkey, killing 8 patients).

I'm not lying, no need to, and I'm not misinformed. Please stop with your fear mongering.

a reply to: elysiumfire

The point being is that Covid isn't any worse than any other virus that can kill susceptible people.

It is really good at stressing health care systems. Even in Sweden.

“We are following our strategy”, he said. “Now we see that we need to do more because we see that the spread of the infection is too serious and we have a strained situation in the healthcare system still.”

www.reuters.com...

originally posted by: elysiumfire
ScepticScot:

No it is much worse than a normal seasonal virus. You are either misinformed or lying, either way please stop.

Conceited much? What makes you the expert? The stats (even the over-inflated ones) still place Sars-CoV-2 as no more lethal than any other other virus capable of killing susceptible persons. The worst thing about this Covid fiasco is the fear response of people to people who either sneeze or cough, or don't wear a mask, or don't comply to government and medical instructions.

I have had to take a full week off work because I came down with a heavy cold, and I now have a chest infection. I volunteered myself to take a Covid Swab test by the NHS, and I have just received both an email and a text message about an hour a go, informing me that my results were negative. I am classed as an essential worker, and have worked all through the Covid circus. I took the test not because I was scared I might have it, but because of my colleagues shutting me out from their cooperation out of fear that I might have it. Now I have proof I never did. I hoping to go back to work this coming Tuesday, but I need to improve in my condition before I do.

It is estimated that over 1 billion people world-wide get flu every year, and not a mask or lockdown in sight. There have been just over 75 million confirmed cases of Covid. Deaths from Flu can be anywhere between 250,000 to 650,000 a year, (that's any year), whereas for Covid there has been reported just over 1.6 million deaths, and that includes large conflated figures.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org...

The point being is that Covid isn't any worse than any other virus that can kill susceptible people. With the flu, medical staff won't kill you by blowing your lungs out with a ventilator (even when the ventilator doesn't explode as one did in Turkey, killing 8 patients).

I'm not lying, no need to, and I'm not misinformed. Please stop with your fear mongering.

So using your own figures, even with all the preventative measures and that this is a new virus, it has already killed 2.5x more than the upper case estimate for flu.

Covid is killing way people than flu.

a reply to: elysiumfire

What makes this particular virus different is that it is highly infectious and there is/was no cure.

Without any precautions far more people will catch this than they would most other viruses and as a result hospital cases would rise exponentially.

We'll never know just how effective the precautions that have been put in place have been but surely you see that if it had been left to run its course naturally then far more people would have been hospitalised and died than have been so far?