Star Trek, Star Wars and UFOlogy

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Fun thread.

Star Trek is the media love of my life!

I think the Federation of Planets isn't all that different than the Empire in a lot of ways. The story is simply told from a different perspective. Few people think of themselves as the villain. Certainly, the Empire thinks of itself as the good guys.

Certainly the Maquis thinks the Federation and its Star Fleet is insidious. Sisko poisoned an entire planet to rid it of a Maquis settlement.

Captain Picard forced often imposed Federation ideals onto other species while maintaining the "Prime Directive" facade.

Janeway destabilized the Delta Quadrant and left many cultures in ruins in the name of Federation Values.

How many wars have they waged? The Dominion war was the result of Star Fleet's superiority complex and the complete disregard for Dominion territory.

On more than one occasion they attempted complete genocide against their enemies.

Of course, the story as we all know and love presents it from Star Fleet's perspective, so we view them as the good guys.

Long point made short we'll go the Federation route, but we will be perceived by many something akin to the Empire.

In terms of UFOlogy certainly there is correlation, but perhaps there isn't terribly much causation between the two.

Star Wars is just more easier to digest then Star Trek, short an sweet, an the to it special effects an that plot twist for it time. Took me a while to force myself to watch the original Star Trek at first, cause it was the only thing that was on in the mornings.

After Kirk fought the Lizard, I was sold, then got more into the other series later. Thing is though, Star Trek has had more of impact on technology then Star Wars ever will. It literally like choosing between science an a religion.

Vallee on one hand did try to correlate that Ufos an Aliens change with the times. Like from being mythical supernatural/magical creatures, to little green men in space suits using science.

Star Wars is about Ancient Astronauts.
It is not about the future.
It is about the past.

originally posted by: EnigmaChaser
a warring, violent, dystopian future in Star Wars?

DUNE is about the Future.
As it takes place over 10,000 years in Earths future.
Of course it is the best selling science fiction novel ever.
And of course a dozen years later George Lucas stole/copied/lifted parts of it to create Star Wars.

Spice = Force
Paul = Luke
Dune =


I do not have time to point out all of that, but I think I can find a video that might.

Star Wars is a magical tale for children.
Star Trek is hard science fiction for old people.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Arguably you are correct however I would say that Star Wars is in some way's more realistic (though neither is realistic let's be fair) and Star Trek is more utopian future socialist society with food making machines that create food out of thin air and energy.

Also Star Wars has faster ship's.


And Glow Stick's.

One of my favorite examples from the vision of fantasy back then in Star Trek to today’s reality in your homes...... Flat Screen!

From TOS Star Trek S03E21 Requiem for Methuselah

Original air date: February 14, 1969

Huge trekkie here BUT, if I look at the world right now and how things are playing out it's leaning more towards a Mad Max scenario rather than a technological one.

I think the question should be, "Is our future going to be closer to"The Road" or "Mad Max"?"

Sorry, I just don't see us riding off into the sunset in outer space.

originally posted by: Never Despise
I think the question should be, "Is our future going to be closer to"The Road" or "Mad Max"?"

Sorry, I just don't see us riding off into the sunset in outer space.

Roaring into the darkness in a rusted wreckage while wearing your flesh leather and screaming "your blood will be my lotion" to your next murder victim/dinner.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
One of my favorite examples from the vision of fantasy back then in Star Trek to today’s reality in your homes...... Flat Screen!

There's an older "flat screen" in a 1936 movie.

In the movie "Things to come", written by H. G. Wells and based on his 1933 book "The shape of things to come".

In it we can see, among other things, a transparent, flat screen, in two versions, a large one and a smaller, desktop version.







You can see them starting at 1:12:15 on the video below.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Blue Shift

Arguably you are correct however I would say that Star Wars is in some way's more realistic (though neither is realistic let's be fair) and Star Trek is more utopian future socialist society with food making machines that create food out of thin air and energy.
Also Star Wars has faster ship's.
And Glow Stick's.

Star Trek relies on non-existent technologies such as teleporters (which includes replicators as small transporters that create things from stored patterns and raw materials), warp drive, subspace (which apparently is way faster than warp speed), and a few other fancy gadgets like phasers, but it doesn't rely heavily on what is basically the "magic" of something the Force. Vulcans and Betazoids among others are psychic, apparently, but not telekinetic like a Jedi.

The Star Trek crew is primarily concerned with exploration and politics. The whole point of Star Wars, though, is that people have to make correct moral decisions to "bring balance to the Force." I guess that's the primary difference I see, and why I see Star Wars as mostly a moral tale for children. Adults know that right and wrong are not always that cut and dried, so some days the difference between the Light and Dark sides of the Force are hard to distinguish. Star Trek often runs into this ambiguity. Do we have a right to interfere with a planet's own course of development? Are we sure our way is better? That's more of an adult take.

originally posted by: ArMaP

Yes the flats are there.... I started to watch the vid and as I did... it looked familiar. And now I remember long ago I turned to a late night channel that was playing it...I came in about ten minutes in and just nodded out to sleep. Thanks to you, I finally watched the whole thing.

Seems to me, Elon is using some of the whole technology to the the moon, to space, or nothing, ideology of the film.

I enjoyed it... thx 👍🏼🍺

a reply to: Blue Shift

The Alcubierre drive is as close as we have gotten to creating a real space warping scientific theory, it may work but so far we have not figured out how to stop the vessel so moved so that requires another theory.

Teleportation, I share the same misgiving's as the fictional Bones in the recent motion picture, the difference is in Star Trek the atom's are CONVERTED into ENERGY and sent to there destination with no need of a receiver but current Teleportation theory states that only Information can be sent not matter and so a receiver is required, it is not true teleportation as well since it consists of destroying the original item (or killing the original person) and then sending the information on how they were built at the sub molecular level up to some kind of glorified universal constructor in the receiver which would then be able to rebuild a COPY of the original at the intended target area were the receiver of course has to already be.

We do have the potential for Quantum teleportation to someday give us a loophole to allow us to move matter but so far that is not even theoretical, however if we do it may also offer another mean's of propulsion - actually not propulsion but spacial displacement that would rival the warp drive, I prefer this idea as it would mean no destruction of the original and the original simply being moved from point a to point b in a quantum exchange.

Then there are other potential avenues to explore, interdimensional, wormhole (Star Gate and of course The Expanse or is that a dimensional gateway'(s)?), fold space - perhaps the father or real world warp theory - etc all of which provide alternative but still far beyond our capability and only borderline theoretical methods of moving through space and time and getting from point a to point b relatively speaking much more rapidly than moving through space on our own dimension.

For me I enjoy Star Wars more, I leave my scientific mind at the door and enjoy the fantasy, Star Trek is a great show and I would argue that it must have partially inspired star wars at some level since it also borrowed from other sources such as Dune but mostly from Flash Gordon.

Often science fiction predicts the future OR does it inspire it, calculators, mobile phones, laptop computers etc.

Well, this is the whole burrito about the Nine.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And I think that ST, in all its forms, is about humanity. SW is about a hero and herm’s journey to that state.

Why the “either/or” option??

That is so 1950s that I might call this post a pay-op!!

Really!

Some deep reading into Joseph Campbell and you get the SWs oeuvre. Star Trek is a bit different.

My point is that it is not one or the other but both! At once. Science needs consciousness like an addict needs drugs (and why some stories ‘feed’ on themselves) and sci-fi is a question that does not necessarily need either an answer or even understanding!!

That is literature (even if in TV form... or movie form).

These are ideas. And both demand respect. And as such, both could be right. Or both be wrong!

That is the Idea world.

Trek is hopeful. Wars... we just want the good guys to win!





Great topic!! And I have a Mew Hope that the conversation will live long and prosper!!

🖖🏻

originally posted by: Never Despise
I think the question should be, "Is our future going to be closer to"The Road" or "Mad Max"?"

Sorry, I just don't see us riding off into the sunset in outer space.

C'mon Elon, please prove us wrong. All we need is a fusion reactor.

a reply to: Beestie

Easy peasy.
And then, 3He from the Moon slave miners.

Or...maybe...
Let There Be Light

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Beestie

Easy peasy.
And then, 3He from the Moon slave miners.

Or...maybe...
Let There Be Light

Reminds me of the movie Moon.

Here ya go....



Lunar Land

Be a Lunar Baron 🍺

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I think I remember that there was a private company selling land on the moon it did not actually own and some pretty famous people actually paid them for some plot's on the off chance that someday it may actually be worth something or just for the hell of it because they had too much money or something.
Big Scam but a popular one as far as some celebrity's buying it's fake land deed's is concerned.