Joe Biden: “How I Learned To Love The New World Order” 1992 Wall Street Journal

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

a reply to: Michielli

For me, it's not the reality of our slowly developing globalization as it is that I find such a push against it. Our real problem is not that globalization is being pushed, because it is happening in any event, rather it has been our inability to bring forth leaders who will organize it for the betterment of all of us.

We agree. The natural progression is globalization (not the NWO conspiracy).

The problem is doing it right.

Not sure I understand your post....I don't know who we is but I don't agree on that. I do respect your right to agree. In my opinion the Globalist agenda is the New World Order used to be conspiracy now out in the open and rebranded.

Maybe I missed something about what you are saying?

a reply to: Michielli

This is a paragraph from the article -

"But most Americans, myself included, reject 1930s-style isolationism. They expect to see the strong hand of American leadership in world affairs, and they know that economic retreat would yield nothing other than a lower standard of living. They understand further that many security threats - the spread of high-tech weapons, environmental degradation, overpopulation, narcotics trafficking, migration - require global solutions. "


Why would the US minding it's own business result in a lower standard of living for Americans... not sure I understand that... thoughts anyone?

originally posted by: MarkOfTheV
a reply to: Michielli

This is a paragraph from the article -

"But most Americans, myself included, reject 1930s-style isolationism. They expect to see the strong hand of American leadership in world affairs, and they know that economic retreat would yield nothing other than a lower standard of living. They understand further that many security threats - the spread of high-tech weapons, environmental degradation, overpopulation, narcotics trafficking, migration - require global solutions. "


Why would the US minding it's own business result in a lower standard of living for Americans... not sure I understand that... thoughts anyone?

For me a global solution to any particular problem does not require in any way dissolution of national and personal sovereignty. Looks like a candy coated rationalization for consolidation of power. 2 cents.

a reply to: Michielli

I'm reminded of this scene from Charlie Wilsons War (great fawkin' movie to those who haven't seen it)



"This is what we always do... we go in, with our ideals, and we change the world. And then we leave. We always leave. That ball though... it keeps on bouncin'. "

a reply to: Michielli

The idea you put forth that somehow the next and only obvious step in human evolution, Globalism, is a foregone conclusion is a bit limited in scope. There are a great many more possibilities for how this plays out.

Hey then, I"m willing to listen to any of those other possiblities Mich. I know that is this idea of American Exceptionalism that would have US hegemony will win out and our way will become the worlds way. That of course would be a very hard road to drive. Likewise the old notion of Manifest Destiny seems to have rotted on the vine as the hope that the good principles that were espoused in our constitution would also thrive and spread around the world. I find that one lacking now as well.

When we look at various economic systems we basically have capitalism and whatever else that might have challenged it in the past. It's capitalism that has served as the economic engine that has brought the West to dominance, yet at it's core is it not those who have been the most successful at this system, the Rockies and the Vanderbuilts and the rest of those elites that are the ones that are pressing these globalist ideas that so many are fearful of?

What do you see as the most likely of those ''many possibilities'' that you mention?

a reply to: Annee

Yeah, the problem as I see it is that it almost seems that any attempts we humans make to organize ourselves ends up being turned over to authoritarians.

I said I would post a few more quotes to chew on...

“I believe that, owning to men's folly, a world-government will only be established by force, and will therefore be at first cruel and despotic. But I believe that it is necessary for the preservation of a scientific civilization, and that, if once realized, it will gradually give rise to the other conditions of a tolerable existence.” ― Bertrand Russell

“This is free-market fanaticism, the fanaticism of indifference to its own values and, for that very reason, total intolerance towards those who differ by any passion whatsoever. The New World Order implies the extermination of everything different to integrate it into an indifferent world order. Is there still room between these two fanaticisms for a non-believer to exercise his liberty?” ― Jean Baudrillard, Fragments

“And that (...) is the secret of happiness and virtue —liking what you’ve got to do. All conditioning aims at that: making people like their unescapable social destiny.” ― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

The truth of the matter is that you do have those standby provisions, and the statutory emergency plans are there whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism, apprehend, invoke the military, and arrest Americans and hold them in detention camps." - U.S. Representative Henry Gonzalez, August 29, 1994

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." - Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets.

"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas." - Brock Adams, Director UN Health Organization

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an "extraterrestrial" invasion], whether real or *promulgated* [emphasis mine], that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government." - Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

Sounds good no? Are we really ready to sign up for this? I'm not.

Sometime in the near future... [read in news caster voice]

"Welcome back to Your News Tonight, I'm Brian Greenberg. And now, our top story... Global leaders from nations around the world have just left the Emergency Covid Summit in Cologne, Germany, a meeting of all of the most influential nation's leaders in an attempt to come to an accord in dealing with the unprecedented global pandemic which has killed millions worldwide. Cheryl Feinstein in reporting live onsite. Cheryl, what is the latest information?"

"Thank you, Brian and we at Your News Tonight are bringing you this exclusive, breaking news. Leaders have met for the last week here in Cologne with representatives from the United States, Germany, England, Italy, France and 42 other major nations. It is noted that Russia and China have failed to send dignitaries and despite their absence, the week-long engagement has produced it's first piece of legislation. Leaders are calling it The Accord Pact. The full details of the Accord Pact are as of yet unknown, but what we can tell you are that early reports from those inside the meetings are suggesting that an entirely new form of global governance has been formed in order to lead us to safety and out of the Covid pandemic."

"Cheryl, this is Brian. I'm sure many of our viewers tonight are alarmed to hear of this. What more can you tell us?"

"Brian, I fully understand and our viewers tonight should also know that there has been an expiration date set on The Accord Pact. We do not expect this new Global Government to exceed it's power."

Sometime in the not too far future... [Same voice, just darker]

"Welcome back to Your News Tonight, I'm Brian Greenberg. And now, our top story... The global economy continues to struggle as nations around the world have diverted significant portions of their countries budgets to the Accord. With no end in sight to the Covid pandemic and recent studies showing a seemingly ever-mutating form of the virus, we may be fighting a losing battle. However, top nations across the planet have decided to double-down on the Accord Pact, renewing it's existence this week. Some leaders are even calling for the dissolution of nations altogether in order to fully divert and prioritize funds to fight the ongoing pandemic. Cheryl Greenberg has more... Cheryl?"

"Hello Brian, I'm reporting tonight in Charleston, South Carolina, where separatists have just surrendered after their month-long standoff in the State Capital building. The separatists were calling for an end to the mandatory stay-at-home global orders, claiming that the Accord Pact does not supersede the United States Constitution. Working in conjunction with the local FBI, Accord Police have seized what many believe to be the final remnants of an outdated, racist philosophy. They are expected to be in Accord Court by early next week. We'll keep you updated on the latest, Brian. This is Cheryl Greenberg reporting from Charleston."

"Thank you, Cheryl. And now on to our panel of Accord Representatives..."

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Michielli

The idea you put forth that somehow the next and only obvious step in human evolution, Globalism, is a foregone conclusion is a bit limited in scope. There are a great many more possibilities for how this plays out.

Hey then, I"m willing to listen to any of those other possiblities Mich. I know that is this idea of American Exceptionalism that would have US hegemony will win out and our way will become the worlds way. That of course would be a very hard road to drive. Likewise the old notion of Manifest Destiny seems to have rotted on the vine as the hope that the good principles that were espoused in our constitution would also thrive and spread around the world. I find that one lacking now as well.

When we look at various economic systems we basically have capitalism and whatever else that might have challenged it in the past. It's capitalism that has served as the economic engine that has brought the West to dominance, yet at it's core is it not those who have been the most successful at this system, the Rockies and the Vanderbuilts and the rest of those elites that are the ones that are pressing these globalist ideas that so many are fearful of?

What do you see as the most likely of those ''many possibilities'' that you mention?

Well that's a bit of a loaded question... I am not in the throws of egomania such that I would pretend to line you out on how to organize the world. In fact, those types are the ones I am trying to point at. But, maybe we can use the device of looking at what doesn't work. We could write a set of encyclopedias on this exploration but I will give a few ideas a try...

Do we have a successful happy model of socialism or communism? Maybe Sweden but we're only talking about organizing 10 million people there...it kind of works well for them. It would seem by all of the experiments in this that we have seen so far that when you eliminate competition you drive down morale and quality of life goes down. Strangely give everyone the same and provide a basic level of survival and there's no incentive. No one care anymore and quality goes down and substance abuse goes up. Pretty well known scenario.

So the saying goes power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely? What do we think the consolidation of world power will do?

Let's look at something we can actually grock because we are talking about something that has NEVER yet happened...right?

Let's take our food supply. I am of the opinion that when we had metropolitan areas that were supported local regions of agriculture we were better off. Once consolidation took over i.e. Monsanto what do we see? corruption, control, less choice, etc. (GMO corn for example...can't get any good ole natural corn in the world anymore) I would love to support local farmer's markets but $9 for a head of cauliflower I can't sustain.

Let's take our retail transformation. Consolidation of retail options first by Walmart who really put a lot of people out of business and then of course Amazon who had enough money to just operate at a complete loss until they put a great deal of brick and mortar smaller companies out of business. It's great though...super convenient, cheapest prices...can't resist the crack. Is it really, I mean really better for us? It's great for Jeff Bezos. I personally used to like to go to blockbuster video with my daughter and look through the movies, talk to the people at the counter, pick out some candy and popcorn...it was a wholistic experience that involved interacting with people. Now I can eat 10 times more snacks cheaper from Costco and dial up everything ever put on video right from my couch. Do I feel like my experience is better? Actually no...call me a ludite but I preferred the blockbuster experience. Maybe there is a meet in the middle solution but given greed I think not.

I guess I could keep giving you examples of this but it's really kind of the same for me in the result.

It seems like it always ends in something less personal, less real, less interactive. I get that once the world gets used to robots building cars and the factory workers put out of work have to reeducate to higher level jobs....once again we're at the miserable couple generation and then we're good.....right? No I think that particular trend can't really be avoided given the exponential acceleration of technology.

What I am getting at is what do we have when we mix everything together, strip away individuality of culture and tradition, stories of different peoples, different ways of thinking, etc.? Blah. We have Blah. and more Blah. I say remove the friction of our differences and liberty to pursue different paths replaced by governance by elite intellectuals who regard the masses as cattle will destroy the will to live. It already has where these idea have been tried.

What you seem to be saying is "yeah but it's a great idea or at least an inevitable one if we can just get the right people to implement it correctly..." Doesn't that speak to the same difficulties we face now at even the municipal level.

What would you say Globalism solves beside making it easier for a smaller group of more elite people to decide what you can and cannot do, experience, say, worship, eat, etc. ad nauseum? I say it opens the door for more corruption, less liberty, less variety. When you're told you are not good enough to reproduce and have a family would you bow your head and accept it? When you're told science is god (I love science but it does nothing to speak to my spirit when in need) and it is illegal to worship false religions what do you do? The over whelming evidence is that people hide and continue their traditions in secret like people in Chine hid their western classical instruments because they were burning them in the streets.

What would you say the benefits of globalization be? The number one I see is easier control....and that won't be a benefit in the hands of the people will it? Why do global solutions necessarily result in the loss of sovereignty?

I personally do not think globalism can be made to work. Just to implement it you will have to do it by force and many will die in the process. Though humans share most of the same needs they do not share the same temperament, character, intelligence, experience, etc...all those things that give us identity. It's the friction where the rubber meets the road that makes the car go.

I say given the current state of things in the world that each sovereign nation on earth needs some spring cleaning. Without a moral and spiritual evolution going global won't solve anything. I think the human spirit is slowly dying....or being beaten to death rather...things are too fast...there's no time to ponder anymore. The entire world is on knee jerk alert. Corruption has been left to spread and fester like a mold infestation because we're all too busy buying stuff on Amazon and binge watching propaganda to think about being a better person moment to moment.

I think what will happen is you will see an uprising of people who won't stand for it anymore....at the local level and beyond. I think it has to do with real personal responsibility instead of the fake ass virtue signalling plastic reflection you see every where you look nowadays. The acceptance of a perpetual state of lies is upon us.

a reply to: Michielli

HI, I'm back

Reading though your splendid reply I think I may have grasped at least a broad swath of your concerns over globalization. Those concerns seem to not be just ''knee jerk'' we want to save Muricanism cuz we likes it USA USA USA..
That aside I find little in your writing to disagree with, other than nit picking you lay it out clearly and simply.

I don't promote globalization for the very reasons you point out.What I do do is recognize that it is happening. And not happening because of these Rockies and VanderBees and the rest but rather because the entire course of human history seems to be headed in that direction. In that direction along with eons of training humans first in small pockets then in larger pockets to accept some dildo as our Big Man just because he could fight better or wore a crown passed down by his father. And that along with the world wide notions that some cat from '' back then'' was Gods emissary who laid it down as it should be for those of us who come along thousands of years later. But back to your reply.

You get to the meat of an answer to my ''loaded question'' when you say

I say given the current state of things in the world that each sovereign nation on earth needs some spring cleaning. Without a moral and spiritual evolution going global won't solve anything. I think the human spirit is slowly dying....or being beaten to death rather...things are too fast..

Yes, I see this as well. Each sovereign nation needs some spring cleaning. However just how that might come about is anyones guess I suppose. But then you cut to the chase. Without a moral and spiritual evolution, going global won't solve anything. And there we have it. How can we come to this cleansing as you say it, without another ''cat'' coming along and laying it down for us, all of which is more than likely to end up just as all the others before it have.

Myself, I find our world religions to be wanting. I find from my experiences in and later observations of Christianity no solution at all for a moral or spiritual clean up. Indeed I find that to a very large extent it is like our globalization concerns trending towards reliance upon those in charge. I could diatribe all day long on that from the Holy Roman Empire to any of these mega churches today so I won't.

Do I recognize the traps that globalization sets? Yes indeed, yet I also recognize that it is well underway and has been for most of our existence, only now it is becoming evident to many of us. I recognize that it is more than just these rich dudes with power who are pushing for it. That they are the only ones who have any plans to orchestrate it. For the most part, all the rest of us can manage is no no no no no no and hell no as if it is something that we can do to stop from happening. We can't, cuz it already is. From what I can see the only solution I can fathom is to recognize this and work from there.

You suggest that the human spirit is dying, maybe. Well maybe yes though maybe no. Maybe it is just transforming in ways then neither you or I can grasp at the moment. Maybe, I dunno. Maybe all that is really left for us is lamentations.

Here is a good lamentation for you. The Alan Parson's Project, ''Children of the Moon''



Pay no attention to the writing on the wall
The words seem empty, 'cause there's nothing there at all
We let the wise men beat the drums too soon
We were just children of the moon
No one to turn to
Nowhere to run to even if we could
Too late to save us, but try to understand
The seas were empty, there was hunger in the land
We let the blind man lead the way too long
Easy to see where we went wrong
Nothing to live for
Nothing to die for
We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Children, children of the moon
Watch the world go by
Children, children of the moon
Are hiding from the sun and the sky
Children, children of the moon
Watch it all go by
Children, children of the moon
Are blinded by the light in their eyes
No one to turn to
Nowhere to run to even if we could
Follow the pilgrim to the temple of the dawn
The altar's empty and the sacrifice is gone
We let the madmen write the golden rules
We were no more than mortal fools
Nothing to live for
Nothing to die for
We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Children, children of the moon
Watch the world go by
Children, children of the moon
Hiding from the sky

a reply to: Michielli

The NWO is corporate globalism. Anyone that has stocks is a NWO Globalist.
Trump made sure to keep the industry flush with free money.

The only way Biden could be anti NWO is to stop the handouts to wall street and we know that will not happen.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Michielli

HI, I'm back

Reading though your splendid reply I think I may have grasped at least a broad swath of your concerns over globalization. Those concerns seem to not be just ''knee jerk'' we want to save Muricanism cuz we likes it USA USA USA..
That aside I find little in your writing to disagree with, other than nit picking you lay it out clearly and simply.

I don't promote globalization for the very reasons you point out.What I do do is recognize that it is happening. And not happening because of these Rockies and VanderBees and the rest but rather because the entire course of human history seems to be headed in that direction. In that direction along with eons of training humans first in small pockets then in larger pockets to accept some dildo as our Big Man just because he could fight better or wore a crown passed down by his father. And that along with the world wide notions that some cat from '' back then'' was Gods emissary who laid it down as it should be for those of us who come along thousands of years later. But back to your reply.

You get to the meat of an answer to my ''loaded question'' when you say

I say given the current state of things in the world that each sovereign nation on earth needs some spring cleaning. Without a moral and spiritual evolution going global won't solve anything. I think the human spirit is slowly dying....or being beaten to death rather...things are too fast..

Yes, I see this as well. Each sovereign nation needs some spring cleaning. However just how that might come about is anyones guess I suppose. But then you cut to the chase. Without a moral and spiritual evolution, going global won't solve anything. And there we have it. How can we come to this cleansing as you say it, without another ''cat'' coming along and laying it down for us, all of which is more than likely to end up just as all the others before it have.

Myself, I find our world religions to be wanting. I find from my experiences in and later observations of Christianity no solution at all for a moral or spiritual clean up. Indeed I find that to a very large extent it is like our globalization concerns trending towards reliance upon those in charge. I could diatribe all day long on that from the Holy Roman Empire to any of these mega churches today so I won't.

Do I recognize the traps that globalization sets? Yes indeed, yet I also recognize that it is well underway and has been for most of our existence, only now it is becoming evident to many of us. I recognize that it is more than just these rich dudes with power who are pushing for it. That they are the only ones who have any plans to orchestrate it. For the most part, all the rest of us can manage is no no no no no no and hell no as if it is something that we can do to stop from happening. We can't, cuz it already is. From what I can see the only solution I can fathom is to recognize this and work from there.

You suggest that the human spirit is dying, maybe. Well maybe yes though maybe no. Maybe it is just transforming in ways then neither you or I can grasp at the moment. Maybe, I dunno. Maybe all that is really left for us is lamentations.

Here is a good lamentation for you. The Alan Parson's Project, ''Children of the Moon''

Pay no attention to the writing on the wall
The words seem empty, 'cause there's nothing there at all
We let the wise men beat the drums too soon
We were just children of the moon
No one to turn to
Nowhere to run to even if we could
Too late to save us, but try to understand
The seas were empty, there was hunger in the land
We let the blind man lead the way too long
Easy to see where we went wrong
Nothing to live for
Nothing to die for
We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Children, children of the moon
Watch the world go by
Children, children of the moon
Are hiding from the sun and the sky
Children, children of the moon
Watch it all go by
Children, children of the moon
Are blinded by the light in their eyes
No one to turn to
Nowhere to run to even if we could
Follow the pilgrim to the temple of the dawn
The altar's empty and the sacrifice is gone
We let the madmen write the golden rules
We were no more than mortal fools
Nothing to live for
Nothing to die for
We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Lost in the middle of a hopeless world
Children, children of the moon
Watch the world go by
Children, children of the moon
Hiding from the sky

Yeah I apologize for the ramshackle way I might come across in my organization. I have a lot on my plate and family responsibilities come long before posts on a conspiracy website. I try to engage and write and respond as best as I can whilst caring for small children and keeping my home in order. I am well educated, well traveled, lived in a few different countries, my wife is a dual national and my son is a triple national. I have degrees in business and fine arts and aside from a lifetime of work as a professional musician, recording artist, and producer I spent 12 years build 7 different technology start-ups. I was raised Christian but eventually took initiation from an Indian meditation master. Studied comparative religion, mysticism, and occultism for most of my life.

I am not trying to toot my horn at all, just giving you enough information to show you i didn't grow up in a box. I am a very diverse and experienced person who tries to always keep my mind open. I like discussing contentious subject with people like you because you seem very reasonable. Thank you for the respectful conversation, I agree with much of what you have to say.

I think organized religion is a sham and yet the moral construct it provided seems to me to better serve people than the lack thereof. I don't have a public answer for a solution to what I suggested is the problem. I do have a great deal of private opinions on this but I don't particularly want to share them in public. There would be a great deal of misunderstanding about anything I would say and it would take something the size and strangeness of the Urantia book to explain. That's a comical reference not an endorsement.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Just for a taste of what I think.

OPINION:

One of the best things we could do as a planet is to become a vegan based species. Not only does this lighten you spiritually to no longer participate in the merciless industrial murder of 100's of millions of animals each year, it also removes a significant contributor to the global warming climate crisis and horrific localized pollution problems like the incredible lakes of pig snip in the Carolinas.

The benefits of this kind of change can be supported by as much factual evidence as you could want on all fronts.

But meat eaters won't see it. Why? For no other demonstrable reason than "I like bacon. Bacon tastes good."

I grew up hunting. Not that pussy hunting you see where billybob dresses up in tactical gear and waits in a deer stand 50 feet from a feeder the deer get used to all year long and BAM gots me an 8 pointer!

I'm talking about bow hunting and tracking up close and personal. Things that take skill and patience. I ran the gamut on the outdoorsman thing the proper way.

I've been a vegetarian for 29 years. I'm doing my part.

So based on the replies you will maybe see here...my ideas will be unpopular no matter how well supported.

originally posted by: MarkOfTheV
a reply to: Michielli

Well why didn't you say so?!

As much as I wish the Kennedy quote was known to be true, it's known to be a modern falsification of the internet.

originally posted by: dogstar23

originally posted by: MarkOfTheV
a reply to: Michielli

Well why didn't you say so?!

As much as I wish the Kennedy quote was known to be true, it's known to be a modern falsification of the internet.

Here's his speech on secret societies and monolithic conspiracy

JFK Speech on Secret Societies and Conspiracy

a reply to: Michielli

information to show you i didn't grow up in a box.

Mark that goal from your list accomplished. You do seem enigmatic to me Mich. If you are to be believed, and this is always a wise caution on the internet, you sound as if you might have been a flaming liberal yet from some of your posting I find that you come down on the Biden/Trump divide on Trump's side. This is of interest to me as in principle I try to not stereotype people into those boxes yet from so much of the vitriolic support for him I find in these forums, it's an easy trap to slip into.

I was a vegetarian for only six years for much of the reasons you put forth earlier. I met my wive twenty five years ago and she was not and at the same time a great cook. So after a year of being with her, I flipped back to eating meat. Didn't kill me while the goal of lightening the load on the planet of meat eating seemed to have been lost.

I joined ATS in 2011 primarily to swim with others who were interested in that happening. I held no specific opinions or beliefs on it so much as to experience the interchanges and deeper thoughts from others who might be wondering about alternate visions of human destiny. Then through lethargy I have just hung around for not having found any other web sites that interested me.

Then Trump, and that is where this site is now for the most part.

When I was young, I had numerous spiritual and or psychic experiences that were I to believe that they really happened separated me from all my contemporaries . Along with those were a few UFO sightings that at the time also let me single myself out as someone more interested in occult and other worldly thought processes than those around me.

I trained as a classical clarinetist through high school and two years of college. I could have joined the officer corp by being in a military band but came up 4f in my physical. That was in 67. I also played sax in a couple of dance bands at that time and really loved playing the tuba for pep band on sporting events.

I decided to take my music and use it as a secondary skill when I found I had a knack for youth work. Working with children and teens younger than myself where those musical skills, I was also a strong singer, were very useful. I took that career change and enrolled in the YMCA college in Chicago to become a YMCA organizer.

In the middle of my first year there, my third year of college overall, a friend took me aside and apologized. I asked why and he told me that he was having his tuition paid as part of a CIA program that utilized college students to amass a watch list of other students. He had given them my name. Soon after that I was expelled on several trumped up charges and upon coming back home found that I had been black listed from working with any of the Ys in my area.

With out fleshing it all out for you, which would take a book as thick as the Urantia Book, you can still find dust on my copy somewhere on my shelves, I ended up an extreme spiritual searcher. So there I was sitting on the curb in front of Codys Book Store on Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley, meditating before leaving for the mountains the next day to not emerge until I had had my message from God. A pretty voice , the voice of an angel spoke to me. It was Leslie, inviting me to dinner with some of her friends to listen to a presentation of a new spiritual philosophy from the Far East. I was twenty yet still such a child.

Yep. the Moonies. Tossed into limbo from that college expulsion after having set aside a promising musical career, I figured this might be God's message to me so I joined them, knowing it might only be a cult but with the hope that it could be indeed where God wanted to utilize my pretty wide skill set. Four year later I managed my mental escape. That experience with a cult has colored my life since and that was fifty years ago. I needed to know how that happened to me and began studying cults and psychology. I spent years reading from a wide variety of schools of thought.

Cut to 2016 and I saw a cult leader rise from his golden bathroom and mesmerize millions, enough to let him win out over a stick-up-her-butt social programmer.

Now, I mostly philosophize . There are few if any around me that have concocted their own individual spiritual path, if that is even possible, to share with. That question' ''what is REALLY happening to us'' is still the focal point of my thought processes. Other than of course how to keep my family life happy. Than now is mostly my wife and I living on the bank of a river in Oregon, retired now for almost twenty years.

When I was young, I looked for a world of exciting developments, and from all appearances, that is exactly where we find ourselves now. So, if you are planning on driving out of this simulation, I will be interested in what the heck you mean by that.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Hey there, thank you for the wonderful reply! I really appreciate the fact that you think about adding depth and meaning to your posts.



I want to engage with you on this subject but I have a full day of prepping the yard and house for getting Christmas decorations up next week. The Christmas season in it's most stereotypical splendor is my favorite time of year. I do a Clarke Griswald display every year and it takes 2 weeks for me to get all the lights and decorations done.

Also Saturday night is Game night for me and my son so we hole up and play co-op video games together and make frozen pizza bolstered with junk food and mayhem. Even the dog gets in on it.

So you may not see much of me and I don't know that I will have time to reply to your reply in a focused and meaningful way...but I do care and I am interested so...

Maybe we could move this particular discussion to a Philosophy thread and avoid the Fraud Denier in a Box virus that seems to hijacking everything...I keep reminding people that this IS a conspiracy website and it seems to me this might be a pretty good conspiracy in the end...

I'll get a new thread up and hit you back with it...cheers and thanks again for your time and energy.

a reply to: Michielli

Meanwhile, if you are interested.

My first UFO experience
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and my third

www.abovetopsecret.com...