Sars-CoV-2 (Covid 19) Transmission study on group of US Marines - Anyone Seen This?

New England Journal of Medicine Sars-CoV-2 Transmission Study

The above study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, appears to show that all the protocols actually make the infection rate go up....looks like almost double.

This was a group of more than 1500 US Marines under strict supervision and strict protocols. Now I haven't known many United States Marines to be lax in their ability to follow instructions or guidelines so I would bet this study was done right.

Am I missing something?

What say ye?

a reply to: Michielli

What say ye?

I don't and haven't ever given a # about infection rates in isolation. Infection rates only matter in correlation with death rates. If there's a high infection rate and a high death rate, that's some lockdown holy # we're doomed #, if there's a low infection rate and a high death rate, that's some, uh oh, better be careful and take some measures to avoid the death disease.

A high infection rate, low death rate....

That's the common cold....

originally posted by: dug88
a reply to: Michielli

What say ye?

I don't and haven't ever given a # about infection rates in isolation. Infection rates only matter in correlation to death rates. If there's a high infection rate and a high death rate, that's some lockdown holy # we're doomed #, if there's a low infection rate and a high death rate, that's some, uh oh, better be careful and take some measures to avoid the death diseas.

A high infection rate, low death rate....

I feel you on all that. I just thought it was curious that all of the protocols seem to be based on infection rate and yet we have access to this study which contradicts. I was really just pointing that out because I hadn't yet seen this kind of empirical evidence that everything they are telling us is malarkey.

I'm too tired to read and make sense of the report. It doesn't really appear to say anything other than isolation did not really inhibit the spread of the virus, somehow it kept getting spread for some reason. This matches what they have found in the public setting, people who lock themselves in their houses are still getting the virus from somewhere. Our attitude is actually important in fighting disease, our immune system gets suppressed if we are isolated from others for some reason, it is our mental state that keeps us from getting sick, if we feel locked up, we get sick easier. This has been known for decades, and I am sure those who want to get prestige or make profit off of this virus are aware of this. Fear stimulates an improper immune response too, just like feeling depressed because you cannot go out and see friends and relatives.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yes mind over matter, not to be mistaken with telekinesis or other nonsense. It’s a virus that can survive on surfaces for a long time and can be spread throu the air. (Aerosol transmission)

A cloth mask banana etc. is not going to stop something so small it’s on the atomic scale and smaller than an atom. Ahem


Meh masks are the new seat belts.

originally posted by: Bicent
a reply to: rickymouse

Yes mind over matter, not to be mistaken with telekinesis or other nonsense. It’s a virus that can survive on surfaces for a long time and can be spread throu the air. (Aerosol transmission)

A cloth mask banana etc. is not going to stop something so small it’s on the atomic scale and smaller than an atom. Ahem


Meh masks are the new seat belts.

Yeah except the mask doesn't keep me from going through the windshield when some a-hole hits me head on at 60MPH.

I thought it was weird that we have an official study done on Marines and it's no where to be found. Just the drone of all these jerks telling us to obey or now they're gonna raid myt thanksgiving dinner. Seriously...take a bit....mask back on....chew...chew...swallow...mask off....take a bite...

I'd rather play Russian effing Roullette.

a reply to: Michielli

Yeah, that's why every lockdown measure and reasoning behind all this is so utterly #ing ridiculous. Everything this whole time has been based on infection rates, meanwhile your 97% chance of surviving has been glossed over and if you dare mention this, get ready for the # storm.

I don't give the slightest flying # how likely I am to get a disease that I have a very good chance of not experiencing symptoms from.

I mean # for all I know i've had covid. I was pretty sick back last November and had some weird cold flu thing in like June or something.

Like who in their right mind worries about catching something they have a low chance of even experiencing symptoms from?

Symptoms...you know, the part of a disease that actually kills you and makes you feel like #...the part of a disease that makes it a dis-ease. As in causes a lack of ease.

Yeah ever stop to ponder that little bit of English trivia before?

Waiting for ketsuko opinion on this. Always insightful.

a reply to: Michielli

From the abstract:

"Epidemiologic analysis supported multiple local transmission events, including transmission between roommates and among recruits within the same platoon."

and...

"U.S. Department of Defense installations have implemented recommended public health interventions. However, confined living spaces, close contact among persons during training regimens and other activities, shared dining facilities, and mixing of persons from across the United States place military populations at risk..."

That is saying that there were transmission events commensurate with the participants being close-quartered and high contact.

The study showed the primary routes of transmission were between participants who slept in the same room (and were not wearing masks while sleeping or eating) or within the same platoon (which suggests contact transmission).

All that said, the infection rate was low and some sort of transmission among close quartered people is to be expected. Similar results have been observed in other quarantine facilities and hospitals.

originally posted by: dug88
a reply to: Michielli

Yeah, that's why every lockdown measure and reasoning behind all this is so utterly #ing ridiculous.

Yeah ever stop to ponder that little bit of English trivia before?

Actually, it proves that they are effective, it showed that the subjects contracted Covid through social and communal activities, and that they they were more likely to transmit it through prolonged close contact.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

No it really doesn't.

The higher rates of transmission even between the group taking all the measures? It's within margin of error. There was no observable difference in the two groups.

However, the idea that taking the measures (masking/distancing) protects like we're told it does is on the table. If there's no difference, then they really aren't all that effective.

So we're back to locking down. That's not an option either.

Reality is that we're looking at an illness with a 99%+ survivable rate for anyone 65 and under approaching 100% for those under 17. Locking down entire areas and destroying economies is no answer for that. Look at the age -- 65. That means most of us should be going on as normal. The ones we should be taking special care with are the ones over 65 who are in almost every case not active in the economy.

The Danish Mask Study

This study also showed that there was no real difference between wearing masks and not.

6000 people participated in the study. 3030 were randomly assigned to the mask group and 2994 to the control arm. Out of the entire group 4862 completed the study period. These were adults who spent more than 3 hours a day outside their homes and didn’t wear masks at an occupation. Both the mask wearing arm and the non-mask wearing arm were told to follow social distancing measures. The mask-wearing group was encouraged to wear a mask outside their home and were given 50 surgical masks for this purpose. So better masks than cloth ones. The primary outcome was number of infections after one-month. 42 people got infected in the mask wearing group and 53 in the control group. Because more dropouts occurred in the mask group, there was no statistical difference in infection rate. One interesting little nugget in the characteristics of the groups is that more people in the control arm had what might be considered higher-risk occupations than in the mask wearing arm. Yet still no difference in infection rate.

You can say more without got infected, but it was within the margin of error -- no appreciable difference.

People are criticizing the military study saying they infected each other at night?

It appeared there was very low in-home transmission that caused the infection in either arm of the study, so most transmission was occurring in the community. Another interesting finding was no difference in infection with other respiratory viruses.

So there you are -- the participants here were not passing it around at home.

This was a well-designed study. If masks made a difference in the community, it would have been seen in this large a group. And that distinction between protecting the wearer versus others makes no logical sense. Think about it. If wearing a mask doesn’t do a better job of keeping you from getting infected, i.e. keeping the virus from coming in, why would it do a better job of keeping it from going out? In fact, you might expect the opposite, there is less pressure in the inhale than the exhale.

So I suppose you can draw your own conclusions from this, but I know there have been plenty of charts published showing the implementation of mask orders made little different in the course of the disease in communities.

originally posted by: Michielli
New England Journal of Medicine Sars-CoV-2 Transmission Study

The above study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, appears to show that all the protocols actually make the infection rate go up....looks like almost double.

This was a group of more than 1500 US Marines under strict supervision and strict protocols. Now I haven't known many United States Marines to be lax in their ability to follow instructions or guidelines so I would bet this study was done right.

Am I missing something?

What say ye?

Look into the several navy ships (tight quarters) who had 1/2 the ships infected.

The officer who reported it. Was fired. By Trump.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Yeah...you're the missing the point, who cares how many people get a disease that's most likely to leave you feeling a bit meh for a week or two?

Humanity must be really weak if they're that scared of feeling under the weather.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Were those ships operating under the same protocols as the study referenced? I recall the incident you mentioned. It was early on in the pandemic too.

a reply to: ketsuko

Don't think so, dunno. Can just imagine being crammed with multitudes of other sick...

When they needed help...nope. Shhhhhhhhh...Lets not talk about the "The Sardine Virus"...those sone 5-600 all sick.

"Help!" So let's fire the captain. Hey, K? Who's that sound like!?"

a reply to: mysterioustranger

I don't remember them being denied help. They were brought to harbor if I recall correctly.

The issue was whether or not the captain went public afterward to complain about it for political reasons. Maybe yes; maybe no.

a reply to: ketsuko

Still? You think there's gotta be other close-quarter ships infected (then-now?)...we aren't hearing about as well

Of course getting treatment. But, how about nipping it before it got to a shipload?

This was back in the beginning...tho, current precautions taken. Look what it took

a reply to: mysterioustranger

It was also early on when everything was a panic. Most of the crewmen got mild cases to asymptomatic cases has pretty much come to be the norm from this.

So now that we know things numbers-wise, are the ships really that "plague" free or are they just continuing on around it since most of the crewmen will recover just fine with little need for intensive support?

Let's be plain - look at the evidence in the behavior of our "betters" who tell us to stay at home hiding under our beds without faces covered. They don't seem to think it's any big thing either when they want to party it up.

a reply to: ketsuko

K? Today. Again. In port. Hawaii. 300 sailors.

Today's news. Didn't know when we spoke about it happening earlier today.

Can you post link plz? PLZ!? Thanks