The theory that COVID-19 originated in China takes a body blow.

A recent study of blood samples taken from as early as September 2019 have shown the presence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies.

This indicates that the virus was probably circulating in Europe well before it was identified and became pandemic in China.

From the abstract of the publication:

There are no robust data on the real onset of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection and spread in the prepandemic period worldwide. We investigated the presence of SARS-CoV-2 receptor-binding domain (RBD)–specific antibodies in blood samples of 959 asymptomatic individuals enrolled in a prospective lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 to track the date of onset, frequency, and temporal and geographic variations across the Italian regions. SARS-CoV-2 RBD-specific antibodies were detected in 111 of 959 (11.6%) individuals, starting from September 2019 (14%), with a cluster of positive cases (>30%) in the second week of February 2020 and the highest number (53.2%) in Lombardy. This study shows an unexpected very early circulation of SARS-CoV-2 among asymptomatic individuals in Italy several months before the first patient was identified, and clarifies the onset and spread of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. Finding SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in asymptomatic people before the COVID-19 outbreak in Italy may reshape the history of pandemic.

The article itself:

Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the prepandemic period in Italy

As these weren't PCR detections but were antibody tests, the accuracy of this article can be called into question, however, combined with other clinical details from Northern France, I would say this is another piece of compelling evidence that the virus probably did not originate in China.

a reply to: chr0naut

AKA Scamdemic

originally posted by: KKLOCO
a reply to: chr0naut

AKA Scamdemic

No, the deaths and hospitalizations would have probably been thought of as just being pneumonia at the time.

There's nothing 'scammy' about the existence of the virus, nor of its effects.

I wouldn't be too surprised by this.

I can't remember the exact timing but it looks years for scientists to confirm the origin of the first SARS outbreak.

There will come a point in a few years where they come out and say where it originated.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: KKLOCO
a reply to: chr0naut

AKA Scamdemic

No, the deaths and hospitalizations would have probably been thought of as just being pneumonia at the time.

There's nothing 'scammy' about the existence of the virus, nor of its effects.

'
just the reaction. that part is super 'scammy'. Unless you are into killing small business in favor of big box stores.

a reply to: chr0naut

That doesn't mean it didn't originate in China. It doesn't really matter where it came from unless it was an intentional release.

I've said for quite some time, and plenty of others agree, that it was being spread long before it was recognized as an outbreak.

The high number of asymptomatic cases we're seeing revealed supports the idea that it was circulating for quite some time. This article is additional proof supporting my hypothesis.

A new "tongue twitter": Who knew the Wu flu originated in the EU.

originally posted by: chr0naut
however, combined with other clinical details from Northern France, I would say this is another piece of compelling evidence that the virus probably did not originate in China.

Yes,

A least one case from France was revisited, and found to be the SARS-CoV-2, I forget what the original diagnosis was.

The man lived in France, but was from Libya* however he had not been out of France for some time. Then there is the infamous experiment with the Horseshoe bats that did take place in Wuhan circa 2015/16 and Bat Lady was part of it.

Edit,

*Algeria

www.bloomberg.com...

Red Herring number 27 😎

a reply to: chr0naut

Well we already have heard in march 2019, Spain, they found covid19 in a sewage sample. so either the test is bogus or the news is bogus, or both.

a reply to: drewlander

Or, the test was actually accurate, and the sewage sample did contain traces of the virus (if detected via PCR) or of the antibodies.

As they say on the internet, cOoL sToRy BrAh.

CCP is still total #.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: chr0naut
however, combined with other clinical details from Northern France, I would say this is another piece of compelling evidence that the virus probably did not originate in China.

Yes,

A least one case from France was revisited, and found to be the SARS-CoV-2, I forget what the original diagnosis was.

The man lived in France, but was from Libya* however he had not been out of France for some time. Then there is the infamous experiment with the Horseshoe bats that did take place in Wuhan circa 2015/16 and Bat Lady was part of it.

Edit,

*Algeria

www.bloomberg.com...

Yes,

That is the sort of thing that is becoming apparent. Although, I think that while the man in the article was born in Algeria, there is no indication that he had just come from Sub-Saharan Africa immediately prior to presenting at the clinic in Paris.

a reply to: chr0naut
What does this prove????

There's a large Chinese population in Italy.
I would expect a lot of travel of the Chinese back and forth to their motherland.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: KKLOCO
a reply to: chr0naut

AKA Scamdemic

No, the deaths and hospitalizations would have probably been thought of as just being pneumonia at the time.

There's nothing 'scammy' about the existence of the virus, nor of its effects.

'
just the reaction. that part is super 'scammy'. Unless you are into killing small business in favor of big box stores.

I think that you are only considering the situation USA.

COVID-19 is a world-wide problem and one that other countries are handling without all the (proposed) business failures.

I'm not sure how it would affect small businesses differently than it would large businesses? Perhaps large chain stores can afford to employ more fodder if frontline staff pass away?

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: chr0naut
What does this prove????

There's a large Chinese population in Italy.
I would expect a lot of travel of the Chinese back and forth to their motherland.

It doesn't prove anything. It is part of the scientific evidence that we can use to try and identify human 'case zero' and hopefully how the species crossing occurred. If we have that sort of information, we can possibly eliminate the conditions required for such a transfer and prevent it in the future.

Horseshoe bats (the suspected source animal) are prevalent across Europe as well as China. It was once believed that the virus jumped from horseshoe bats - to pangolins - to humans, which would have identified the source of the species jump to humans as occurring in China, but recent studies have revealed that pangolins weren't the likely mediator, but civets were more likely. Again, civets are native to Europe as well as China.

However, the earliness of the indicators in Europe does identify that it may have come from there. Each bit of data does not 'prove anything' but it adds to our knowledge and may be helpful in the future.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: chr0naut
What does this prove????

There's a large Chinese population in Italy.
I would expect a lot of travel of the Chinese back and forth to their motherland.

Don't mean to pile on the op, but excuse the add to the above

Coronavirus: Chinese targeted as Italians panic

Some 300,000 Chinese nationals live in Italy and five million Chinese tourists visit every year, pouring much-needed money into the stagnant Italian economy.

So there is that..... ETA .. but you know the old saying ... All roads lead to Rome .....

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: chr0naut

That doesn't mean it didn't originate in China. It doesn't really matter where it came from unless it was an intentional release.

I've said for quite some time, and plenty of others agree, that it was being spread long before it was recognized as an outbreak.

The high number of asymptomatic cases we're seeing revealed supports the idea that it was circulating for quite some time. This article is additional proof supporting my hypothesis.

It matters where it came from and how it crossed the species barrier.

originally posted by: MetalThunder

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: chr0naut
What does this prove????

There's a large Chinese population in Italy.
I would expect a lot of travel of the Chinese back and forth to their motherland.

Don't mean to pile on the op, but excuse the add to the above

Coronavirus: Chinese targeted as Italians panic

Some 300,000 Chinese nationals live in Italy and five million Chinese tourists visit every year, pouring much-needed money into the stagnant Italian economy.

So there is that..... ETA .. but you know the old saying ... All roads lead to Rome .....

So, do you think that a response based upon ethnic stereotypes and ignorance, such as purported in this article, is valid?

And how does that negate anything in the OP?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: chr0naut
What does this prove????

There's a large Chinese population in Italy.
I would expect a lot of travel of the Chinese back and forth to their motherland.

Horseshoe bats (the suspected source animal) are prevalent across Europe as well as China. It was once believed that the virus jumped from horseshoe bats - to pangolins - to humans, which would have identified the source of the species jump to humans as occurring in China, but recent studies have revealed that pangolins weren't the likely mediator, but civets were more likely. Again, civets are native to Europe as well as China.

You seem anxious to clear things up for China. I notice there was no link about this.

Civets are not native to Europe. Even if there was widespread importation to Europe there isn't a wild population to spread it.