The Conspiracy Theory Conspiracy Theory

a reply to: Smokeygurl

Oh and as far as being saddened … there’s value in that as well if one cares to look for it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: schrodingers dog

Once upon a time, when gatekeepers controlled information flow, it was the burden of people with critical thinking skills and the will to investigate beyond the apparent surface for data and facts that would reveal the reality of the people behind said surface and their machinations.

Oh for the good old days! I think the "age of least confusion" was relatively early on in the 'age of internet for the common man.' It was before entrenched ideologues, knee-deep in their "golden agenda of Utopian bliss" realized that there was a damning truth they failed to account for in the master plan, namely: "You can't fool all of the people all of the time."

That was a time of people realizing, en masse, that the rest of the world wasn't full of stupid people - as we are often told, only half in jest. This new medium offered an opportunity to do what relatively civilized and cooperative are inclined to do. But, with the help of the inteligencia - the would-be architects of control were able to poison the well deeply enough to sow confusion again.

In my opinion, for whatever that can be worth, this strategy is failing them.

But I do not wish to impose upon this fine thread with distractions, since it may not have been your intent to follow this distinct line of reasoning.

What is interesting to observe, and as always by interesting I mean absurd and sad if one is invested in the system, is that as a result conspiracy theorists are now as or more mainstream than those who accept what is in plain sight at face value.

I see this too, a sort of solidification of the mindset, an entrenching of it - so to speak.

So many people out there have made it their default mechanism...

I beleive that mistrust you describe may be a conditioned response (thus available for abuse.) Maybe it's a knee-jerk reaction (partly emotional, I would thik) to shattering a naivette (perhaps we all share) about "who we're supposed to be able to trust," on the one hand and, "If we all know it's wrong, it should stop."

I suggest considering the possibility this is a manifestaion of human nature and not necessarily confined to the "conspiracy theory" community generally. It's effect is more obtrusive in that community, because ostensibly, to be effective a conpiracy theorist must resist the priviledge of "focusing on feelings" about the information in deference to a dispassionate approach. But maybe that's an aspect of being any kind of 'theorist.'

Nicely said by the way!

a reply to: schrodingers dog

" conspiracy theorists are now as or more mainstream than those who accept what is in plain sight at face value. So many people out there have made it their default mechanism. Getting people to that point where they are so fearful and so mistrustful of their reality that they almost never trust it when it conflicts with their personal preferences and beliefs, so much so that they’ll believe almost anything from those who manipulate them as long as it’s somewhat consistent with their own beliefs, is the ultimate conspiracy and the natural evolution of the dilution of information ... when they got you to believe in nothing but your own nonsense, so much so that many will readily fight and be willing harm others to preserve it, never occurring to you that what you're fighting for doesn't actually serve you, only serving those who are using you, or more accurately, those who you're willingly handing yourself over to in servitude."


Interesting . That is Almost the Perfect Definition of Modern Liberalism .

originally posted by: Ian McLean
a reply to: schrodingers dog

The fundamental conspiracy is the idea that there's one particular model of how the world works, that if understood, can sweep aside confusion and make everything clear and predictable. That by searching for that model, we eliminate ambiguity and decrease our ignorance.

It's a very powerful idea, and infinitely leveragable. But it's the exact opposite of how reality actually works.

I am having trouble with this idea. I have some reservations about the allegorical model to which you refer. Certainly, we are in a search for truth... but truth is relative to the thinker. We have to rely on communicating with one another to engender a generally meaningful synthesis of perceptions and knowledge. As a result, the permutations of possible inquiry will inevitably branch off from one another, each path dictating a different destination we might accept as 'truth.'

I think the fundamental problem is that there is no 'game-ending' truth. The truth is what you accept when you stop looking for it... It is conceivable that, were you to look further still, you might find that it wasn't the truth, or the 'full' truth, and that little 'rabbit hole' jig can go on forever.

... That's where the real power lays -- not in convincing people what is true, but convincing them of what is important in their search for truth, because that's what determines the scope of their actions and attention.

Preach it my friend, preach it.

M

a reply to: Joecroft

What you describe is real. Not only has it been done repeatedly, in the past, but it is still being done today.

The deliberate dilution of information, the obfuscation of fact, the use of "partial science," the crass distraction...

All of these are hallmarks of the antagonists we tip toe around describing.

a reply to: Ian McLean

Insight and good sense on Above Top Secret. The Day of Judgement is surely at hand.

originally posted by: Maxmars
But, with the help of the inteligencia - the would-be architects of control were able to poison the well deeply enough to sow confusion again.

In my opinion, for whatever that can be worth, this strategy is failing them.

First of all, hello old friend, and hello to a couple of other ATS legendary stragglers as well … I am in awe of your localized persistence. I wish I could tell you it’s been a worthwhile struggle, I really do.

There’s not enough bandwidth to get into the fleeting illusory distinction between ‘they/them/I’ … and how they are all just mere aspects of all of us … that is for another conversation.

What I will say in full agreement with you is that yes this strategy will also fail, at least from their limited perspective inasmuch as it becoming the thing that gives ‘them’ the winning hand. For many reasons that are not for this threat ‘they’ are not allowed to succeed. ‘They’ have been promised success by powers higher than most humans can conceive of as the physical meatsacks that provide the precise amount of suffering that gives humans the free will to look within as opposed to outwardly. It is a fine balance that needs be sustained to provide just enough suffering and trauma to trigger self realization and the free will to do so be available to all without crushing them and defeat the purpose of the construct. Those who source the suffering have been baited with great promises, much greater than temporary earthly riches, but they have been lied to. The same way that a drug dealer has been lied to by the cartel.

All those who manipulate on earth on a seemingly grand scale are just functionaries thinking they are CEOs, they are not meant to win but they do not know that. They think they see the big picture the same way a mosquito perceives its universe. They cannot win, they are actually greater slaves than those who they appear to enslave. What awaits them is not fun. None of this is that much fun, it’s not fun to be the lemon squeezer putting all your strength to get the last few drops and it’s not fun to be the last few drops of juice in the lemon before the lemon, ie Gaia is done … it will dent your self esteem and next thing you know you’re looking in all sorts of weird places of the internet for tribal validation.

But I’ve already said too much about all that … the thread topic is you people ruined conspiracies.

originally posted by: schrodingers dog

I was very pleased to find your thread. I hope you can forgive my delay in responding. I will risk missing the point of the thread, for just long enough to address you directly. I only recently returned to ATS, after a long hiatus filled with the same human baggage few seem able to escape. At this point the best that can be said my presence is that it effectively restored, I will have to shy briskly away from 'legendary.'

As to your reference to the "they/them" distinctions, I suppose that such a conversation would be lengthy, and full of obtuse points that are quite often not generally well-received. I ken to your use of "aspects" though... I think it is much more in harmony with my perceptions.

I think we are generally on the same page with the inevitable fate of those orchestrating the farce, and the cloistered reality from which they project their efforts. It's the "bubbles" in which they tend to aggregate. What some might perceive as arrogant/clinical segregation from others is possibly explained by a similar need to be "tribally cohesive."

... Gaia is done … it will dent your self esteem and next thing you know you’re looking in all sorts of weird places of the internet for tribal validation.

Perhaps personal intent is the driver of our collective quest to communicate with each other. But the truth is, I think, that we are all problematically inclined to embrace a "tribal" sense of identity with a set of stated beliefs, and once having done so, we fall prey to same biased thinking patterns that express the mainstream of human behaviors. The defect is in our oft-time failure to perceive how our own feelings color what we can perceive.

But I’ve already said too much about all that … the thread topic is you people ruined conspiracies.

Conspiracies, as I was introduced to the 'perspective,' always struck me as potentially the very best way to tackle issues which are made in communications meant to inform - when the source of those ideas exist far enough outside me to merit deeper investigation.

We all must use the mental tools we have available to us to unravel such matters, and those tools are not equally distributed by the nature of human existence. Not all will discern the same thing (and frankly, some might not even need or want, to make the effort to extract a judgement on the "thing" at all.) We congregate, we aggregate, and exercise "who we are" upon the perception of "what it is."

The conspiracy theory "community" (if there is, in reality, such a thing) suffers from the same defects as any other subject-focused group. Being comprised of individual thinkers, all must express themselves with honesty, sincerity, and clarity. There will be argument. There will be the smothering of passion, the fizzling of zeal, the social pressure to reject dissent and conform. The only solution in my mind is patient persistence, dispassionate objectivity, and a willingness to accept that our perspectives can benefit from alteration without threatening our sense of truth or self.

The problem of pointless dissolution and socially engendered angst manifests itself here, and elsewhere, because our communication form and function have been harmed. Schools don't teach rhetoric; our children aren't rewarded for critical thinking unless it serves the agendas of those who teach. We are programmed, at a fundamental level, to reject "values" we may find natural in our minds, in deference to "values" imposed as a condition to "pass" a class, or please a mentor - or a socio-political construct.

Such is the conditioning of many of the people whose hearts and minds drive them to the more inquisitive constructs of 'conspiracy theory.' No-on asks to be responsible for the way people think... but some are willing to teach their "way" as a cultish ritual - to extend and reinforce their own tribal identity. Perhaps the conspiracy theory community is dysfunctional, fragmented, and rife with nonsense. But so is the outer world we live in.

My friend, a sincere thank you for indulging me here. I hope we can find more ways to exchange ideas... I cherish opportunities to learn.