You little terrorist

this discusion has taken a turn for the better. we have seen a lot of differing views on the subject most of them are valid.

"terrorisim" is indeed in the eye of the beholder. lots of differing comments support this. those commiting these acts do in fact feel justified in it's use. this then is the source of the problem. the western nations have in fact been forceing "their" ideals of freedom upon others.

we must now try to ask ourselves, how best to deal with this problem. i like the statement that was made about seperateing children who are fighting. this may work for children but will not work easily in the case of the middle east. should we force the nation of isrial out and salt the earth of it thereby rendering the land as uninhabitable? all i can see an action like this doing would be to make a bad situation worse, by createing a second enimy with greavences.

do we throw the isralies out and turn the land back over to the palistinians? while this should stop the currant terrorist activities by giveing in to their stated goal. i am sure that there would be enough of the isrialies that would then start their own rein of terror, after all it worked once it should work again. we should not give in to demands of these terrortists, insurgants, freedom fighters whatever we choose to label them.

the best solution of course would be to intigrate both parties. this sounds like a nice easy solution to the problem. unfortunately i don't see either party agreeing to this. the palistinians want there teritory back, (with out the jews in it or the jews under their heels as a subclass). most hardliners would want the removal option. also i am sure that even the moderates would have a hard time trying to trust those who have treated them as harshly as they have been treated. on the other hand even isrial would have simmiler problems. they see the palistinians as a valid threat especialy after dealing with wars to get rid of them and the terrorist threat they have continuasly had to deal with.

with all that mistrust we also have a problem between religen. both the jewish and muslem religens have differing views, even though they are very simmiler in some respects, (like haveing simmiler dietary restrictions).
which religen should be at the heart of the governing party? both have laws that require their people to follow them.

then there is the historical problem both groups can be said to have a valid claim on this territory. on one hand the palistinans had lived in the area for centuries. they have since been treated unjustly, kicked out of their homes and displaced put into "reservations" and treated as a sub-class. the isrialies also have lived in that area for centuries but were driven out and dispersed among other nations. where i might add they had been treated unjustly.

these are the basic problems that need to somehow be delt with. then on top of all of this we have the treatment of the regin by the western nations over the years especialy today. no one is compleatly wrong in how they feel justified in their actions. nor are they compleatly right either.

the "terrorists" do feel that they are fighting for their freedoms. just as isrial and the west are fighting for their freedoms as well. who is in the right? that all depends on who you happen to be. even a lot of everyday criminals feel justified in their actions for one reason or another.

Originally posted by drogo
isrial and the west are fighting for their freedoms as well.

This is the one thing in your post I do not agree on, I feel the West knows what they are doing, but see it as "personal gain - f**K the consequences"... Thats the way I see it anyway... Considering they are not really freeing anyone, rather they are taking one corrupt and bias government and replacing it with another... Simply to suit their needs... Alas this is the nature of Imperialism...

of course under the right environment many of us might become freedom fighters... *ahem*terrorists. Don't expect many who haved lived the life of relative luxury and prosperity to agree with you though, it's hard for some to have empathy on this issue.

thanks,
drfunk

Originally posted by ghostsoldier

Originally posted by drogo
isrial and the west are fighting for their freedoms as well.

This is the one thing in your post I do not agree on, I feel the West knows what they are doing, but see it as "personal gain - f**K the consequences"... Thats the way I see it anyway... Considering they are not really freeing anyone, rather they are taking one corrupt and bias government and replacing it with another... Simply to suit their needs... Alas this is the nature of Imperialism...

what freedom is the west fighting for? the freedom of not haveing terrorists attack us. on our home soil. is that not the chalange that was isued that those harbering terrorists would be attacked? then "iraq has wmd's" sadam must destroy them or we will destroy them. well where are they? oh yeah, sorry i forgot, now it is gaining freedom for the iraq peoples.

yes i belive that there is ulterrior motive involvedl. this being oil.
we must always look for motives within motives. it was an interesting coincidance that the "war on terrorisim" and 9-11 started up at the same time as fuel prices were on the rise. now we have a "puppet" nation that not only has oil but one that was not selling as much thus not depleating it. and should we not get a better price as we have helped "free" those people. iterestingly i heard a sound bite today that stated something about the war being expensive but that it would be paid down by oil.

keep in mind that there seems to be a stong opinion that 9-11 was not a foren terrorist attack. but was purpotrated or at the least asisted by the us government.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier

Originally posted by American Mad Man
So you are telling me that everyone in the WTC was guilty of something?

I think guilty would be the wrong word... Then again so is the word inocent... I would prefer to call them socially-ignorant and/or politically-unaware. The people of America have grown accustomed to their lifestyle, and almost never question why it is possible for them to live the way they do... It is the huge corporations that are destroying the world, and its the ignorant civillians that accomodate them, without realising where the money/resources/power comes from... Do you think if the general public knew the way their imperialistic government worked the world would be in the state it is today - Of course not, because you'd have to be heartless to go about it otherwise...

Oh yes - it is all Americas fault.

Get a dose of reality. All of those Muslims in the Middle East have been living the same way for thousands of years with the same .00001% dominating and the other 99.99999% being screwed. Stop blaming everything on the US.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It's no wonder you support terrorists you #ing scum bag - you have no sense of morals and can't tell evil when you stare it in the face.

The same could be said about you...

Bull#. I would not fly a #ing plane and kill thousands of people. I would not saw the head off of another human. I would not condone children, who have no #ing clue what they are doing, strapping bombs to their chests so that they may blow up themselves and others. I would not take over a school and threaten to kill hundreds of children. I would not blow up a train and kill hundreds of people.

I HAVE MORALS, YOU BY CONDONING THESE ACTIONS DO NOT. YOU ARE EVIL IF YOU SUPORT THEM. THE TERRORISTS WHO DID THESE THINGS ARE EVIL - PERIOD.

While I do not condome unnecercary violence, I do not support turning the other cheek... And this is precicely why the whole issue of "Terrorism" makes me angry, the fact is its people like you who dont see WHY they are fighting... The "terrorists" didn't just wake up one day and say "Hey lets bomb America..."... There was something that led to the hatred, and it was your greedy nation, and their hostile actions that led to the violence you see today...

Terrorism doesnt happen for no reason...

I see why they are fighting. It is because they have a sick and twisted view of religion. They hate everyone that is not of their religion. They need a scape goat for why the majority of their culture is obsolete because they want to keep it.

Of course they blame America. They blame the Europeans. They blame Christians. They blame whites. They blame everyone - EVERYONE but themselves.

The thing of it is, it is the vast MINORITY of the ME that plays these terrorism games. Most just want to become Western like the rest of the world.

Hence why you see Lebenon about to have elections. Hence why Saudi Arabia is having elections. Hence why Irans youth is overwhelmingly becoming more and more Western. Hence why the majority of Iraqis are HAPPY the US came in. And on and on and on.

Face it - terrorism is sick. If you want to attack the military, fine. Thats what it's there for. But ramming a plane into a building to kill a few thousand people who have never done a single thing to harm you is just plain EVIL.

Originally posted by chinalurker
If terrorism is bad or not depends on the situation and point of view.

One way to put it would be that it's usually good from the "terrorist" point of view, and less good from the "victim" point of view.

There's always a purpose and reason behind terrorism.

One could make the same arguement for pedophilia, murder, rape, and robbery, yet bottom line: there is no justification for terrorism.

Ive grown up under very bad and less than ideal circumstances, yet I have managed to do something more productive with my life than bomb people indisctriminately.

Ive grown up under very bad and less than ideal circumstances, yet I have managed to do something more productive with my life than bomb people indisctriminately.

That's great. Perhaps you can even recall some important choices you made that brought you in a positive direction. With some imagination, it's not so difficult to put together a situation where even you... (or I) could become a terrorist anyway. That's my point. Not really if it's justified or not.

Originally posted by chinalurker
That's great. Perhaps you can even recall some important choices you made that brought you in a positive direction. With some imagination, it's not so difficult to put together a situation where even you... (or I) could become a terrorist anyway. That's my point. Not really if it's justified or not.

Your point is invalid. Most people would never be driven to fly a damn plane into an office building so that they may kill thousands of people. Most people wouldn't blow up a train to kill people. Most people wouldn't take over a school so that they could use innocent CHILDREN as hostages to murder.

There are 2 types of people in this world:

Person A, who could be exposed to all of the hardships the world could throw at him, and yet he would still not strap a bomb to his chest and run onto a school bus. He would still not blow up a train and kill hundreds of people. He would still not take over a school and kill children not yet 12 years of age. He would still not fly a #ing airplane into a #ing 100 story building and kill thousands of people!

Then there is person B, the sick # pond scum of the earth who would take out his own hardships on hundreds or thousands of others.

Person B needs to be eliminated from this earth, end of story. Person B is the sick kid that was on this very website and went and shot his schoolmates because they made fun of him.

The very fact that you sympothise with these type of people is a problem and is sick.

You should be in a mental hospital if you would under any circumstance be willing to do what they have done.

Ehum.. Mental hospital Thanx.

My view of terrorism is a little bit more general than the examples given above. Sure killing is the most obvious way of terrorism, but also not the only. You little terrorist

Originally posted by chinalurker

1.) Extreme, long term hunger
2.) Unjustified, brutal maltreatment
3.) Emotional deep depression
4.) Hate
5.) Total life indifference
6.) Life threatening situation (Terrorize Vs Die)

Think before you respond

BR
Chinalurker

Explain why we did not see in South Africa the kind of terrorism we are currently seeing in the Middle East/Islamic World? Surely they met the 6 conditions you state probably even 10 fold over most nations. Why did they not resort to the widespread use of indiscriminate terrorism? I know that there were the tire necklaces ect., but I don't seem to recall suicide bombers going into nightclubs to take out as many Afrikaaners as they could. There is something more than just the conditions you outline that explains what we are seeing in the Middle East/Islamic world. When a nation encourages it youth to aspire to be nothing more than human bombs taking out as many innocents as possible, then something is terribly wrong with that society. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
I think guilty would be the wrong word... Then again so is the word innocent... I would prefer to call them socially-ignorant and/or politically-unaware. The people of America have grown accustomed to their lifestyle, and almost never question why it is possible for them to live the way they do... It is the huge corporations that are destroying the world, and its the ignorant civilians that accommodate them, without realising where the money/resources/power comes from... Do you think if the general public knew the way their imperialistic government worked the world would be in the state it is today - Of course not, because you'd have to be heartless to go about it otherwise...

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Oh yes - it is all Americas fault.

Get a dose of reality. All of those Muslims in the Middle East have been living the same way for thousands of years with the same .00001% dominating and the other 99.99999% being screwed. Stop blaming everything on the US.

That is the way almost all of the worlds political systems work, with one elitist group in power and the rest of the populous left to squander what they can from the corrupt and greedy system. The thing that makes the Middle East different is the fact that they have been prohibited from developing by themselves… Imperialist nations come in and squash any hope of them building a nation on their own, they destroy their economies, their power, their culture – thus leaving them completely defenceless. In this defenceless state the invading country attempts to “rebuild” the country (that they destroyed) to suit their imperialistic “needs” … The US is not the only perpetrator – however it is a major source for such action…

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It's no wonder you support terrorists you #ing scum bag - you have no sense of morals and can't tell evil when you stare it in the face.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
The same could be said about you...

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Bull#. I would not fly a #ing plane and kill thousands of people. I would not saw the head off of another human. I would not condone children, who have no #ing clue what they are doing, strapping bombs to their chests so that they may blow up themselves and others. I would not take over a school and threaten to kill hundreds of children. I would not blow up a train and kill hundreds of people.

Again, the US and other nations are just as responsible for such acts, and are committing more atrocities of the like.

So you don’t personally fly planes into buildings – but do you not support your government bombing schools and storming innocent peoples houses
So you don’t personally behead other humans – but do not you support your government using munitions laced with depleted Uranium, chemical poisoning is a worse way to die…
So you don’t personally strap children with explosives and send them on missions to die – but do you not support you’re government sending eighteen year old boys off to do your governments biddings, only to take a bullet to the brain…
So you don’t personally take over a school and threaten to kill children – but do you not support your government carpet bombing cities and in the process leaving women widows and children parentless, which then witness their country become occupied by the very men who did it
So you don’t personally blow up trains killing people – do you not support your government in the destruction of facilities all throughout the middle-east which you feel are threats…

You’re government is just as guilty for committing such acts as the so called “terrorists”, so don’t condemn them, until you condemn yourself aswell, because you as the American public, and the worlds public, is what is facilitating the atrocities your government is committing… Collectively the fighting around the world could be stopped, if people, from all countries merely saw that they are killing FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, not some sub-species… BUT FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS… You may not be their with your gun to someones head, but YOU ARE allowing the murderer to pull the trigger, by not taking a stand for your fellow HUMAN BEINGS!