AI cracking undeciphered languages!!!

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

Oops! My comment was directed at the mit.edu article. I linked to word2vec's actual code in case someone wanted to build it and play with it.

Word2vec is an algorithm used in natural language processing to extract relationships of words. For example, you can ask questions of the model like how to get words that are like one suggested. For example, you give it woman it suggests queen. You can use it to fill in words in a partial sentence. (Likely how google docs/mail suggests your next word to type.) You can use it to search articles about France from giving the word Paris.

So how this relates to the OP is that it looks like they created an auto encoder that uses relationships of phonemes (the sound each letter makes) and how they evolve between languages. A "b" and a "p" are similar but "b" and "k" are not. At a higher level this lets it see patterns that an expert might detect. And like word2vec, it can deduce relationships, synonym, antonyms, sentiment, etc.

We live in amazing times. This would never be possible 10 years ago. We didn't even have a hint how to do it back then.

a reply to: inert

Hey---thanks for the reply.

And you are right....we are living in exciting times indeed.

Like another posted commented---deciphering something like the Voynich Manuscript would be fascinating.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
Get it to decipher the Voyenich Manuscript then im impressed

Let it go to work on hieroglyphics without help of known translations or the Rosetta Stone.

See what it comes up with, and whether it's remotely close.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: atlantiswatusi

after thousands of years you would see signs of our "disturbance" in the soil so to speak.

And , how would the "disturbance" in the soil be interpreted after thousands of years ?
Primitive civilization ?
Perhaps the same as Puma Punku is viewed today ?

Some of images of what archaeologically distinct marking can be left in the soil by mans building on it or modifying it

cotswoldarchaeology.co.uk...

The science of language is called Epistemology, and the scientists are called Linguists. If there is such a thing as a epistemology language Universality Thesis, then I guess it could be done - however, linguists are not in agreement if any universality thesis exists. If any such suggested AI was to be programmed, it would have to implement some kind of epistemology language universality thesis rule engine for it to work.

Epistemology for the Rest of the World

-MM

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
AI will be able to crack any code. Strong AI that is.

The ancient-history site is interesting. I follow it on facebook. But they seem to like Sitchen, which makes them nothing more than a site to gather subjects for musing.

That site often put up unscientific fringe ideas uncritically. When it puts up anything I go find the original source which usually doesn't fully support - or not at all - what they say.

They are suspect D+ for accuracy.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
AI will be able to crack any code. Strong AI that is.

The ancient-history site is interesting. I follow it on facebook. But they seem to like Sitchen, which makes them nothing more than a site to gather subjects for musing.

That site often put up unscientific fringe ideas uncritically. When it puts up anything I go find the original source which usually doesn't fully support - or not at all - what they say.

They are suspect D+ for accuracy.

Yeah, but when you want something to ponder, or muse over, they provide good fodder.

Something I think is undervalued is the role fiction plays in the real world.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
AI will be able to crack any code. Strong AI that is.

The ancient-history site is interesting. I follow it on facebook. But they seem to like Sitchen, which makes them nothing more than a site to gather subjects for musing.

That site often put up unscientific fringe ideas uncritically. When it puts up anything I go find the original source which usually doesn't fully support - or not at all - what they say.

They are suspect D+ for accuracy.

Yeah, but when you want something to ponder, or muse over, they provide good fodder.

Something I think is undervalued is the role fiction plays in the real world.

Sure I read them all the time because they often mention stuff - that they mangle - but the source of it is often of interest. The above issue is a good example of it - look at the story and information not what they say which is often biased or just silly.

originally posted by: atlantiswatusi
a reply to: Gothmog

It's not that I dismiss the possibility....I'm just learning to be very skeptical.

Take a big landlocked town in IA. In thousands of years I imagine there would still be evidence of the city planning.

Yes, but would folks say it was very "primitive" ?
That is my point .
Would they classify it as some form of religious worship center ?

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: atlantiswatusi

after thousands of years you would see signs of our "disturbance" in the soil so to speak.

And , how would the "disturbance" in the soil be interpreted after thousands of years ?
Primitive civilization ?
Perhaps the same as Puma Punku is viewed today ?

Some of images of what archaeologically distinct marking can be left in the soil by mans building on it or modifying it

cotswoldarchaeology.co.uk...

Yes , I understood that.
Completely.
As we do today .

originally posted by: panoz77
The tablet was deciphered to read:

"What came first, the chicken or the egg?"

DON'T FORGET TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE

Pretty sure that this website is AI trying to “read” and produce languages. It was always weird and one of the members there is also a member here. There is a HUGE thread on ATS about it.

Forgotten languages

ATS thread

a reply to: Doodle19815

I tried to fall down into that rabbit hole. The stuff on Joroft is interesting...I think I found that inside your link

BUT vampires? EHGADS. I read sci fy and fantasy and enjoy it. But its not something I believe in. Still....that site is super intriguing. I just can't read 90% of it which makes it a lost cause

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

Thousands and thousands of years pass by...the Megalithic structures will probably still be there, whilst any signs of our flimsy plastic, glass and metal civilisation are gone. I wonder if the academics of the future will class any discoveries as "ritual", "religious" or "ceremonial".

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

Isnt the Amazons Soil an example of our Footprint?

What sort of Footprint would be left after weapons more Advanced then ours?

originally posted by: fromtheskydown
a reply to: atlantiswatusi

Thousands and thousands of years pass by...the Megalithic structures will probably still be there, whilst any signs of our flimsy plastic, glass and metal civilisation are gone. I wonder if the academics of the future will class any discoveries as "ritual", "religious" or "ceremonial".

No it will still be there, you are forgetting we use rock too and have created vast quarries and tunnels 18+ kilometers thru solid granite, not to mention gold ornaments, millions of cut gems, reinforced concrete satellites in space, massive, ceramics, radiation sources, and most telling evidence of pollution in sediments and ice cores. etc.

a reply to: atlantiswatusi
Wow! I hope they can use it crack Meroetic which can be read but not understood.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: fromtheskydown
a reply to: atlantiswatusi

Thousands and thousands of years pass by...the Megalithic structures will probably still be there, whilst any signs of our flimsy plastic, glass and metal civilisation are gone. I wonder if the academics of the future will class any discoveries as "ritual", "religious" or "ceremonial".

No it will still be there, you are forgetting we use rock too and have created vast quarries and tunnels 18+ kilometers thru solid granite, not to mention gold ornaments, millions of cut gems, reinforced concrete satellites in space, massive, ceramics, radiation sources, and most telling evidence of pollution in sediments and ice cores. etc.

It was a bit of a rash generalisation, I still think the Pyramids will be here long after our glass towers have gone. Could pollution in sediment and ice cores be non-existent if the technology used was non-destructive to the planet's eco system and materials were biodegradable? Could there be more telling evidence deeper than we have currently been digging?

Any luck with Rongo Rongo?

It was a bit of a rash generalisation, I still think the Pyramids will be here long after our glass towers have gone.

The steel framing may fail and they crash to the ground but the foundation will still be there along with the broken glass, a nice mound of actually along with all the plastic, ceramic and other stuff that will await a future grad student with a shovel.

Could pollution in sediment and ice cores be non-existent if the technology used was non-destructive to the planet's eco system and materials were biodegradable?

Yes but they can currently detect the Roman increase in the smelting of lead, very minor but detectable. These folks would have had to do so many things to avoid detection it is uncertain if they could survive.

Yes many years ago on another defunct forum I created the following list of how a civilization could remain undetected called...wait for it.... How a civilization can remain undetected

1. have very few people - but this will tend to limit your technological advancement
2. don't make fires
3. don't make pottery or bake clay
4. don't modify the environment in any way whatsoever
5. don't domesticate animals or plants
6. don't eat shell fish (the middens are easy to spot)
7. don't bury people, destroy bodies at death and disperse the bones - crush the teeth
8. absolutely no use of stone for tools, do not modify ivory, bone or shells either
9. never disturb the earth (by driving in a stake)
10. don't hunt animals and if you do widely disperse their remains
11. move constantly to avoid a build-up of waste, both human and food remains
12. don't live near a lake or other place where sediments, pollen and pollutants gather

There if you do all that you'll be fairly undetectable The real killer is #5 without the food from agriculture you'd have real problems feeding a 'city'.

Could there be more telling evidence deeper than we have currently been digging?

Yes but people have dug into earlier layers or erosion has made those older layers close to the surface or exposed them - nothing (yet) found.

I've been tracking papers on the Eemian period and not a lot of archaeologists dig to that level because there isn't much to find or inspire such digs but geologists do and to date nothing there either (about 130,000 years ago). My pet theory is that the flowering of human society we saw at the end of the last ice age might have happened at the PREVIOUS ice age ended - no evidence yet!