13 foot hole in side of sunken ferry

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's hard to believe a submarine hit the ship.
The seas were very rough when this happened and a submarine wouldn't likely be that close to the surface because it would be hard to control.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
It's hard to believe a submarine hit the ship.

Pictures of the wreck's hull would clear this up.

I remember this, the theory that rings true to me the most is the one where the Russian Intelligence sank The Estonia to "send a message" after the ferry had been used multiple times to smuggle out Russian military technologies to their enemies in the west, the smuggling operation was led by British MI6.

Despite the break-up of the Soviet Union, and the end of the cold war, the west still kept a close eye on Russian military capability, particularly its missile technology. (Of course Russia still had, and has, thousands of nuclear weapons.) One such smuggled shipment, of electronic guidance systems for missiles, had been on the Estonia when it sank. MI6 had been involved in the smuggling operation.

Source: www.newstatesman.com...

-MM

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bluntone22
It's hard to believe a submarine hit the ship.

Pictures of the wreck's hull would clear this up.

Yep..
In or out....
Russian paint...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bluntone22
It's hard to believe a submarine hit the ship.

Pictures of the wreck's hull would clear this up.

You can watch it (behind the paywall) here www.dplay.no...
, then there´s a free trailer, but it don´t reveal much.

-MM

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's hard to believe a submarine hit the ship.
The seas were very rough when this happened and a submarine wouldn't likely be that close to the surface because it would be hard to control.

I doubt a military submarine would make a hole as small as 4 meters (13 feet) in diameter, it would have been a lot bigger imo. Submarines are often 3-4 times as wide as that.

-MM

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
You can watch it (behind the paywall)...

That means I can't watch it.

Post screen captures if you can.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
I doubt a military submarine would make a hole as small as 4 meters (13 feet) in diameter, it would have been a lot bigger imo.

It all depends on what part of the submarine collided with what part of the ferry, where and at what speed.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's hard to believe a submarine hit the ship.
The seas were very rough when this happened and a submarine wouldn't likely be that close to the surface because it would be hard to control.

I doubt a military submarine would make a hole as small as 4 meters (13 feet) in diameter, it would have been a lot bigger imo. Submarines are often 3-4 times as wide as that.

-MM

If the sail or a dive plane hit the ship instead of the hull it could happen I suppose. But like I said earlier, I doubt a sub would be that close to the surface in 20 foot seas.

originally posted by: kamatty
From Wikipedia....

Citing the practical difficulties and the moral implications of raising decaying bodies from the sea floor (the majority of the bodies were never recovered), and fearing the financial burden of lifting the entire hull to the surface and the salvage operation, the Swedish government suggested burying the whole ship in situ with a shell of concrete.[33][34] As a preliminary step, thousands of tons of pebbles were dropped on the site.[32] The Estonia Agreement 1995, a treaty among Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Denmark, Russia and the United Kingdom, declared sanctity over the site, prohibiting their citizens from even approaching the wreck.[35] The treaty is, however, only binding for citizens of the countries that are signatories. At least twice, the Swedish Navy has discovered diving operations at the wreck. The wreck is monitored by radar by the Finnish Navy.[36]



That definitely sounds like they (literally) tried to cover something up

Indeed : sounds like a cover-up...

Was any conspiracy theorists onto it ?

Some links, i do not know any particular English site that would cover all possible information


The M/S 'Estonia' Sinking Investigation The biggest Scam in maritime History

M/V Estonia disaster


mv_estonia

It's very possible the hole was made from the navy dropping tons of gravel onto it at a later date, putting that much weight on an already weakened hull isnt going to go without some consequence.

I think I remember that the thought did arise that a sub could of hit the doors and bent them enough for water to get in...... but I'm sure that was quickly dismissed.

The vagueness of my memory surrounding this could be causing me to get incidences mixed up ..... it has happened before

www.youtube.com...


When Estonia is talking over the radio you can hear all the alarms going off in the background. Right around 3.50 is the last transmission the Estonia sent

a reply to: Bluntone22

I suppose it would depend on the vessel.

Russia was still operating older designs around that time, especially hunter-killer class subs... If a collision happened it would be a smaller class I would suspect. The foxtrot class seems to fit the bill tbh.

There's plenty of reasons why a sub may surface, speed, damage, air, drills or even practicing maneuvers. The Russians are famed for being reckless too.

Also the hole is apparently below what would have been the water line, a vehicle piercing the hull such as a truck would have to fall through a deck first from what I gather

I'm trying to find pictures of the damage.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AaarghZombies

Shrugs?

You are a smart guy..obviously it's much easier to punch a 4" pointed thing through, than a 13' W.H.Y.

a reply to: vonclod

You'd need a 13' shell and a shed loads of propellant to get neat holes like that. It's a somewhat apples and oranges comparison.

Hulls are rarely made with that level of integrity anymore, not that civilian ships ever have been. A collision would cause a crumpling effect, tears and bending. There'd be a knock on effect with the framing that supports the decks and hull plating.

There are some photos and a diver movie of the hole here:

www.vg... .no/nyheter/utenriks/i/pA6RyR/tidligere-estonia-gransker-til-vg-svenske-myndigheter-maa-ha-visst-om-hullet-i-skroget

To me at least, the hole seems to be pushed out - like something exploded inside the ferry, but this could also be because something huge like a truck inside the ferry hit the sides when the ferry sunk.

-MM