We Finally Know How Much Radiation There Is on The Moon, And It's Not Great News

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

But I have come to realize that that dream was made of hope and smoke and it ain't gonna happen.

Those finances and hopes need to be redirected to our planet alone. Figure out how to sustain our species right here. And do it fast.

I’m in total agreement..... your most poignant thoughts are quoted above.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I recall vividly a time back in the sixties when this argument was made. That the dream of the moon was all well and good but the money would be better spent on fixing things here before going into space. At that time I came down on the ''yeah but'' the MOOOOOON side of the debate. At that time I reckoned that we needed to open that door to keep the notion of human expansion into space as a driving force for our united effort as a species for the future. I no longer hold that opinion.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1
You could get away with building a single HQ which takes into factor many things all at once, both cheap, economical and efficient.

Think about it, find a potential site where it’s best to access a potential lava tube and build there. While construction is ongoing above, engineers, at the same time, began excavating towards the tube. Once contact is made and a thorough investigation done, via drone or astronaut, they can began to expand from there.
Add in monthly rotations and tons of automation, all at the international level, I think it’ll work out.

Only the richest of Nations will be able to afford there own “Habitat” so to speak.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1
From my sci-fi days, among the thousands of novels I read, there are two that continue to hold my attention to our immediate future. Both revolved around isolated enclaves. One, ''Zardoz'' was made into a movie where a colony of rich people, very smart and very wealthy established themselves in a remote mountainous area and divorced themselves from the rest of the desolation that was coming down.

Another was Duende Meadows that offered the notion of a subterranean bunker, huge in size that also was a refuge for very wealthy people and how they emerged a hundred years later to a different world. Kind of like the dreams of Dr. Strangelove at the end of the movie, a place for the privileged to hold up until things had past. Sadly that sounds all to predicable at this point only what those folk might emerge to later on is questionable.

originally posted by: buddha
....so its safe to go to the moon !

Really, I wouldn’t stand behind your statement.... but that’s probably just me.

Get a load of this...... Don't Breathe the Moondust

Your probably privy to information NASA doesn’t have


The last sentence of the article reads “ But, says Kerschmann, "I strongly believe it's a problem that can be controlled."

This is an unproven theory that currently remains speculative....or part of that hope (false) ...

To think... moon dust and problems from it known in the 60’s, 70’s... and here we are in 2020 with no real all encompassing means of mitigation..... what have we been doing in the last few decades?

I would answer that as being dumbed down and hardwiring ourselves in technology and career building (A lot of it for personal greed and power) ... imo

There’s an ol saying that goes like this.... “who cares if it works! as long as it looks good”

The radiation problem in space is easy to over come. All that has to be done is to use high powered magnets to deflect the radiation.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Do we haul up heavy construction equipment to build underground?

There's no need for that.

As has been mentioned, old lava tubes can be used, and there's no need to make skylights to enter them, as dozens of those were already identified on the Moon, some around 100 metres wide, big enough for a landing module to enter it.
They would be limited at first to exploring inside the lava tube, unless they find a lava tube that has an opening at the end (I didn't have the time to see if one of those is already known or not). That way they just had to land close to it to be able to enter and exit it at will.

As for the problems the dust brings, I don't see that as a big problem, there's dust also on Earth and what do we do? We clean it and use filters to avoid breathing it.

Seriously, I don't see any of those as insurmountable problems.

originally posted by: 00018GE
The radiation problem in space is easy to over come. All that has to be done is to use high powered magnets to deflect the radiation.

No its not that easy to generate that kind of field would require alot of power. On the surface the easiest way is lunar soil about 50 cm would be enough to block soalr radiation. You could bury your base when completed and no digging would be needed. Only bad part would be your door seals would wear out quickly with all the lunar dust around.

a reply to: ArMaP

As has been mentioned, old lava tubes can be used

Let's hope those tubes aren't occupied already ...

a reply to: 0bserver1

By/with what?

The more we start analyzing the reality of space travel, the more apparent it is that something wants us to stay put.

originally posted by: ArMaP
As for the problems the dust brings, I don't see that as a big problem, there's dust also on Earth and what do we do? We clean it and use filters to avoid breathing it.

Seriously, I don't see any of those as insurmountable problems.

The dust isn't an unsurmountable problem, but it could be a problem. It's quite a bit different from the dust on earth. Here's an article about the problems with moon dust:

Moon Dust Could Be a Problem for Future Lunar Explorers

"The more time you spend there, the more you get covered from helmet to boots with lunar dust," recalled Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin. Apollo 17 commander Gene Cernan expressed similar thoughts in a technical debrief following his mission, which was the last human sojourn to the moon. "I think dust is probably one of our greatest inhibitors to a nominal operation on the moon. I think we can overcome other physiological or physical or mechanical problems except dust," he said...

Schmitt had what some tag as history's first recorded case of extraterrestrial hay fever. "It's come on pretty fast," he radioed from the moon to mission control in Houston in a congested voice. He had a significant reaction to moon dust, which caused the cartilage plates in the walls of his nasal chambers to swell...

Cain observed that lunar regolith contains several types of reactive dust, including silicon dioxide (50%), iron oxide and calcium oxide (45%), and other oxides (5%). Silicon dioxide is highly toxic; dusts containing silica on Earth are responsible for silicosis, a life-threatening lung disease found mainly in stonemasons.

Earth dust tends to be smooth because it gets eroded from friction when it's wind blown. In contrast, the moon dust has been described like tiny little shards of broken glass with sharp edges. Don't underestimate the issues with moon dust by comparing it to Earth dust, since the differences seem significant.

originally posted by: 00018GE
The radiation problem in space is easy to over come. All that has to be done is to use high powered magnets to deflect the radiation.

It's not that easy. Earth protects us with a magnetic field, and an atmosphere. The magnetic field of Earth redirects low energy particles like solar wind, but it doesn't stop high energy particles like cosmic rays. They are moving so fast that Earth's magnetic field only curves them a tiny bit. If you wanted to make a magnetic field powerful enough to deflect cosmic rays in space, a magnetic field that strong could actually harm the astronauts.

For the high energy galactic cosmic rays (GCRs) that astronauts will be exposed to, these so-called passive shields are too massive to be practical and will likely produce showers of secondary radiation that could be more harmful than the GCRs themselves.

Active shields which rely on magnetic (or electric) fields to deflect energetic particles offer a potential solution to the problem. Designing a magnetic shield that is strong enough to deflect GCR particles but weak enough to not harm astronauts is a challenge.

originally posted by: Redhead6971
The more we start analyzing the reality of space travel, the more apparent it is that something wants us to stay put.

No doubt there are hazards to overcome if even possible to solve i.e. ...radiation, dust, not yet knowing about possibly things we have yet to discover. I mean, we are “just now” so to speak, finding higher radiation on the moon then was once thought and never tested for till now. As if we couldn’t send a moon roving probe long ago... and now we are somewhat embarrassed as a nation, to give China coodo’s (probably grudgingly) for sending it’s Chang'E 4 lander in 2019.

My whole take on your statement and also in agreement is this...

We are a all creatures created to this living, space traveling, biosphere. Our breathable atmosphere is like no other planet or moon in our solar system. We are tuned by frequency and vibration and calibrated to exist here on earth. We are symbiotically matched.

Artificial life-support is not being human...our essence of life is lost to it when our dependence of life is based on the dependence of gadgets and widgets .... not biological in nature of our being.

A life of living in space suits, and environments void of natural air makes us prisoners by our own means.

Yes, something greater than us wants us to stay put .....and be satisfied with what’s already been created to sustain us. Earth for all practical purposes is our mothership.

I choose to stay on terra firma of this biosphere ... and live the years given to me... and look to the stars knowing I am already among the stars.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

BY YOUR ARGUMENT RARTH IS JUST A BIGGER CAGE. Don't you think if there is a god and he did not want us to leave. Then he wouldnt have given us the abilities to do so?

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

BY YOUR ARGUMENT RARTH IS JUST A BIGGER CAGE. Don't you think if there is a god and he did not want us to leave. Then he wouldnt have given us the abilities to do so?

I suspect this is your God below who is by no means the creator of the universe ala Mr. Big Bang himself.

originally posted by: madmac5150
We don't live on the moon.

The only downside to this news, is lunar real estate speculation. That won't fare well.

Time shares, would be fine since most people vacation for less than a month anyways.

Seriously though, two months at a time per crew shift? We could get so much science and research done it wouldn't even compare to any other time in human history to that point. Oh, and the joke about time shares, think about that before you laugh at it. No civilian would really want to live on the moon, but vacationing there for a few weeks every year or two. Oh yeah I can see people doing that, couldn't you?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I know Moon dust is different, but I also think that the astronauts were not really prepared for the dust, so it was a kind of unexpected problem, while now we know that's a problem, so we can look for solutions.

For example, one of the problems they had was the result of the dust entering their "living space", something they couldn't prevent from happening and something that can be prevented in the future because we now know that will be a problem.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1
People spend their productive lives in coal mines. Others mining sulfur and uranium. People will brave lunar dust. Let the robots and the remote controlled construction equipment do the rest.

Your starting to sound like a mask hypochondriac. Omg a slightly elevated level of risk! That moon will have a six flags one day. Maybe even a Busch gardens.

a reply to: ArMaP

Eh , moon rocks?

a reply to: ArMaP

There are some possibilities such as a formula to break the static discharge on clothing and equipment. But even with that things will wear out quickly on the moon as the dust will just take its toll on machined parts. Its mostly glass so yeah it can wear things down. The health hazzard also occurs if you breath it in think asbestos that is glass as well. But im sure with proper care its not going to be a huge problem as long as its planned for.


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