Canada US relations

The attached link below is for a letter sent to Condoleeza Rice from Lloyd Axworthy.

Link

It provides a really good picture of how a lot of Canadians view recent American activities and courses of action taken by President Bush. This is not an anti-American post. I would just like to provide this as an example of how we are not anti-American, we just have a difference of opinion and would appreciate some understanding that we are our own independent Country.

Feel free to post your thoughts,
Lukefj.

I read the letter feeling it to be a bit condecending. I understand the content but I'm sure if I were Codi or her handlers I wouldn't have gotten past the first paragraph, and I'm sure it didn't get to her. I hope it did. I have my own battles with the style of our politics, but I feel everyone should have their say.

This letter from your old Foreign Minister is a slam. The letter starts out slamming Condi from the get go "I"m glad you decided to get over your fit of pique". Then it goes on to slam Bush "I know it seems improbable of your divinely guided master in the white house". Ouch, after reading that you can not really concentrate on the rest of his message. If the intent was not to piss off Condi then he would not have started his letter out in such a manner.

Canadians are definately entitled to their own opinions and policies but if you are trying to repair relations this is not the way to start.

My question is did the current Canadian Government put Axworthy up to sending the letter or did he do it on his own? Coming from Axworthy is a little bit different since he is not currently in the administration.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001

This letter from your old Foreign Minister is a slam.

My question is did the current Canadian Government put Axworthy up to sending the letter or did he do it on his own? Coming from Axworthy is a little bit different since he is not currently in the administration.

Axworthy is hamming for his fans. He's a professional, and would NEVER start a real letter to a colleague with "Dear Condi."

...This is an article written in letter format - that's why it's called an "open letter." I doubt he even sent a copy to Rice. But it is kinda funny.

This looks like an internet hoax to me.

Even a Canadian Politicains isn't that big of an a-hole.


Ooops,, I gues he is.


Definitely an op-ed piece, however.

At least this clown is a former minister.

I guess the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly of stupid politicans, eh?


[edit on 16-3-2005 by HowardRoark]

Not a Hoax. This was an open letter that was carried in a Canadian newspaper. Soficrow is right in that this letter is in part intended as jest, but he still cuts to the heart of how Canadians feel about strong handed political aggressiveness on behalf of the US.

I am also sure that this letter was not delivered to Condoleeza Rice, but I wish she would read it because there are a few things that can be gleaned from this letter.

I'm sure the current Canadian Government had nothing to do with this letter and would certainly not condone it publicly, but I'm sure there are a few behind the scenes high fives.

EDIT: Roark, I assure you that Axworthy is not a dill-hole, but wrote the letter in a manner which would attract a Canadian audience, humour. While it may be insulting to you to hear your politicians slandered which is worse the slander, or the facts behind the slander?

Lukefj

[edit on 16-3-2005 by Lukefj]

If this is humor, and just that, then I have no problem with it. Hell the U.S. pundits have written much worse.

He is entitled to be as pompous as he wants.

Let's see, the Canadians say they are striving to repair relations with the US but yet we have had several of their politicians making comments that should be reserved for either the men's locker room or a bar filled with truckers. I can assure you that this is hardle the way to go.

Let's begin with 1 simple fact: Canada has the LUXURY of spending it's tax dollars on "Daycare and health programs" because it knows that the US will provide for their defense... as always. We Americans certainly appreciate your appreciation of this fact.

Secondly, the "Author's" (If one would be interested in calling him such) claim of empire rings hollow. If America were the empire that he accuses us of being, why would we not begin by annexing Canada? After all, you have no real military to speak of, are our neighbors and possess resources that would be beneficial to the United States. Yet we have taken no action toward "Empire" as accused. Such a claim is seemingly unjust and untrue.

I would hope that this "gentleman" does not speak for the whole of Canada as I have met many wonderful people while frequenting the country who did not seem to espouse such beliefs. If I am wrong then I will be deeply disppointed by our neighbors to the North.

1. Canada is sick of trying to repair relations with a nation that flagrantly contravenes NAFTA.

2. As for defence, Canada has extremely few enemies. We aren't a giant bullet magnet like the US. The fact that we're stuck next to you MAKES us a target.

3. The US busies itself picking on countries smaller than itself by a long shot. Canada is roughly the same size, in terms of land.

4. Maybe, if American's didn't badmouth us to much adn try to ruin our economy, they'd be more welcome here.

DE

I saw him on CBC Newsworld responding to it, he did write it.

They asked why he was being funny and he said so far serious hasn't worked.

I thought it was a great letter, especially the part where he mentions Question Period and the dissent that goes on every day in Canadian politics.

Bravo Lloyd!


jako

Reading the Americans posts on this site make me laugh sometimes. Why should we Canadians be walking on egg shells to repair our relations with the U.S. when your government keeps performing illegal protectionist acts against our trade. Softwood lumber, beef, you try to steal our electricity(California owes British Columbia almost $250 million in unpaid electrical bills). Softwood alone has cost BC around 50 000 jobs and to make matters worse legislation was put forward in the U.S. to take the billions collected from the tariffs and give it to U.S. forest producers. HHmmm, this whole thing got started because the U.S. accused Canada of unfairly subsidizing our industry yet they want to take money from us as punishment for this and subsidize they're own industry with our dollars??? Sounds fair to me!!

Back to the topic at hand, it's clearly an example of truth mixed with humour to get a reaction. I highly doubt that Condi will read it but hopefully some Americans will and realize that the slack the U.S. is getting from the World isn't because we hate Americans, but that we are all sovereign nations and are entitled to act as we feel appropriate and do not have to take direction from a foreign power that is only interested in its agenda and no one elses.

Originally posted by kozmo
Let's see, the Canadians say they are striving to repair relations with the US but yet we have had several of their politicians making comments that should be reserved for either the men's locker room or a bar filled with truckers. I can assure you that this is hardle the way to go.

Let me clear your confusion. Lloyd Axworthy is a FORMER politician, not a current one, so your criticism of our politicians is unfounded. What is the way to go, we've tried diplomacy, we've tried nearly everything else. It seems the only way to get attention of America is to bruise its ego.

Let's begin with 1 simple fact: Canada has the LUXURY of spending it's tax dollars on "Daycare and health programs" because it knows that the US will provide for their defense... as always. We Americans certainly appreciate your appreciation of this fact.

LAUGH. Again, let me clear some confusion for you. Canada has the LUXURY of spending tax dollars on "daycare and health programs" because as a poster said earlier, we don't have many enemies. We don't force diplomacy on countries who don't want it, we don't go to war on a whim, and we don't feel the need to be a global bully. As was said, being your neighbour does not protect us, it makes us a target. Luckily we have enough goodwill out there to deter serious threat.

Secondly, the "Author's" (If one would be interested in calling him such) claim of empire rings hollow. If America were the empire that he accuses us of being, why would we not begin by annexing Canada? After all, you have no real military to speak of, are our neighbors and possess resources that would be beneficial to the United States. Yet we have taken no action toward "Empire" as accused. Such a claim is seemingly unjust and untrue.

Every empire falls eventually. An attempt on Canada would be the end of US power. It is a relative certainty that almost every nation in the world would become an ally of Canada to fight off the US. The US is strong, but not strong enough to fight off everyone. Not to mention the fact that the US government is probably a little timid in that the last time you tried to do that we burnt the White House to the ground. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I would hope that this "gentleman" does not speak for the whole of Canada as I have met many wonderful people while frequenting the country who did not seem to espouse such beliefs. If I am wrong then I will be deeply disppointed by our neighbors to the North.

I can tell you that a lot of the sentiment that was present in his letter echoes the thoughts of, I would dare to say, the majority of Canadians. I have no doubt tha tyou have met many wonderful people here in Canada. This is due to the fact that we are wonderful people. However, we are, to put it bluntly, sick of the hypocrisy of the American government.

Peace,
Lukefj

Every empire falls eventually. An attempt on Canada would be the end of US power. It is a relative certainty that almost every nation in the world would become an ally of Canada to fight off the US. The US is strong, but not strong enough to fight off everyone. Not to mention the fact that the US government is probably a little timid in that the last time you tried to do that we burnt the White House to the ground. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Lets not get carried away. I do not think that Canada has spread around so much brotherly love that every country would come to her aid. Canada would be a quick and easy target. The only country that has a chance militarily right now against the US is Russia and that is because she has enough nukes to totally destroy the US.

Ah, burning down the White House was the highlight of the war of 1812 for you guys. Too bad you lost the war. That is 2 times in a row. tTe 3rd time we will not let you survive. Don't try us again my friend.

I can assure you that the US would not be allowed to advance on Canada and that yes, the US would be toppled by a combined effort by the majority of the globe. Here is why:

1. Succesful takeover of Canada would make the US provide the US with far too many resources and countries like China and Russia would not want to see that.

2. The US has a lot of enemies, you can bet that any sort of coalition against the US with support from countries like Britain Australia, China and Russia would rally many countries such as North Korea, Japan, and all of the middle east.

Not that the US would even attempt it, but lets face it, the rest of the world wouldn't let it happen. If they ever did I'll be sure to have lots of marshmellows on hand to roast on the pyre that is yoru Whitehouse

Peace,
Lukefj

Originally posted by Lukefj
I can assure you that the US would not be allowed to advance on Canada and that yes, the US would be toppled by a combined effort by the majority of the globe. Here is why:

1. Succesful takeover of Canada would make the US provide the US with far too many resources and countries like China and Russia would not want to see that.

2. The US has a lot of enemies, you can bet that any sort of coalition against the US with support from countries like Britain Australia, China and Russia would rally many countries such as North Korea, Japan, and all of the middle east.

Not that the US would even attempt it, but lets face it, the rest of the world wouldn't let it happen. If they ever did I'll be sure to have lots of marshmellows on hand to roast on the pyre that is yoru Whitehouse

Peace,
Lukefj

Lukefj, your statement indicates that you are counting on the rest of the world to protect you. That is a position of weakness. China would do nothing since we are its largest trading partner. I do not think Russia would stick her neck out for you. Most countries already consider America as being in control of North America anyway. so with that you would have protests in the UN etc... but in the end you would have the same situation as in Iraq, a lot of complaining but no action. The oil in Iraq is most likely comparable to the oil in your country.

If it came to war with Canada since you have virtually no military and your populous has been for th emost part disarmed you would not stand a chance. It would be more likely that I would be roasting your pet dog on your capitals front lawn than you roasting marshmellows at the White house.

It is good to have pride in ones country but don't be ridiculous.

Thanks for playing try again.

Well, that's a pretty big gamble on your part. I personally believe it would start WW3. canada is not Iraq, we have many allies. You completely dismissed the fact that control of Canada would make the US unquestionably the most powerful and largest country in the world. Countries like Russia and China would not want this to happen. Not to mention our good friend Britain.

It is good to have pride in your country...it's when you feel your country is infallable that you fall.

In actual fact our population has more guns per capita than the US. We just choose not to shoot each other.

Peace,
Lukefj

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Ah, burning down the White House was the highlight of the war of 1812 for you guys. Too bad you lost the war. That is 2 times in a row. tTe 3rd time we will not let you survive. Don't try us again my friend.

You really should read a history book before posting about history. The US did win that war, a year and half after ceasing hostillities north of the 49th. M'kay?

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Ah, burning down the White House was the highlight of the war of 1812 for you guys. Too bad you lost the war. That is 2 times in a row. tTe 3rd time we will not let you survive. Don't try us again my friend.

third time? Oh, you mean when we beat back the Fenian invasion, that was a loss? Secondly:

Combatants
United States of America United Kingdom
Strength
100,000 50,000
Casualties
12,000 5,000

"Many Canadians consider the War of 1812 to have been an American defeat. From their point of view, the American invasions of 1813 and 1814 were repulsed. Further supporting this point of view is that the British occupied some American territory at the end of the war; however, the Americans did not occupy any British territory." - from en.wikipedia.org...

1812 was a loss by a long shot by the United states. Enjoy not having that original White House or Constitution...

DE

In actual fact our population has more guns per capita than the US. We just choose not to shoot each other

So this is what happens when you can't back up your claims you resort to insults. The fact that you claim is false. Try again.

Actual, I will retort my last comment. we have virtually the same number of guns per capita, we just choose not to shoot each other.

Lukefj