House theft? Help me understand how this works.

We've all heard or read the reports. Bad guy assumes your identity from available information on the internet, forges your signature on a property transfer form, and makes a loan using "his" newly acquired house as collateral. How could I possible be on the hook to repay that loan? I realize that my credit rating would be in tatters after something like this, but beyond that how in the hell would a bank think you owed them the money?

I have heard of some bad cases of stolen identity in the past. At times the banks have done the right thing, sometimes they have not. It can take years to sort it out. Getting declared dead when you are not creates all kinds of dramas for the individual as well.

Keep fighting it best you can.

originally posted by: kwakakev
I have heard of some bad cases of stolen identity in the past. At times the banks have done the right thing, sometimes they have not. It can take years to sort it out. Getting declared dead when you are not creates all kinds of dramas for the individual as well.

Keep fighting it best you can.

The bad guy's image is on the bank's security cameras. How can the bank claim it was you who took out the loan?

What I don't get is how a person can break into your home and have the locks changed. When you call the police on the so called " Squatter " the cops say there's nothing they can do. The Courts then protect the Squatter from being evicted. Property laws completely ignored. Criminal laws like, breaking and entering are also ignored. In some cases the home owner is prosecuted for not paying the mortgage, which would leave the squatter homeless.

originally posted by: boomerdude
What I don't get is how a person can break into your home and have the locks changed. When you call the police on the so called " Squatter " the cops say there's nothing they can do. The Courts then protect the Squatter from being evicted. Property laws completely ignored. Criminal laws like, breaking and entering are also ignored. In some cases the home owner is prosecuted for not paying the mortgage, which would leave the squatter homeless.

Are you saying if I came home one day and found my locks changed and strangers inside the house, that I could not call the Cops and expect them to arrest the squatters ?

originally posted by: RKWWWW
We've all heard or read the reports. Bad guy assumes your identity from available information on the internet, forges your signature on a property transfer form, and makes a loan using "his" newly acquired house as collateral. How could I possible be on the hook to repay that loan? I realize that my credit rating would be in tatters after something like this, but beyond that how in the hell would a bank think you owed them the money?

I work in the mortgage business. What you are talking about is an elaborate form of mortgage fraud. Technically, you wouldn't be on the hook for the mortgage, but your credit would be trashed until the fraud is resolved (and maybe for years after because once it gets in the system it is hard to get rid of it).

Basically what happens it title is illegal transferred and then the person who is now on title then applies for a mortgage using the house as collateral. They obtain the mortgage and run off into the sunset. No one realizes what has happened until most likely the loan is not being paid or the actual owner of the property tries to do something legit and is told they don't own the property.

The reality though is that in most cases, the victim is an unknowing participant. You usually see these types of shenanigans with the elderly. Crooked grandson convinces elderly grandma with dementia to sign house over to them and then they start engaging in financial fraud using the house.

It is very difficult to transfer title to a home without the participation of the owner. For example, where I live, you have to do it in person and provide finger prints.

When banks are underwriting mortgages, they are doing all kinds of checks and so forth that the person applying is actually the owner of the property. What a lot of people don' t get is that most mortgage underwriting is about fraud prevention more than anything. THis is why getting a mortgage is so tedious. People don't realize how much fraud is in the residential real estate world.

Scams like these are why you have to get title insurance when obtaining a mortgage.

originally posted by: RKWWWW
We've all heard or read the reports. Bad guy assumes your identity from available information on the internet, forges your signature on a property transfer form, and makes a loan using "his" newly acquired house as collateral. How could I possible be on the hook to repay that loan? I realize that my credit rating would be in tatters after something like this, but beyond that how in the hell would a bank think you owed them the money?

I work in the mortgage business. What you are talking about is an elaborate form of mortgage fraud. Technically, you wouldn't be on the hook for the mortgage, but your credit would be trashed until the fraud is resolved (and maybe for years after because once it gets in the system it is hard to get rid of it).

Basically what happens it title is illegal transferred and then the person who is now on title then applies for a mortgage using the house as collateral. They obtain the mortgage and run off into the sunset. No one realizes what has happened until most likely the loan is not being paid or the actual owner of the property tries to do something legit and is told they don't own the property.

The reality though is that in most cases, the victim is an unknowing participant. You usually see these types of shenanigans with the elderly. Crooked grandson convinces elderly grandma with dementia to sign house over to them and then they start engaging in financial fraud using the house.

It is very difficult to transfer title to a home without the participation of the owner. For example, where I live, you have to do it in person and provide finger prints.

When banks are underwriting mortgages, they are doing all kinds of checks and so forth that the person applying is actually the owner of the property. What a lot of people don' t get is that most mortgage underwriting is about fraud prevention more than anything. THis is why getting a mortgage is so tedious. People don't realize how much fraud is in the residential real estate world.

Scams like these are why you have to get title insurance when obtaining a mortgage.

a reply to: Edumakated


Don't you send out an appraiser prior to making the loan? Collateral wise, we are talking a house here, not an auto.

originally posted by: RKWWWW

originally posted by: kwakakev
I have heard of some bad cases of stolen identity in the past. At times the banks have done the right thing, sometimes they have not. It can take years to sort it out. Getting declared dead when you are not creates all kinds of dramas for the individual as well.

Keep fighting it best you can.

The bad guy's image is on the bank's security cameras. How can the bank claim it was you who took out the loan?

Most people don't go into a bank to apply for a loan anymore. In most cases, they are also using false identities and other falsified documentation. Banks usually don't discover the fraud until the mortgage isn't being paid and they open an investigation.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: RKWWWW

originally posted by: kwakakev
I have heard of some bad cases of stolen identity in the past. At times the banks have done the right thing, sometimes they have not. It can take years to sort it out. Getting declared dead when you are not creates all kinds of dramas for the individual as well.

Keep fighting it best you can.

The bad guy's image is on the bank's security cameras. How can the bank claim it was you who took out the loan?

Most people don't go into a bank to apply for a loan anymore. In most cases, they are also using false identities and other falsified documentation. Banks usually don't discover the fraud until the mortgage isn't being paid and they open an investigation.

So one could just tell the bank to check their cameras, right?

originally posted by: RKWWWW
a reply to: Edumakated


Don't you send out an appraiser prior to making the loan? Collateral wise, we are talking a house here, not an auto.

The appraiser just values the house and reports owner of record (which will show the fraudster as owner). They aren't doing anything beyond that...

The title company is reporting on the "chain of title" and ownership history of the property. In most cases, banks require seasoning and suspicious of someone attempting to mortgage a home after title has been transferred and it wasn't a normal property sale. For example, Grandma "quit claims' title to Grandson. THen next month Grandson is trying to do a "cash out refinance" on the property. All kinds of red flags...

The reality though is most of this type of fraud is very elaborate and requires multiple people to be involved. It isn't amateur level stuff...

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: RKWWWW
a reply to: Edumakated


Don't you send out an appraiser prior to making the loan? Collateral wise, we are talking a house here, not an auto.

The appraiser just values the house and reports owner of record (which will show the fraudster as owner). They aren't doing anything beyond that...

The title company is reporting on the "chain of title" and ownership history of the property. In most cases, banks require seasoning and suspicious of someone attempting to mortgage a home after title has been transferred and it wasn't a normal property sale. For example, Grandma "quit claims' title to Grandson. THen next month Grandson is trying to do a "cash out refinance" on the property. All kinds of red flags...

The reality though is most of this type of fraud is very elaborate and requires multiple people to be involved. It isn't amateur level stuff...

Doesn't the appraiser go into the house?

a reply to: RKWWWW

The appraiser isn't making any judgement as to who owns the house and who is occupying it. The appraisers job is to simply state the value of the home.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: RKWWWW

The appraiser isn't making any judgement as to who owns the house and who is occupying it. The appraisers job is to simply state the value of the home.

That doesn't answer my question. Does the appraiser need access to the interior of the home to properly appraise it? Is that not SOP?

a reply to: RKWWWW

The bad guy's image is on the bank's security cameras. How can the bank claim it was you who took out the loan?

Get lots of copies of the image if you can, whatever other evidence will also help. Banks have depersonalized the loan making process and sold it off to the global markets. Could be some Wall Street equity company that actually owns the loan now, or a part of it? They have lots of systems in place to get their money back and some. All they see is your name on a loan agreement and want their money.

These types of frauds do happen. The legal system can be long and slow to work through it.

originally posted by: RKWWWW

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: RKWWWW

The appraiser isn't making any judgement as to who owns the house and who is occupying it. The appraisers job is to simply state the value of the home.

That doesn't answer my question. Does the appraiser need access to the interior of the home to properly appraise it? Is that not SOP?

No. In most cases, they do an interior / exterior inspection. However, sometimes they just do a drive by. Heck, nowadays, on about 50% of the conventional mortgages (fannie mae/freddie mac) an appraisal is not needed. THey use a computer model to assess value.

originally posted by: RKWWWW

originally posted by: kwakakev
I have heard of some bad cases of stolen identity in the past. At times the banks have done the right thing, sometimes they have not. It can take years to sort it out. Getting declared dead when you are not creates all kinds of dramas for the individual as well.

Keep fighting it best you can.

The bad guy's image is on the bank's security cameras. How can the bank claim it was you who took out the loan?

Idk whats up with yall cats but i'd escort that mofo out the house with a pistol shoved in his face.

he can call the cops i'll deal with them

a reply to: RKWWWW

Does the appraiser need access to the interior of the home to properly appraise it? Is that not SOP?

If there is dodgy stuff going on, not necessarily. They just need to sign off on a value. To appraise it correctly you do need to see the condition and access to the property will help for a more accurate valuation.

originally posted by: Edumakated

The reality though is that in most cases, the victim is an unknowing participant. You usually see these types of shenanigans with the elderly. Crooked grandson convinces elderly grandma with dementia to sign house over to them and then they start engaging in financial fraud using the house.

What is the bigger scam this or the companies that will protect your title for a fee... Home Title Lock is one that advertises all the time and will do this service for 15 bucks per month. Hell you can get a security system for 15 bucks per month...lol

I would think these cases are extremely rare unless as you said the owner was a participant in the scam, but these protection agencies act like it happens all the time and you have no protection other than them. As to changing locks...that typically happens when a house has not been lived in for a good while and someone moves in without the owners awareness, or the person actually rents there and just stops paying rent. Some states/cities have some really weird laws protecting renters that people take advantage of.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Edumakated

The reality though is that in most cases, the victim is an unknowing participant. You usually see these types of shenanigans with the elderly. Crooked grandson convinces elderly grandma with dementia to sign house over to them and then they start engaging in financial fraud using the house.

What is the bigger scam this or the companies that will protect your title for a fee... Home Title Lock is one that advertises all the time and will do this service for 15 bucks per month. Hell you can get a security system for 15 bucks per month...lol

I would think these is extremely rare unless as you said the owner was a participant in the scam, but these protection agencies act like it happens all the time and you have no protection other than them. As to changing locks...that typically happens when a house has not been lived in for a good while and someone moves in without the owners awareness, or the person actually rents there and just stops paying rent. Some states/cities have some really weird laws protecting renters that people take advantage of.

Yeah, I forgot to mention TitleLock is a scam and not necessary. I am not saying it doesn't occur, but it is practically impossible to transfer title without participation by the original title holder. Typically, if it does occur without your participation, your identity was stolen and all kinds of a sh*t is happening and you'd know about it. You can't just "quit claim" title from one person to another online. You almost always need to involve an attorney, notarize documents, etc.

The average person isn't going to have their home mysteriously taken under their noses...