Left , right. Why not move to the center?

originally posted by: THeGreaTZoiD

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: smurfy

You forgot to add that Trump is a stinky buttface with a stinky butt who is bad and sometimes says things, using words with verbs and stuff.

Okay, I agree with you, I apologise...I forgot about the stinky bits, and dammit, he sure does all the speaky things too, mostly lies, and lying about lying.

You're a foreigner, from and living in a foreign country.

So democrats will only allow you to vote 15 times for Biden.

said the party witch leader told people to vote twice....the dems never ask people to vote multiple time trump did...

He did not. He only said that if your mail in vote is not counted you should then go vote in person.

If you think about this is good advice for dems because the dems will be doing the most voting by mail.
there is real concern that dem votes wont be counted if they are by mail.

If your vote isn't counted what should you do about that?

a reply to: Xtrozero

How dare they live their lives the way they choose"

I hear this coming from both sides.

Nether side seems to want anyone but themselves to have real freedom.

originally posted by: FinallyAwake
Ahem, aren't you lefties meant to be in this thread answering questions sensibly?

I too (non American) would like to hear both sides of the story please, here's your chance.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not a lefty.
I'm not voting for biden.

originally posted by: THeGreaTZoiD

originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
How dare they live their lives the way they choose.

I think you have this on the wrong side. This is WHY we can't compromise with the left. They have no tolerance for letting people live their lives the way they choose, or to have their opinions the way they choose.

its ok to live your life the way you want as long as your choice dont make someone else life miserable...

No matter what a person does in their life they will make others miserable.

Climate change makes people miserable. Are you going to stop using electricity? Give up your car?
The way cities are built makes me miserable. It truly does. Should i expect city planers to change for me?

You can't truly be free if your worried about everyone else's feelings.
Caring about how others feel is important, don't get me wrong. But your personal feelings and freedom also matter.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

originally posted by: FinallyAwake
Ahem, aren't you lefties meant to be in this thread answering questions sensibly?

I too (non American) would like to hear both sides of the story please, here's your chance.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not a lefty.
I'm not voting for biden.

I didn't think you were, my comment was aimed at the other lefties in this thread that haven't replied to this thread OR the other one. Go figure.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Xtrozero

How dare they live their lives the way they choose"

I hear this coming from both sides.

Nether side seems to want anyone but themselves to have real freedom.

I don't care if they live as they choose ... right up until they make their life choices government policy. For example, they want government run healthcare, and in order to have that, I would not be allowed to keep my current plan. I would have to go along into the system with them. Nothing I've seen or heard or read anywhere has convinced me that this would be actually better than what I currently have.

If there were a way for them to have what they wanted without compelling me and many, many folks like me who don't want that system to let them have it ... then fine. But there currently isn't because they want the Federal government to do it.

And you'll find a lot of the things they want these days come with similar levels of Federal control which means those of us who don't want it would be compelled to come right along with.

They keep telling me it'll be so much better that they force me into something I don't want, but what they really want is what they think will gain advantage for themselves.

a reply to: EightAhoy

I say we get together and just choose any one of them.

So long as we all choose the same one.

taking power away from the two party system is the real goal here.

originally posted by: DarkestConspiracyMoon
a reply to: scraedtosleep

I agree with you up to your voting opinion. I feel like more change would come about if no one voted and WE took the power back.

Agreed. But that will never happen.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

originally posted by: DarkestConspiracyMoon
a reply to: scraedtosleep

I agree with you up to your voting opinion. I feel like more change would come about if no one voted and WE took the power back.

Agreed. But that will never happen.

No. It won't ever happen because the power players will all vote.

So long as even just a handful vote, the election would be held as valid. So Congress could vote and we'd have an election. The politicians would then be electing themselves.

You can't abstain your way to change in that manner. You have to wrest power back either through the system itself - take charge from the ground up through an existing party structure or build your own - or you do it by over-throwing the old. The danger with overthrowing the old is that successful revolutions very, very seldom lead to successful countries on the backside. Nearly all of them lead to failed dictatorial regimes of one sort or another.

The US was an incredibly lucky fluke, God inspired, some might say.

a reply to: ketsuko

The US was an incredibly lucky fluke, God inspired, some might say.

God inspired some might say? I think it's more than just some!

a reply to: Jay-morris

Sneer at it all you want, but you cannot deny that what I said previously is also true - overthrow of government very seldom ever leads to positive result.

In all likelihood this is because the people who do it only think to ending what they had with no forethought to what they will do once they achieve their goal. So they leave the doors open to whichever strongman and his cabal can pick up the pieces.

Why I gotta move?

I was on the left, and then you guys went to the outer rim.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

Nether side seems to want anyone but themselves to have real freedom.

What freedoms is the right trying to take away?

Some may suggest the freedom of choice, but even that comes down to very late term abortions and not wanting taxes to pay for it. I really can't think of anything else, can you? If we can find something I'm sure it will pale in comparison to what the left has been doing don't you think?

originally posted by: Lysergic
Why I gotta move?

I was on the left, and then you guys went to the outer rim.

That's the problem. Most people I personally know are reasonable and just want to hear ideas that might solve some of the problems everyone admits exists. But then morons on either end of the spectrum decided that it's just too damn fun to troll what they determined was their "opposition," namely people who had possible solutions they didn't like. And the more they trolled, and got trolled back, the more entrenched they got on the far fringes.

I didn't abandon the middle, the middle abandoned me because some obviously self-centered people have forgotten what empathy and understanding is and they get a visceral, addictive thrill out of antagonizing their chosen enemies. And the anonymity of social media only amplifies it.

But we still need the solutions. So any time you far left or right wingers get tired of shrieking at each other, please feel free to come back to the middle where helping people and solving problems is the focus, rather than trying to come up with clever insults for each other. Administrations come and go and none of them solve anything. It's us, in the middle, who have to figure it out for ourselves.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Possibly the realization that there is a living being inside the womb, and thus treating abortion as the life-ending decision it is rather than a form of birth control. That doesn't mean making it illegal, just not something you do because you were irresponsible in your drinks on a Saturday night.

a reply to: ketsuko

Something needs to change.

If not now when?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: EightAhoy

I say we get together and just choose any one of them.

So long as we all choose the same one.

taking power away from the two party system is the real goal here.

I haven't voted for a winning presidential candidate since the 80s; yet, I've voted in every election. I either vote the loser, only vote down-ballot, or as was the case in 1996 and 2016, did a write-in... whom of course, didn't win either. Able to research a lot easier with the internet, but in years past, it wasn't unusual for me to visit the public library multiple times to research news stories, platform, debate answers, etc. I take my voting privilege quite seriously.

Wanna know who isn't gonna win? Likely the person I vote for.

Will never, ever vote for a Democrat. Cost is too high to my personal finances and standard of living. Thank you Affordable Care Act, Obama, Biden, and Hillary.

Oh, and I'm voting Trump in 2020. Come back Nov 4 to see if my losing streak continues.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: panoz77

No.

You're still talking about giving up control of large parts of an economy to the government and being taxed out the nose accordingly to pay for it.

We have a couple such systems already here in the US - USPS and the public education system. Can you honestly and with a straight face tell me they are the very pinnacle of efficiency and performance in doing what they are supposed to do? Can you tell me they constantly run within or even under budget in getting their job done? Are they even close?

If not, then why on earth should compromise any more by giving up more sectors of our economy to total government control? It seems to me like this would be a clear downgrade. We have some cities where up to 50% or more of the student body graduates functionally illiterate, and the USPS is a giant, money sucking black hole that has chronic problems in its operations.

It was a joke regarding "compromising".

a reply to: scraedtosleep

There are a lot of parallels between now and the run up to the Civil War. That doesn't mean it's where we are heading, but we are in dangerous times.

It would seem that the Left, Right paradigm of politics is universal.
Views fluctuate depending on economic circumstances.
If you build something it is natural to want to hang on to it.
If you do not, it is natural, yet evil, to misattribute the reasons for your decrepitude.

Those who have, are clearly afraid.
of those who do not have.

Conservatism, and protection of the self and similar (family, friends, folk) becomes appropriate when times are tough.
In times of plenty the luxury of liberalism, and the welcome of the 'other' seems like a good idea.
I believe both views have value if applied in the appropriate context.

This tension between 'left' and 'right' is universal and timeless.
At the moment I'm not a centrist, it is not appropriate.

I would choose those in my immediate vicinity, that share my world views and shared destiny.
I would discriminate against those, whose views and stated intention, run counter to short and long term continuity of the values I believe in.

Mandated responsibility for some amorphous group of strangers is coercion.
A lack of charity is selfish.

Only those who believe they know better become Politicians.
I don't care much for any of them.

They seem more like the barking dogs of a neighbour who has no P's and Qs.
Than leaders.