Energy firm says its nuclear-waste fueled diamond batteries could last thousands of years

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: 727Sky

A longer lasting battery would be a true game changer.

A longer lasting, Hi capacity battery coupled with solar would be wonderful.

The drawback is the current generated is VERY low. Yet if it was carefully engineered these could mostly recharge a Lithium-ion cell phone battery overnight if the phone was turned off.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

One gram of unprocessed nuclear waste. They aren't using straight nuclear waste. They're purifying graphite, and turning it into carbon-14 diamonds that are then coated in a layer of carbon-12 diamond. The carbon-12 coating contains the radioactive material, and shields it.

So how does the power get out from the fully encased material?

a reply to: LanceCorvette

The interaction between the waste material and the "diamond" material creates an electrical current.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
I drove a Pinto in High School. NOTHING scares me.




a reply to: dragonridr

1979 model?

a reply to: Nickn3

That would be a dream for me. I would finally finally! be able to work from the middle of the woods.

Well so long as I have some internet extenders or elons starlink is up and running for us.

originally posted by: LanceCorvette

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

One gram of unprocessed nuclear waste. They aren't using straight nuclear waste. They're purifying graphite, and turning it into carbon-14 diamonds that are then coated in a layer of carbon-12 diamond. The carbon-12 coating contains the radioactive material, and shields it.

So how does the power get out from the fully encased material?

To elaborate a little more on what Zaphod wrote:

Carbon-14 decays by a process called "Beta-decay". That's when a Neutron in the nucleus spontaneously disintegrates into a Proton, an Electron, and a Neutrino with the release of kinetic energy. The kinetic energy of the decay causes the Neutrino and Electron (also known as a Beta particle) to depart the nucleus where the Neutron used to be, at high speed. The Proton, which carries a positive charge, remains captured in the nucleus. When the Beta particle flies away from the nucleus, the positive charge of the nucleus and the negative charge of the Beta particle attract each other and that slows the departure speed of the Beta particle until it eventually stops and then is immediately drawn back in the direction of the nucleus. The Neutrino carries no charge so it just continues on its merry way across the universe. The Beta particle cannot recombine with the Proton to make a Neutron again, because the Neutrino is gone, so the Beta particle ends up as an Electron captured in the outer shell of the resulting atom. When that Beta particle falls back to the atom that emitted it, that is an electrical current. The Diamond shell made of Carbon-12 surrounding the inner kernel of Carbon-14 is in the form of a semiconductor, which is capable of rectifying that current and doing useful electrical work with it. The net result is that the Carbon-14 atom has gained one more Proton and one more Electron, so it becomes Nitrogen-14, which is both stable as an isotope and chemically inert.

The Beta particles that come off from Carbon-14 decay have a mean energy of about 50 Kev, so they only travel about 1/10th of a mm during this whole process. In other words, they never make it outside the Carbon-12 diamond shell. There is also no penetrating radiation (like Gamma or X-ray) released in Carbon14 decay, which is why the manufacturers say that there is no radiation danger from this technology.

a reply to: lakenheath24

Don't mind a pint of Tribute but generally speaking I'm a Bitter man......and coming from the North East I like my beer cold!
None of that lukewarm piss water those Southerners drink.
Saying that, its some ice cold Frosty Jacks tonight.....last of the big spenders!

Its about time we found some practical applications for nuclear instead of holding the world to ransom for fear of a nuclear holocaust or ecological disaster.

a reply to: dragonridr

KRUSTY.

I some times think the only reason they start any of these scientific projects is so that they can think up some catchy acronym.
The catchier the acronym then more research funding allocated.

at the start of the week the russens had a news story of one they have made!

if you compres and heat radiation waste.
to make a dimond a pressure of 5 GPa at 1500 °C
or 323.7 ton-force square inch
you will make it a Lot more powerfull!
dont do to much at the same time, it may blow up.

a reply to: 1947boomer

Bedlam explained as “continuous low current electricity” which sounds good until you ask for useful electricity that we use. Then power transformers, voltage regulators, FETs, etc., come into play. They all waste heat.

Real world applications will be a ways off (if ever seen. Especially if room temperature superconductors ever arrive because you just circulate electricity until needed with no waste heat).

Cool stuff to think about but I am not holding my breath (Bedlam said the above when I posted the same idea over 5 years ago! Miss you, Tom!)

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

One gram of unprocessed nuclear waste. They aren't using straight nuclear waste. They're purifying graphite, and turning it into carbon-14 diamonds that are then coated in a layer of carbon-12 diamond. The carbon-12 coating contains the radioactive material, and shields it.

^^^^ This! ^^^^

Deny ignorance!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Cool stuff to think about but I am not holding my breath (Bedlam said the above when I posted the same idea over 5 years ago! Miss you, Tom!)

Whatever happened to Bedlam?

I used to love bantering with him as he was one of the very few members here that also knew "how the sausage is made".

He would also talk about things are lot more freely than I do, now - or even then for that matter.

I used to be more open here, but I got a very hard hand slap a few years ago along with a written warning from the "powers that be" - or think they be - about my "activity" on a public message board...lol.

That made me laugh. What were they going to do with my written warning? I have always been an independent contractor - never an employee.

I guess they could have locked it in a classified safe somewhere until such time as it was needed again?

They didn't give a copy to me, I can tell you that.

You can't make this sh#t up!

a reply to: Riffrafter

He was given the choice to leave here or stay in “jail” (he posted an idea that TPTB were not happy with from back then. And it was just science! So, had to stop posting here or be in a digital hole.... he stopped posting on any site. Yeah, one smart individual. And funny. And knew/knows some shiz that has only been hinted at. And posted an ‘idea’ that is possible as a real ATS weapon in the real world).

Just from thinking out loud!

He kept me grounded. I would (still do!) post some new discovery and ponder what it means. And then Bedlam would remind me that a great scientific idea takes time to become part of the real world (my favorite was mining the moon by robots!).

Shame on TPTB to force a great mind from here! I think we all miss him!

Like I said, we had this beta radiation battery talk before. And wonder if there is a real world application.

I am way more worried that they will not allow it because we won't need oil or the barely usable alternative energy that forces Cali to turn the lights off in the heat of Summer.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: carewemust

The amount of radiation would be less than found in the human body. There wouldn't be a hazmat spill requiring cleanup.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: 727Sky

What they are doing is simple use x-ray and gamma to supply power. A typical solar cell can do that problem is the shielding that it would require to make it safe for consumers. this would be a great way to contaminate everything without the nuclear fallout. I think I will pass and avoid dying of radiation poisoning.

X-rays are way bad if you get steady doses of them.

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: Riffrafter

He was given the choice to leave here or stay in “jail” (he posted an idea that TPTB were not happy with from back then. And it was just science! So, had to stop posting here or be in a digital hole.... he stopped posting on any site. Yeah, one smart individual. And funny. And knew/knows some shiz that has only been hinted at. And posted an ‘idea’ that is possible as a real ATS weapon in the real world).

Just from thinking out loud!

He kept me grounded. I would (still do!) post some new discovery and ponder what it means. And then Bedlam would remind me that a great scientific idea takes time to become part of the real world (my favorite was mining the moon by robots!).

Shame on TPTB to force a great mind from here! I think we all miss him!

Like I said, we had this beta radiation battery talk before. And wonder if there is a real world application.

That guys sounds pretty cool. Sad I don't remember that one and I am big on the Science ones where the liars come out to tell us we are dumb for daring to think outside of "their understanding of science". Thanks for sharing.

"Atomic batteries to power, turbines to speed"

originally posted by: Justoneman
That guys sounds pretty cool. Sad I don't remember that one and I am big on the Science ones where the liars come out to tell us we are dumb for daring to think outside of "their understanding of science". Thanks for sharing.

Bedlam knows science, and how to apply it, aka engineering. The problem with most people's "understanding of science" is it's not that good, but Bedlam's understanding of the science was very good, and how to apply it also very good, so when he said what was possible and what was far fetched, those statements carried a lot of weight for anyone with the aptitude to recognize the value and experience of the source.

Not everyone believed what he said though, especially if it destroyed some personal fantasy someone had that wasn't grounded very well in science. A thread where I remember that happening was about some mind control patents which were not well grounded in science and Bedlam recognized that, but some non-technical people still wanted to believe some of the nonsense in the patents which Bedlam debunked.

I think Thunderf00t isn't quite as savvy as Bedlam technically, but still he's pretty savvy. Some of his calculations are "shoot from the hip" but he gives you his sources so you can do the calculations yourself and substitute better numbers if you can find them. So maybe bedlam isn't posting any more to comment on these batteries, but you have a close alternative boffin if you want to check out this video posted earlier in the thread talking about the nuclear batteries from nuclear waste:

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: 727Sky

thunderf00t was not a fan

A few points from the video if you don't have time to watch it.

originally posted by: tkwasny
The drawback is the current generated is VERY low.

Yes, that's one of the points in the video about photovoltaics, the current is very small and the batteries would be expensive even to generate very small currents. So they may have limited applications with very low power needs where high cost can be tolerated, but that doesn't necessarily lead to them being suitable for general use.

Yet if it was carefully engineered these could mostly recharge a Lithium-ion cell phone battery overnight if the phone was turned off.

At about 22m in the video, Thunderfoot references an article saying a battery with 1g of carbon-14 would deliver 15 joules a day ( and that if that 1g was ingested you'd get a fatal dose of radiation after about 20 days). To charge a mobile phone battery with 30,000 joules in it would take 30000J/15J/day = 2000 days or over 5 years to charge the mobile phone battery.

At 23 minutes he points out that at current market prices for Carbon-14, 1 gram would run about $2,000,000, which would charge a mobile phone battery in 5-6 years.
If you wanted a battery powerful enough to run the mobile phone at 0.2 W or charge it overnight...

Nickel-63 half-life is 100 years, and Carbon-14 half life is ~5700 years, so to get the same output from Carbon-14 the battery would need to be over 600kg (>1320 lbs), and 600 kg of carbon 14 would cost over $1,000,000,000,000 so even if you came up with the engineering to do it, that ain't cheap and you might not like toting a 1320 lb battery around to power your mobile phone.

Even if those are just estimates and they are somewhat off, you have to admit the numbers are so far off that some minor adjustments won't make it practical for charging mobile phones.

So weight is a problem, and cost, for applications like mobile phones.

Regarding safety, at about 15 minutes he claims that the nuclear radiation would change the diamond into graphite within a year. I'm not sure about that, but even if he's off on that, all the other problems are substantial. And if he's right about that, all the claims about diamond become worthless if the diamond is degraded into graphite by effects of the radiation.

A bigger problem he says might be that C-14 decays into Nitrogen which can be a problem in several respects, which according to the promoters won't be a serious problem until after several hundred years. Even if that time estimate is correct, if these batteries are ticking time bombs that will lose their structure after a few centuries and release amounts of C-14 which could be lethal if ingested, it may be better to leave the nuclear waste in the ground where it's not as likely to poison people after a few centuries as these batteries might do if they were ever mass produced, though the current economics suggest that won't happen anytime soon. With a C-14 half-life of 5700 years, saying the batteries won't have serious problems for a few centuries seems inadequate. Can't you hear our descendants in a few centuries asking "didn't those folks think about what would happen to these atomic batteries after a few centuries when they made them?" The C-14 will still be potentially hazardous for thousands of years after that.

The Nickel-63 atomic battery is not so bad, its half-life is only ~100 years, so it won't remain a hazard nearly as long as C-14.

Compact nuclear reactors will be the future of power generation, but this doesn't seem like that. They are getting the energy from the radioactive decay but not actually creating any nuclear reaction. It could be very useful for lower power long term applications though.

Hold up, so I can have an electric car that would never need to be recharged? EVER! I think this could be a great thing, but then again It would probably cost too much for any normal person to buy.