Tom Bombadil

a reply to: chelsdh

And why did he seem to not care about getting involved in the conflict? It wasn't cowardice.

The loci means location. He had a specific territory.
All that stuff happening "out there" was not his job.

originally posted by: chelsdh
a reply to: Gandalf77

Are you sure you don't want to bring the staff down and claim the final say, Gandalf

?

Ha! I’ll confess I do indeed carry a staff (in fact, I collect them) from time to time—typically when walking in the woods.

A couple of things I would add, though:

1. It’s absolutely delightful to find this discussion on ATS. It’s been years since I read the Silmarillion, so I had forgotten the origins of Gothmog.

2. While consulting my wizard’s library, I came across another interesting tidbit about Tom Bombadil:
In “The Adventures of Tom Bombadil” (Tolkien, 1962), the second poem talks about how Tom had taken a trip downriver to visit his friend, Farmer Maggot, who evidently warns him that the four hobbits are traveling unprotected and will need some assistance. (Summarized from “Master of Middle Earth: The Fiction of J.R.R. Tolkien” by Paul H. Kocher, p. 216)

Thanks for starting this thread OP! Made my day.

a reply to: MindBodySpiritComplex

You sound like a pleasant person then!

a reply to: Gandalf77

I am so glad you have enjoyed the discussion! I haven't gotten to discuss this topic in YEARS and I forgot how fun it is.
I found this theories of Tom Bombadil. It has some very interesting ideas.
I often wish we could find out from the creators of such worlds every last detail. But, the headcanon that we come up with is very fun, and we can sort of pick and choose the theories we prefer, which is fun!

a reply to: Maxatoria

I read a similar theory about the link between him and music.
It did start as a bed time story I believe, but it clearly evolved.

As did one of my favorite books Watership Down. I am sure my kids wish I would create such fantastic bedtime stories!

Uncanny.

After years of me being a bit of a lone Tolkein fan in my house - my older brother bought me a copy of Lord Of The Rings donkeys years ago which I thoroughly enjoyed - I finally convinced my wife and my 9 year old Grandson to watch the first of The Hobbit films on Monday and we watched the next two on Tuesday and Wednesday.
They are now hooked and we watched The Fellowship of The Ring today and plan to watch The Two Towers tomorrow.

I was telling them about some of the differences between the books and the films and obviously included the absence of Tom Bombadil in the movies.
I tried to explain who Tom Bombadil was and to be honest I found myself struggling: Just who was he, what did he do and where did he come from?
I found myself Googling him and using that as a point of reference.

Both of them now want to read the books and rather than dig out my dog eared copies I have ordered new ones which I fully intend to re-read as well.

I'm no Tolkein expert but I've thoroughly enjoyed escaping into his world over those far too many years that have passed since my brother introduced me to it.

a reply to: chelsdh

Wow. Thanks for the link. That's a great site. Fun to read the different theories. All these years, I had no idea!
Just another testament, in my mind, to the rich depths of his writing.

a reply to: Tucket

Also, that the power to defy the enemy is not within him.

Cause Tom would just tire of the ring , forget what it was , and cast it aside .

a reply to: chelsdh

nice to see an interesting thread on ATS for once in a long time...

Tom is a character i know very little about, though one day i plan on reading his book..

i don't remember IF he was mentioned by name specifically in The Silmarillion... thats a hard book to read, unless you've read the KJB.. lol

Though IF you can actually get through, some of the stories are amazing!

S&F

a reply to: Akragon

thats a hard book to read

Yeah , one has to be really interested in the history of Middle Earth .
I read it through a few times and found each time that I had overlooked very interesting parts.

Bombadil is mentioned in the last parts , only in respect to the short part he played .

a reply to: Gandalf77

It’s been years since I read the Silmarillion, so I had forgotten the origins of Gothmog.

IF i remember correctly Gothmog was a Maia, same species as Gandalf and the Wizards before they came to middle earth... but they were turned evil by the influence of Morgoth

a reply to: Akragon

wait... I devoured the hobbit and the three LOR books in hospital, when I was 13 and now you tell me, 20 years later, that I missed out on a whole book with unfinished parts and links to all these stories, one day before my vacation ends?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Gandalf77

It’s been years since I read the Silmarillion, so I had forgotten the origins of Gothmog.

IF i remember correctly Gothmog was a Maia, same species as Gandalf and the Wizards before they came to middle earth... but they were turned evil by the influence of Morgoth

Balrogs were in Melkor's part of the song of the Valar. (if I remember correctly)

Does anyone know or remember the origins of the Orcs ?
Were they part of the song ?

a reply to: chelsdh

Tolkien "supposedly" told someone that the tales of Middle Earth were based on true history.

No.
Not based on.
Wrote from the horrors of WW I

a reply to: Gothmog

Does anyone know or remember the origins of the Orcs ?
Were they part of the song ?

Not sure but I think they are captured elves turned into orc by Sauron?

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain
a reply to: Akragon

wait... I devoured the hobbit and the three LOR books in hospital, when I was 13 and now you tell me, 20 years later, that I missed out on a whole book with unfinished parts and links to all these stories, one day before my vacation ends?

No .
The Silmarillion was supposed to be THE BOOK .
However , Tolkien decided to centralize the novel(s) , and laid aside The Silmarillion .
He asked his son to finish it for him. and he did much later.

a reply to: Gothmog

I need to get a copy ASAP, thank you for the explanation.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain
a reply to: Akragon

wait... I devoured the hobbit and the three LOR books in hospital, when I was 13 and now you tell me, 20 years later, that I missed out on a whole book with unfinished parts and links to all these stories, one day before my vacation ends?

No .
The Silmarillion was supposed to be THE BOOK .
However , Tolkien decided to centralize the novel(s) , and laid aside The Silmarillion .
He asked his son to finish it for him. and he did much later.

And indeed if you want more background information on the creative processes behind Middle Earth, there's always the The History of Middle-Earth:

The History of Middle-earth is a 12-volume series of books published between 1983 and 1996 that collect and analyse material relating to the fiction of J. R. R. Tolkien, compiled and edited by his son, Christopher Tolkien. The series shows the development over time of Tolkien's conception of Middle-earth as a fictional place with its own peoples, languages, and history, from his earliest notions of a "mythology for England" through to the development of the stories that make up The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings. It is not a "history of Middle-earth" in the sense of being a chronicle of events in Middle-earth written from an in-universe perspective; it is instead an out-of-universe history of Tolkien's creative process. In 2000–01, the twelve volumes were republished in three limited edition omnibus volumes. Non-deluxe editions of the three volumes were published in 2002.[1]

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Gandalf77

It’s been years since I read the Silmarillion, so I had forgotten the origins of Gothmog.

IF i remember correctly Gothmog was a Maia, same species as Gandalf and the Wizards before they came to middle earth... but they were turned evil by the influence of Morgoth

Balrogs were in Melkor's part of the song of the Valar. (if I remember correctly)

Does anyone know or remember the origins of the Orcs ?
Were they part of the song ?

“Within the deepest Pits of Utumno, in the First Age of Stars, it is said that Melkor committed his greatest blasphemy. For in that time he captured many of the newly risen race of Elves and took them to his dungeons, and with hideous acts of torture he made ruined and terrible forms of life. From these he bred a Goblin race of slaves who were as loathsome as Elves were fair. These were the Orcs...”
(Day, p.198)

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain
a reply to: Akragon

wait... I devoured the hobbit and the three LOR books in hospital, when I was 13 and now you tell me, 20 years later, that I missed out on a whole book with unfinished parts and links to all these stories, one day before my vacation ends?

Yep... The Silmarillion is pretty much "the bible" of middle earth... it has a "Genesis" which begins with the song of the most holy god Eru Iluvatar... and tons of short stories which more or less tie together all the information in the hobbit and LOTR books... theres brief mentions of a lot of the characters in the movies but most won't even notice them

After i read it i started noticing mentions of these characters when i watch the movies... in the hobbit: the unexpected journey... when Radagast comes rolling in to the party through the trees, he mentions the spiders, and says "some sort of spawn of Ungoliant... Refering to the mother of all spiders... didn't know that until i read the silmarillion... i always thought he said "spawn of mongolians"... and i was like WTF do mongolians have to do with anything in this story?!?!

Makes sense when you know who ungoliant actually is... LOL