Christian Deconversion

So exactly what is Christian deconversion? Well it is somewhat a new word when speaking about a specific religion and in this thread it is about Christianity. So I looked on the internet for definitions of this new term (I thought it was a new term....I was wrong) basically it means ....

deconversion(Noun)

The loss of faith in a given religion and return to a previously held religion or non-religion (typically atheism, agnosticism, or rationalism).

My definition is: apostasy .... from a Christian outlook...

So I have been watching these YouTube videos of people "Coming Out" and talking how they decided to no longer believe in their Christian beliefs and renouncing their Christian beliefs..... man..... I saw videos dating back eight years. I was not aware this "fad" was ongoing for so long...

Numerous pastors, deacons, missionairies, priest, seminary teachers, everyday ole Christians, around the world, renouncing their Christian faith. You could have knocked me over with a feather but I listened. I wanted to know why and they explained it.... very clear ..... no reason to question them further. They feel free and more enlightened.

They changed their minds about their faith and it is OK to do this. They changed and I too have changed.......

I understand them........ They no longer believe in a loving God according to the Christian faith. Who can argue this point?

I can.....but I too have changed..... not my faith in God but in most people. I see people coming down off of the fence and finally picking a side. Bravo .... and I really mean it. It does not concern me, it concerns someone who has finally made a decision. Standing up for who they think they really are. No longer hiding but coming out and telling their truth sometimes violently bit still their truth. They have PROOF. They can show you the lies in the Christian faith. These lies are all in one book..... the bible.

According to their new beliefs, the bible is full of errors and myths. Since they no longer believe, they feel better, more emmotionally stable than ever before. They see the world in a new light.

And I say ..... good for them. At least they have the "Balls" to take a side and not hide anymore. Everyone should show their true self and stop hiding. I do not believe in their new beliefs but I respect them .......now. Why?

So where have I changed?

I no longer "force feed" Christian beliefs onto anyone..... (yeah!!!)

I no longer judge anyone based on their religious beliefs...

I preach the Gospel when someone shows interest or ask about it.

I no longer support apologetics - I no longer defend the faith. Today there is no longer the need too....with TV, radio, satellites, and the internet everyone around the world has heard of God in some form. The seed is planted....

It is clear today that there is a separation, a division of people who were Christian but no longer are. Who add to those who have renounced their Christian faith and growing everyday and I agree with them, either you believe or you don't (big change for me).

As a whole (talking of Christian faith) we have had enough time to grow up and become Christian adults and not children.... many Christian often say they are God's children and some stay in that "condition" as a child with little to no responsibility within the spiritual world....worlds.... and never grow up spiritually.

IMO if by now you are over 50 and you still doubt your faith..... I think that is a sign for you. Either a wake up call or one of deceit. You choose because it is all about you....right?

It's not about a book..... it is about your relationship with God.

Has your spirit revealed this to you?

Or maybe another spirit?

Do you have a relationship with God?

Probably the greatest modern day new testament theologian, Bart Ehrman, once known for his faith and the many books he wrote is now a confessed and active atheist, pushing his new atheist agenda as hard, maybe harder than the gospel.

Find it amazing that Mr Ehrman, a once professed believer is now heralded for his non belief and makes a very good living selling his books.
"Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and is a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity."
www.bartdehrman.com...

Funny, when I read Ehrmans atheist conversion, its all based on the bible, the fact the bible is not perfect, Ehrman found faults in the bible and rather than accept human error in a book written by man, Ehrman discounted all christianity.

As I understand, Ehrmans faith was not in Jesus but a book, his faith was intellectual, taught, maybe even forced.

as I see it, its mostly not deconversion, its people who believe they are christian because thats what they are taught, waking up and thinking about their real beliefs, stopping to pretend they are christian, people leaving what they didnt believe anyway
Thats not a bad thing

Very Interesting..... and I think I agree. I say I think ... because I am not sure if you are baiting me...

Doesn't it say in the last days many will fall away from the faith and even some the "elect" will fall away?

Israel and UAE peace deal.... peace and security...

I wrote a thread a few moons ago about not all people on this planet are God's children. Not everyone on this planet believes in a God. It was a bit zealous...but filled with honest intentions through the spirit.

As I have often stated in many of my quotes: Many hide behind Christianity and are not Christians. They never were. They have an agenda.... to destroy the church from within....

We truly live in the last days.....


a reply to: Raggedyman

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Luke 8:4-15

While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.” When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”

His disciples asked him what this parable meant. He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, “ ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’ “

This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop."

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Not baiting, just my opinion at the present
Far to many Christians claim Christianity and they show no fruit of the Holy Spirit
Better they accept it’s just a title not a lifestyle, not sure what motivates that attitude

This still sounds like the same condescension to be expected from any of the abrahamic faiths.

a reply to: DeathSlayer
Sometime in the 80's, there was a guy who was hired by Christian parents to abduct their children from cults like the Moonies and de-convert them back to Christianity. Can't remember his name but he was somewhat successful. He walked a very fine line legally of course, but did it for quite sometime. This was what I was thinking about when I clicked on your thread. Oops.

According to their new beliefs, the bible is full of errors and myths. Since they no longer believe, they feel better, more emmotionally stable than ever before. They see the world in a new light.

This is true, but it is irrelevant. Religion is about faith, not facts.

I no longer "force feed" Christian beliefs onto anyone..... (yeah!!!)
I no longer judge anyone based on their religious beliefs...
I preach the Gospel when someone shows interest or ask about it.
I no longer support apologetics - I no longer defend the faith. Today there is no longer the need too....with TV, radio, satellites, and the internet everyone around the world has heard of God in some form. The seed is planted....

Sounds reasonable to me. Rev. 22:11

It is clear today that there is a separation, a division of people who were Christian but no longer are. Who add to those who have renounced their Christian faith and growing everyday and I agree with them, either you believe or you don't (big change for me).

Also reasonable.

Good Luck.

Damn..... I got the "Hibbie Jibbies" my skin was tingling as I read your statement.

You sure sound like a real Christian to me.....

You seem to know more than a CHURCH Christian and I know you are not one.

And you know what??? .... you know more about the bible than most self proclaimed Christians.

One day I thought I had the "calling" to preach but I could not walk the walk...too weak....

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Not baiting, just my opinion at the present
Far to many Christians claim Christianity and they show no fruit of the Holy Spirit
Better they accept it’s just a title not a lifestyle, not sure what motivates that attitude

a reply to: Raggedyman

Funny, when I read Ehrmans atheist conversion, its all based on the bible, the fact the bible is not perfect, Ehrman found faults in the bible and rather than accept human error in a book written by man, Ehrman discounted all christianity.

The bible is considered the very core of Christianity by most (No bible, no Christianity). Some consider it to be inerrant, the perfect word of God, so it should come as no surprise that when the book is shown to be full of errors, contradictions, and myth that some would consider that sufficient evidence that their faith has been misplaced.

Isn't this the reason the bible itself says in at least 3 different places "the just shall live by faith"? Not everyone understands or is able to walk by faith alone, as you have learned to do.

Part of the issue is that christiandom makes it very easy to be a member of the church - that being the visible church.

Historically, in many (perhaps most) times and places outside of Constantinian christendom, it has been risky at best to confess membership in the church and allegiance to Jesus Christ. Within christendom it has, for most of the last couple of millennia, been easy, even been the "in thing" to do. Whereas in many places being a Christian meant loss of prestige and social position, within christendom it could be the cementing of it. So people came into the church without counting the cost, just following the crowd, using it to build their own social standing and be part of an "in" crowd.

It's no surprise that as the social and moral context changes they drift (or run) away. It is no longer useful. Many of these were tares sown in the field of the Master.
:

a reply to: DeathSlayer
I've gone through this and come out again. I became an atheist at the age of 17, and a Christian at the age of 20. I've done threads on both experiences. Istill remember that sense of "liberation" from the first time round.

In the language of John's gospel, there's a very important difference between believing IN (a person) and believing THAT (something is true). I think this difference is key to the whole question.

Believing "IN" is the crucial point. Believing "THAT" is only part of the process that gets people towards believing "IN". It is perhaps unfortunate that the historic church has tended to shift the emphasis towards believing "THAT", which is easier to test. I think the root of much apostacy, including the people on your list, is that people trip over some aspect of the believing "THAT", and don't make the hard choice of continuing to believe "IN", regardless.

Sceptics are fond of quoting Tennyson's

"There lives more faith in honest doubt,
Believe me, than in half the creeds."

But they ignore the lines immediately follwoing;

"He fought his doubts and gather'd strength,
He would not make his judgment blind,
He faced the spectres of the mind
And laid them: thus he came at length
To find a stronger faith his own;"

They don't have to stop at the disbelief stage. There is a way through.

a reply to: Klassified

Sometime in the 80's, there was a guy who was hired by Christian parents to abduct their children from cults like the Moonies and de-convert them back to Christianity.

Ted Patrick

He was in my town '73,'74.

Results of his work did not look good. Looked like trauma and shock.

a reply to: Klassified

Long before the bible was ever gathered, long before the council of Carthage canonised the written word christianity existed and grew

We are called to have faith in spite of intellect
Nothing regarding Christianity is logical and it’s not a slight on a person who doesn’t believe in Christianity, the bible or more reasonable logic, I do agree klass

And the bible, it never calls anyone to have faith in the book itself, it only points to Jesus. Bart Ehrman is a wise and great student of theology but unfortunately, seems to have placed his faith in a book.

Though I agree mostly with your comments klass, I certainly wouldn’t use the words “full of errors and contradictions”. As I can see, they are few and far between and mostly it’s a very misunderstood book that teaches Gods love for His creation

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Klassified

Sometime in the 80's, there was a guy who was hired by Christian parents to abduct their children from cults like the Moonies and de-convert them back to Christianity.

Ted Patrick

He was in my town '73,'74.

Results of his work did not look good. Looked like trauma and shock.

I believe that's him. I didn't know he was doing it as far back as the mid-70's, but I always wondered about the aftermath of his "de-conversions". Scary stuff playing with peoples minds.

a reply to: Klassified

There are times when interventions are appropriate.
And times when not appropriate.

If parents feels threatened that their worldview is being questioned by their teenager's natural human questioning of authority, then the parents should examine their own beliefs, rather than hire someone to tear the teen's root of questioning out.

And the pseudo-Christian cult active at the time didn't really outlast the Apostle of the cult. Kind of like:
Acts 5:

33When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. 34But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

a reply to: Klassified
a reply to: pthena


And Scientology, koreshians, People’s Temple and Jonestown, heavens gate come to mind. Results of their work don’t look good either

What kind of a caring parent would do nothing?
Simple question, not justifying sending in a Ted Patrick, but at least I can understand the reasoning

Freewill and all that I guess...

Do or don’t do, it’s wrong?

a reply to: pthena
In the cases I read, I understand the parents reasoning, especially when their kids ended up in the Moonies camp. I talked with and witnessed to the Moonies back in the day. All I can say is WOW. They were definitely victims of one of the worst cults around...imo.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Do or don’t do, it’s wrong?

That's why I wrote "There are times when interventions are appropriate"

I couldn't get in to intervene in The Mount Carmel incident, Clint van Zandt figured he knew it all with his profile and all.

There is a big difference between a child at home questioning and a child taken to some remote location and cut off from any outside communication.

The kids I saw at one of Tony Alamo's compounds were already "at risk" with no parents out there caring about them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Raggedyman

And Scientology, koreshians, People’s Temple and Jonestown, heavens gate come to mind. Results of their work don’t look good either.

And that's putting it mildly.

What kind of a caring parent would do nothing? Simple question, not justifying sending in a Ted Patrick, but at least I can understand the reasoning.

I think Ted's intentions were good, as were the intentions of the parents who hired him. These young people were under a spell and taken advantage of in most cases, not just exercising their free will. Were Ted's methods ethical or moral? I'm sure we could debate that ad infinitum, but what I do know is that he risked his life to free a lot of people from some unsavory characters whatever my concerns about his de-conversions.

a reply to: DeathSlayerI preach the Gospel when someone shows interest or ask about it.

Can you tell me this gospel you preach please?