Did Flu Shots Cause the COVID 19 Pandemic?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ChiefD

The article makes no mention of flu. Which makes sense, since influenza is not a coronavirus.

I heard on the news today that those who get regular flu vaccines are more immune to COVID-19 and if they get it, may get a milder version of it.

I can find no mention of such a claim. Perhaps you misunderstood the point. If you do catch the flu, it can mess up your lungs. If you then catch COVID-19, that would be bad. COVID-19 with a comorbidity factor is more dangerous.

Are you willing to provide a clear, unabridged and open disclaimer about your stance on COVID-19.

I'm happy to show you mine if you show me yours, so to speak. However, I don't actually have to whip it out to illustrate my stance - I've started a number of threads on this subject that explore multiple ways of thinking about and doing some analysis of this situation. A solid chunk of that is organic and pulling together data, on my own, in Excel. Since I work with data analytics frequently, this is something I'm comfortable with.

I feel as though the readership should be aware of your sheep-like behavior on this subject - you have bought the "official narrative".

That said, I'm tired of rowing with you. It's not fun and honestly it's not challenging. Why not go open kimono so people can realize you aren't seeking alternative perspectives, fully support the "official narrative" and frankly question very little on the subject of COVID-19?

Or, you can alternately show us your data, analyses, background, independent research, etc. that says you're right. Which, based on your stance, goes against Nobel Prize winning folks from Stanford who said we did this wrong...

Recall... mortality rate is falling as a % of confirmed cases... 3.25% today vs. 5.96% on May 15th of this year based on WorldOMeters data.... and yes, I have been tracking this and other variables manually in Excel since 4/1/20.

Articles lie. Raw data doesn't. Data is only bastardized after some journalist gets their hands on it.

**EDIT: Quoted Phage and I didn't do it properly**

You're missing a real key point here that I encourage the balance of the readership to consider....

The vaccinations lost effectiveness... WHY?

Furthermore... follow the money. Vaccination is a big, big business. A 59.2 BILLION dollar industry, actually:

www.pharmaceuticalprocessingworld.com...

Never mind the 80 year journey to cement in the minds of the public that you must get vaccinated - can't undo that. Nor can we walk back any vaccination... as that would bring more vaccinations into question...

I'll say I could be wrong - and I could be - and you can quote this and say "you are" - fine - but it doesn't change the fact there's a lot of things one can question that aren't.

We should question a lot more things than we do, collectively, as a society.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Lastly, don't just read an article, quote it and make a statement.

The article doesn't say anything close to what you claim. No matter how much you want to cherry pick it.

Riddle me this... how is it that I can pull up flu vaccination rates, overlay that on COVID cases, and note an interesting "ah ha" that seems to be a consistent pattern...

What pattern? You know that COVID-19 is new, right? Are you saying that the pandemic was caused by some sort of "tipping point" in the number of vaccinations? Just lurking, and waiting?

New Jersey and Alabama requite flu shots for LTC facility patients - where do we have the most COVID deaths? Nursing homes!:

Yeah. It's known that old people tend to get hit much harder by the disease. Now, how about kids? Don't they get flu shots?

Maybe there's some there, there - maybe there isn't. In this case, it's highly interesting.

Maybe there's something here, too. Does organic food cause autism?

SMH.

You must eat a lot of organics, Phage, because you're trying really hard to make a point and it's just not landing.

I know you're upset because you got worked last time. Just take a break - it's clear you're tired.

I came across the table below a couple of months ago which also shows correlation to higher flu shots in people over 65 in Europe lead to a mostly higher death rate from Covid.

I believe it has been postulated by others before that persons who received a flu shot in 2019/20 were more likely to catch and die from complications of Covid.

The flu shot protects you from the flu, but at the expense of your immune system not being able to throw an appropriate response to other non influenza viruses. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Also, Statin meds can inhibit the bodies ability to properly fight covid. www.health.harvard.edu... some may say that NIH and Harvard health are not reliable sources, like people who believe that the Vaccines are manna from heaven.

But no. The flu vaccines did not cause the pandemic, they only increased the risk of having a more serious covid 19 illness. This virus is transmitted very easily, how our body responds to it is the issue.

a reply to: rickymouse

The flu shot protects you from the flu, but at the expense of your immune system not being able to throw an appropriate response to other non influenza viruses.

Your source is not nearly as convinced as you are.

The increased risk of noninfluenza respiratory virus infection among TIV recipients could be an artefactual finding; for example, measurement bias could have resulted if participants were more likely to report their first ARI episode but less likely to report subsequent episodes, whereas there was no real difference in rhinovirus or other noninfluenza respiratory virus infections after the winter influenza season. The increased risk could also indicate a real effect. Receipt of TIV could increase influenza immunity at the expense of reduced immunity to noninfluenza respiratory viruses, by some unknown biological mechanism. Alternatively, our results could be explained by temporary nonspecific immunity after influenza virus infection, through the cell-mediated response or, more likely, the innate immune response to infection [21–23]. Participants who received TIV would have been protected against influenza in February 2009 but then would not have had heightened nonspecific immunity in the following weeks. They would then face a higher risk of certain other virus infections in March 2009, compared with placebo recipients (Figure 1).

Read the last two sentences of what you posted, it takes two weeks or more for the vaccine to build up the immunity, so in march the other viral infections became a higher risk

The article states in the beginning that there is increased risk, the part you are pointing out only is addressing they do not completely know the method of action, they have ideas why but they have not been tested. We have multiple part immune systems, the innate and the antigen type which has a name. If you inhibit the innate which utilizes T cells, it can cause some increased risk.

They just found that there are specialized T cells and I studied the medicines that actually reduce these T cell creation and this applies to covid too.....there are some medicines that inhibit the creation of these cells, meds that are used to stop inflammation in some diseases. I think they are in the T4 class, there is a link on this article to the main article I think. scitechdaily.com...
Reread that article properly, it definitely shows a link, just like other articles I have read, in reduced immunity to other pathogenic diseases caused by certain vaccinations. If the front end of your car is out of line, often the car pulls in a way you do not want it to pull and it can cause things to happen. Vaccinating for something you may not come in contact with when you have a weaker immune system can lead to you catching a different disease.

a reply to: rickymouse

Read the last two sentences of what you posted, it takes two weeks or more for the vaccine to build up the immunity, so in march the other viral infections became a higher risk

I read the whole thing.

They have no idea what the result means. And that's what I said about them.


We do agree that the pandemic was not caused by flu shots though.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rickymouse

Read the last two sentences of what you posted, it takes two weeks or more for the vaccine to build up the immunity, so in march the other viral infections became a higher risk

I read the whole thing.

They have no idea what the result means. And that's what I said about them.


We do agree that the pandemic was not caused by flu shots though.

www.disabledveterans.org...

This one is good...to the point.

www.bmj.com...

a reply to: rickymouse

www.disabledveterans.org...

That is an incorrect interpretation of the study.

“The study does not show or suggest that influenza vaccination predisposes in any way, the potential for infection with the more severe forms of coronavirus, such as COVID-19,” the MHS said.

source

www.bmj.com...

Ditto, for the same reasons.

The study showed that a flu vaccination does not protect one from coronavirus. We know that.

a reply to: Phage

How can this BMJ article mean anything other than what it says.

From the article:
"John Watkins is right; we need to think beyond containment, but he overlooks the possibility that seasonal flu shots are potential contributors to the current outbreak. (BMJ 2020;398:m810—February 28)….A randomized placebo-controlled trial in children showed that flu shots increased fivefold the risk of acute respiratory infections caused by a group of noninfluenza viruses, including coronaviruses. (Cowling et al, Clin Infect Dis 2012;54:1778) From Table 3, vaccine recipients had 20 noninfluenza virus-positive ARIs and 19 virus-negative ARIs; non-recipients had 3 noninfluenza virus-positive ARIs and 14 virus-negative ARIs. These figures yield an odds ratio of 4.91 (CI 1.04 to8.14).

Such an observation may seem counterintuitive, but it is possible that influenza vaccines alter our immune systems non-specifically to increase susceptibility to other infections; this has been observed with DTP and other vaccines. (Benn et al, Trends in Immunology, May 2013) There are other immune mechanisms that might also explain the observation.

a reply to: rickymouse

How can this BMJ article mean anything other than what it says.

Because, as I said, that is not what the study shows. There is no way to determine that a flu vaccination caused people to catch a cold (much less COVID-19) from the data in that study because there were no controls for that. Read the article I linked. I read both of yours.

Human beings are such an arrogant lot! Thinking that they know everything, when there is no way to know all the variables or long term effects of these fairly recent developments!

In my lifetime I‘ve had the oral polio & small pox vaccine. That’s it.
I had real measles, chicken pox & the barfing kind of flu more times than I care to remember! They tell me that I had six kinds of flu in one month, in first grade. But I never had it after that!

My kids, if I remember right, had maybe five shots, including the boosters.
I remember being concerned because they didn’t give a small pox one anymore. Talk about a pandemic waiting to happen. There probably is a vial of it somewhere in a germ warfare lab. Can anything ever really be eradicated?

Now, every newborn, before it leaves the hospital, is given a Hep-B shot. With an immature immune system! Why? They all don’t have chronic Hep-B positive parents! And it isn’t spread that easily anyway!

If I remember correctly, now they give something like forty shots to kids. Including all the boosters, but not counting yearly flu shots. I believe that was before high school age. And they give up to three different ones at one time! Nobody is ever exposed to forty diseases in one lifetime, or three at one time, much less in childhood! We’re doing this to young children, born with no health issues. It’s mind boggling & exasperating to me! They don’t know what the effects of this vaccine ‘soup’ might be years down the road!

They found that some of the vaccines don’t give lifetime immunity, like having the real illness does, so now extra boosters are needed. How can anyone think that this is a good idea? That there aren’t going to be ramifications eventually? Are all the allergies & auto immune illnesses that have been increasing over the years one of the results?

They had to take the Lyme vaccine off of the market. The HPV one has had serious side effects. I had Guillain-Barre due to undiagnosed Lyme disease. The first question the Neurologist asked me when I was life flighted? Did you by chance have the 1976 flu shot!!! Thirty years later that could still be an issue?

I was still living in Hawaii in 1976. I remember people lining up at the Ala Moana Mall to get flu shots! At the time I wondered why. How many people really get the flu in Hawaii with all the great weather & sunshine? I also remember the newspaper headline later, that 26 people had died from those flu shots! And to think that it still could be an issue! What went wrong with it? I’ve asked doctors & neurologists & done online searches, but couldn’t get any answers!

Sure there are some vaccines that are needed & life saving. But to vaccinate for every possible illness & make it mandatory? Not so much! Especially since we don’t know the possible long term effects yet!

WOQ

can we have some COMMON sense?? someone posted 65 and older population in 2018-2019 who got a flu shot was 67% and that more seniors who got the flu shot got the covid 19 ...people need to UNDERSTAND what the numbers MEAN ....the total number of seniors over 65 in 2020 52 million if 67% got flu shots that is about 34 million seniors got the flu shot leaving 18 million who did not get the shot.....

so is it not logical that there would be more covid cases form the pool of 34 million seniors that got the flu shot verses the pool of 18 million seniors who did NOT get the flu shot.

and like Phage keeps posting...the flu shot causes your body to make antibodies against the flu it is much milder to no reaction at all (still your body makes the antibodies) than getting the actual flu

a reply to: wasobservingquietly

a reply to: EnigmaChaser


A lot of assumption there, you sort of seem to be suggesting something...then going on to assume that it is somehow true.

I think there is a need to look into things more, ask an expert even.

a reply to: wasobservingquietly

Here is an article that may interest you.

a reply to: rickymouse

Invisible link? 😁

WOQ

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

There are a few published studies, one started in Canada, replicated 5 times, then replicated in the US, Japan and France that shows, while the flu shot may protect you from the strain in it that year, it leaves you far more likely to come down with other non-influenza respiratory viruses. So yeah!

This article refers to the study when it first came out and hadn't been replicated many times afterwards.
LINK



And this is probably one of the best researched and backed up articles I've ever seen to show how there is a huge downside to the flu shot:

LINK 2


Let's not pretend the people pushing shots don't KNOW about these studies. They happily dismiss them and chant "safe and effective." Well because of that, we may have gotten a lot of people very sick. A few short months before the "pandemic" started, Italy and China had just had HUGE vaccination campaigns.

a reply to: wasobservingquietly

Well said. To me, it's just logic that so many vaccinations are going to end up doing something. The trouble is that when the evidence mounts, everyone happily ignores it.