If COVID Safety Protocols are Followed Who is Responsible If I Catch It

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Boadicea

I don't know Boadicea, just because Mother Nature created viruses before we played with them doesn't mean nature is responsible for this one after researchers pushed the virus to infect human tissues. But I understand better where you are coming from.

Well, that's a good thing!

To paraphrase your analogy, Mother Nature makes it rain, if you get wet in the rain it's your fault for not using an umbrella. It's your fault when you were hoping not to get wet without one. But what if you do use a rain coat and umbrella and still get wet anyway? You'd get pissed for buying an outfit and umbrella that didn't did keep you dry as it was advertised to do. Can you be blamed for believing the rain gear manufacturer that their products work, or can you blame the manufacturer for shoddy products and false advertising?

Short answer, yes! Long answer, if you do your due diligence and make every effort to take appropriate precautions and protective measures, including express promises and claims of the manufacturer of products intended to provide protections, but those claims and promises were bogus and you get wet, then you were wronged by the manufacturer. On the other hand, if you purchase a lacy umbrella meant to protect from the sun and think it will protect from the rain and it doesn't, then obviously, the manufacturer is not liable if they did not claim or promise that it would protect from the rain. Or, if you purchase an umbrella that is promised to protect from the rain and it does, but it blows away in the wind so you still get wet, that's NOT on the manufacturer.

In terms of viruses, interesting enough, while Mother Nature may be the cause, Mother Nature is also the solution... i.e., our own immune system. If this is a tweaked virus, what was the purpose? De-population? Power grab? Profit? None of the above? Or all of the above?

Because -- again, interesting enough! -- while man might be the cause, Mother Nature is still the solution.

a reply to: Boadicea

Ah, you have explained to me in such a way I totally get your point now. "Buyer Beware" for my analogy. I agree with that last statement esp.

while man might be the cause, Mother Nature is still the solution.

ETA: The thing is, Mother Nature's solution may be to go back to the drawing board after scrapping the human project. Thanks Mom! That's some tough love there.

What if I want to get wet? Does that mean I'm still at fault for not using an umbrella? Where's the fault on my part? I did that intentionally.

Of course we don't want to get Covid and have the bad symptoms or die from it, but George has it right as usual, without practice our immune system can't do its job.

I wear the mask in stores for two reasons. I don't have the financial means to fight this in court or bail myself out of jail from a confrontation that would happen if I were challenged by the wrong person. I am not a mouth breather so I often let my mask slip down under my nose otherwise I can get short of breath. I'm just waiting for some Nancy to yell at me because my response is going to be "I'm only wearing this to keep you from FREAKING OUT about it so GFY and get out of my face!"

I know, that's not nice but neither is someone yelling at you for not complying to the overlords.

I'm so sick of all of this.

a reply to: HalWesten

George has it right as usual, without practice our immune system can't do its job.

Carlin went a little overboard with the toothbrush bit and swimming in an open sewer as a kid, but it is totally entertaining to watch him rant. He sure was a pissy old curmudgeon toward the end of his life.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

You think the government will use force against it's own citizens for something that does not have any real data that hasn't been tampered with?

How about the flu? Could people be fined, and ultimately imprisoned for spreading the flu? How about pink eye? Common cold? How about an light upper respiratory cold that could kill the elderly, and immune compromised?

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

ETA: The thing is, Mother Nature's solution may be to go back to the drawing board after scrapping the human project. Thanks Mom! That's some tough love there.

Yup! That's a distinct possibility. (nervous LOL here....) But can we really blame her? As a whole, we are not behaving well.

When my son was an obnoxious teenager, I told him plenty of times that I brought him into the world and I can take him right back out again... So I kinda know how Mother Nature feels -- but times what? 7.5 billion???

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

this is a completely ridiculous question. blame doesn't even come into it.

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

this is a completely ridiculous question. blame doesn't even come into it.

The talking heads are suggesting that it is the fault of citizen's that catch the virus. If you go with the story that this is an unaltered natural virus as it was found in the wild, then nature came up with it and can be blamed. But if researchers in a lab forced it to transmit to human tissues and then through a failure to follow protocols allows it to escape and become a pandemic, that sounds like they carry the blame.

In reply to KnoxMSP,

You think the government will use force against it's own citizens for something that does not have any real data that hasn't been tampered with?

Sure, they'd never let a good crisis go to waste.

You. You are just as responsible for your choices as I am, which, might I point out, are merely educated roulette guesses.

We live our entire lives at the whim of each choice made with the best possible guessed outcomes. Even if we're certain of something, there's always that minuscule chance of odds of it blowing up in your face.

Life is Russian Roulette. One of those choices you make will lead to your eventual death as it is, but that's moot because we end up dead no matter the choices we make anyway.

a reply to: Nyiah

Doll, I prefer to not get sick if possible. But apparently there are those who would have me get sick it and make it my fault it seems.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Nyiah

Doll, I prefer to not get sick if possible. But apparently there are those who would have me get sick it and make it my fault it seems.

Maybe I went too poetic, but I think you missed my point. We're only responsible for ourselves & our only real sphere of influence on personal safety & caution is....limited to ourselves. You can make a choice between 3 choices, they're different , i.e go get your groceries yourself, let a family member drop off groceries while staying semi self-isolated, or let a delivery shopper personally handle them. Ok, you err on the cautious side, and opt for the delivery shopper & stick to it religiously for months and stay isolated at home.

But you end up sick anyway, so who's fault is it?
Yours.

Who knows what their series of choices was, maybe it was a split second's wind change that drifted someone's sudden sneeze their way in a parking lot. Maybe they got it from their spouse, Who knows. The point is you're no more responsible for their getting sick than they are for your getting sick. In other words, it boils down to we're only responsible for our choices and thus getting sick (or not) in the end.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Nyiah

Doll, I prefer to not get sick if possible. But apparently there are those who would have me get sick it and make it my fault it seems.

Maybe I went too poetic, but I think you missed my point. We're only responsible for ourselves & our only real sphere of influence on personal safety & caution is....limited to ourselves . . .

Then how do you explain the "fact" that face covering and masking is to protect others, not ourselves?

The point is you're no more responsible for their getting sick than they are for your getting sick.

Then why even bother masking up? It is claimed it only works if everyone uses a face covering. When I use a mask it is to protect others, if I don't I could be responsible for getting someone else sick.

ETA: When I go to the closest hardware store, like all the other stores they have a sign saying you need a mask to enter the store. I was the only one wearing a mask the last three times I went there in the past week. Is this my fault? I guess if I went there three times, but I wore my mask like a good little boy. There could be a local outbreak from this, just earlier today, there was a Kalamazoo couple there in front of me, no masks, and they were chatting it up with the shop owner who also wore no mask.

Lawsuits have been happening in relation to COVID, but not as much as has been predicted.

Troubling Pattern Of COVID-19 Workplace Litigation Begins To Emerge 6.17.20 As an increasing number of employees return to work, employers should be aware that a number of COVID-19-related lawsuits raising FMLA and ADA concerns have already begun to emerge. What do employers need to know in order to avoid being on the receiving end of such a claim?

Link to article

Coronavirus goes to court: After lives and livelihoods come the lawsuits - The coronavirus pandemic is imperiling more than lives and livelihoods. It's also leading to lawsuits. Workers are suing companies. Businesses are suing insurers. Prison inmates and migrants in detention, abortion providers and gun shop owners are suing federal and state governments.

Link to USA Today article

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I was the only one wearing a mask the last three times I went there in the past week.

I'm glad I don't live where you do. Most people here have a bit more sense.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Look at Canada, almost no covid because they adhere to the prevention protocols. While the US is putting dead people in reefer trucks in Texas where those cowboys don't need no stinkin masks.

Is there a correlation? I seldom wear a mask unless I'm around a bunch of scroungy people and Everyone's scroungy!!

Here's an analogy....

When you were out in the beer joints looking for female playmates and when you got lucky did you wear a mask...I don't think I need to draw you a picture, eh.

Well, that didn't work; mixed metaphors seldom do...

We have Big Pharma now being exempt from COVID19 liability claims. Here is the ATS thread on this subject.

ATS Thread Link

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I was the only one wearing a mask the last three times I went there in the past week.

I'm glad I don't live where you do. Most people here have a bit more sense.

I stopped at two other local stores today, both gas station/party stores. They were going by the book except for the one cashier that rang me up had her nose sticking out. In the bigger towns, they all mask up pretty much.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

We have Big Pharma now being exempt from COVID19 liability claims.

Not exactly. Compensation is provided for.

The PREP Act, like workers’ compensation or the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, substitutes a no-fault, speedy compensation system in place of expensive and uncertain litigation. Those who have been seriously injured or died as the direct result of a covered countermeasure administered or used under a declaration may seek compensation from the Covered Countermeasures Process Fund.

There is no blanket immunity, but in order to directly sue, willful misconduct must be demonstrated.

Under the PREP Act, immunity is broad. As a general matter, a covered person is immune from liability for all claims for loss except for willful misconduct that proximately caused death or serious injury.

www.hhs.gov...

The law goes back a number of years, but it takes a declaration to initiate it. That declaration was initially made in March, retroactive to February.

a reply to: Phage

Seems reasonable enough, and considering the pandemic push to get vaccines and treatment out, I can understand that is necessary.

Obviously, you are!

The "educated scientific community" is "grasping at straws" just like you are. You'd just be another negative "number" on a chart or graph. Doesn't bother them one way or another. They can spin it in their favor either way...

It is a bunch of nonsense.