who say china is not copying

Originally posted by Daedalus3
MAybe china is trying to ensure that they can acheive some sort of parity with the USN Pacific fleet vis-a-vis a Taiwan invasion..
Aegis type destroyers...
I think a more in-depth comparision of this type 52C and the actual Aegis is in order..
PHased Array radar makes it Aegis?? Who's the expert on this?

www.fas.org...

not to transfer nuclear weapons, other nuclear explosive devices, or their technology to any non-nuclear-weapon state

last time i checked missles arent nuclear weapons

YEs.. you are correct.. but nobody puts conventional warheads on ballistic missiles..NONBODY..



Chinese assistance to Pakistan after signing on to the NPT (1992):

www.nti.org...

excerpt:

New insights into the level of Chinese assistance to Pakistan came about in early 2004 as a result of on-site investigations into Libya's nuclear weapons program, following Mu`ammar al-Qadhdhafi's dramatic reversal on WMD programs in late 2003. As part of disarmament inspections, early Chinese nuclear weapons designs were handed over to IAEA inspectors by Libyan scientists, wrapped in plastic bags bearing an address in Islamabad. The possession by a third party of complete step-by-step instructions for a workable implosion-type bomb raised anew concerns over China's proliferation history with Pakistan, as notes included in the package of documents reportedly suggested that China continued to mentor Pakistani scientists on the finer points of bomb-building over several years following the technology transfers

China transferred nuclear material to India as well (before India went nuclear)but under IAEA safeguards..
Not the same case with Pakistan...Transfers are suspected to be continued after Pakistan went nuclear.. (above excerpt)and below link as well..

www.nti.org...

more exercerpts:

China joined the Zangger Committee-which clarifies certain export obligations under the NPT-in October 1997 and participated in the Zangger Conversion Technology Holders meeting in February 1999. This was China's first opportunity to participate in a discussion of this type.

China pledged in late 1997 not to engage in any new nuclear cooperation with Iran but said it would complete work associated with two remaining nuclear projects-a small research reactor and a zirconium production facility-in a relatively short period of time. The Intelligence Community will continue to monitor carefully Chinese nuclear cooperation with Iran.

During the reporting period, firms in China provided missile-related items, raw materials, and/or assistance to several countries of proliferation concern-such as Iran. China also was a supplier of ACW to Iran through the first half of 1999.

Prior to the reporting period, Chinese firms had supplied CW-related production equipment and technology to Iran. The US sanctions imposed in May 1997 on seven Chinese entities for knowingly and materially contributing to Iran's CW program remain in effect. In June 1998, China announced that it had expanded its chemical export controls to include 10 of the 20 Australia Group chemicals not listed on the CWC schedules.

China has provided extensive support in the past to Pakistan's WMD and ballistic missile programs, and some ballistic missile assistance continues. In May 1996, Beijing promised to stop assistance to unsafeguarded nuclear facilities, but we cannot preclude ongoing contacts. China's involvement with Pakistan will continue to be monitored closely.

Also check out something called the MTCR... Missile technology control regime..
China has been in breach of that vis-a-vis Pakistan and North Korea..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
YEs.. you are correct.. but nobody puts conventional warheads on ballistic missiles..NONBODY..

WTF. examples. iraq iran china saudi arabia. russia. all those SCUDs

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Also check out something called the MTCR... Missile technology control regime..
China has been in breach of that vis-a-vis Pakistan and North Korea..

please the MTCR is informal and voluntary. you cant be in violantion of this if you arent a member.

yes but sanctions can be applied to any country BY a country who is a signatory of the MTCR..
Its a regime in which the signatories control missile transfer by necessary sanctions etc..not the other way around..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
yes but sanctions can be applied to any country BY a country who is a signatory of the MTCR..
Its a regime in which the signatories control missile transfer by necessary sanctions etc..not the other way around..

those sanctions were for nuclear related tech

If you mean by nuclear warheads then China hasn't broken any treaty yet...If you mean by ballistic missles then a lot of countries have given missle tech to NK and Iran, including Russia,Ukraine,Pakistan and a lot more. However, there is no real ban on ballistic missle tech trading.

Thats not what some ppl think..
REad my big post above..
Many NPT breach accusations along with MTCR lapses as well...

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Thats not what some ppl think..
REad my big post above..
Many NPT breach accusations along with MTCR lapses as well...

China has provided extensive support in the past to Pakistan's WMD and ballistic missile programs, and some ballistic missile assistance continues. In May 1996, Beijing promised to stop assistance to unsafeguarded nuclear facilities, but we cannot preclude ongoing contacts. China's involvement with Pakistan will continue to be monitored closely.

hello. there is nothing mentioned about not allowed to ship over ballistic tech. only nuclear tech. it just mentions that china has gave pakistan support

Yes.. Initially I was wrong in saying that the NPT covers ballistic transfers as well..It doesn't..You were correct..
So I did a little research and found NPT (nuclear material) violation accusations too..And in the case of CHina and Pakistan they're v. v. specific accusations..
E.g: Transfer of "ring magnets" in 96' I think..

I'm saying specific because accusations have been made on Russia vis-a-vis India as well but they're vague..Nothing specific


And the Scuds you're talking about.. Well they're under the tolerance limits for MTCR.. You see Russia is a signatory of the MTCR...
The M-11 and other variants give Pakistan ranges beyond 1000km..

Wikipedia says that NK, Iran, and Pakistan have used Scud variants to achieve ranges of 1300km to 1500km but NK and Pakistan NEVER had access to Russian(USSR) Scuds..

[edit on 9-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

Pakistan’s missile build-up all along has been India-centric. Unlike India, which has to take the China threat into consideration, Pakistan has the luxury to focus its entire missile build-up on Indian developments.

Strategically, Pakistan has today not only offset India’s overwhelming conventional military superiority by its nuclear weaponisation but also acquired a missile force which in terms of speed of acquisition outstrips India’s pace of development of missiles. China prominently and DPRK by proxy have significantly contributed to Pakistan’s missile build-up. China has even provided a complete plant in 1995 to produce M-11 nuclear capable M-11 missiles and their variants in Pakistan. China has persistently defied international non-proliferation norms and US pressures against Chinese proliferation of WMD’s in Pakistan. No indicators are available to suggest that China would desist in future too. China’s South Asian policy objective to strategically de-stabilise India would continue unabated, despite protestations to the contrary.

India has no political or military options to limit Pakistan’s nuclear weaponisation and missile build-up. Pakistan can only be limited by India imposing an economically unaffordable counter-buildup in these fields- uneconomical for Pakistan and her benefactors too. Needless to say that this is an imperative if peace and stability have to prevail in South Asia.

north korea NEVER had any help from china.................

The Pyongyang government received Frog-7s and 60-km range Frog-5 tactical rockets from the Soviet Union in 1969. When the Soviets furnished the North with rockets, they also provided high-explosive shell warheads, but North Korea developed chemical projectile warheads for the Frog-5 and Frog-7A.

www.globalsecurity.org...

the longest missile china sold to pakistan was 800km range

stop child play here whole world know that chine is actively supplying misile as well as missile tech to pakistan i dont want wast time to post some detail if you still not belive than you can search on your own .. a$$O

And the Scuds you're talking about.. Well they're under the tolerance limits for MTCR.. You see Russia is a signatory of the MTCR...
The M-11 and other variants give Pakistan ranges beyond 1000km..

Wikipedia says that NK, Iran, and Pakistan have used Scud variants to achieve ranges of 1300km to 1500km but NK and Pakistan NEVER had access to Russian(USSR) Scuds..

You know the Russians gave India a lot of help with the design of the Agni variants and also supplied a lot of modified SRBMs beyond the range of 1000km... The thing is that Russia gave India as much help as China gave Pakistan with missle tech... it is not limited just to China, countries such as Russia, Ukraine and many others also proliferate missle tech. Missle tech transfer is not a direct breech of the NPT, so China isn't exactly breaking any treaty.

Originally posted by mirza2003
stop child play here whole world know that chine is actively supplying misile as well as missile tech to pakistan i dont want wast time to post some detail if you still not belive than you can search on your own .. a$$O

here is some information about the Agni missile

www.wisconsinproject.org...

a lot of help from outside



also china only sold pakistan 800km range missiles..........................

You know the Russians gave India a lot of help with the design of the Agni variants and also supplied a lot of modified SRBMs beyond the range of 1000km... The thing is that Russia gave India as much help as China gave Pakistan with missle tech... it is not limited just to China, countries such as Russia, Ukraine and many others also proliferate missle tech. Missle tech transfer is not a direct breech of the NPT, so China isn't exactly breaking any treaty.

Why did not you start a Thread of one joke daily

1000km range SRBM BTW i never heard that joke can plz provide a link or it is also just another !@##$$% post.

And correction for you 1000 km range come inthe catogery of IRBM not SRBM whicht belong to Hatf, M11 or Pritvi.

Originally posted by mirza2003

1000km range SRBM BTW i never heard that joke can plz provide a link or it is also just another !@##$$% post.

And correction for you 1000 km range come inthe catogery of IRBM not SRBM whicht belong to Hatf, M11 or Pritvi.

thats not funny

jesus your weird. i can point out every spelling mistake you did

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by mirza2003

1000km range SRBM BTW i never heard that joke can plz provide a link or it is also just another !@##$$% post.

And correction for you 1000 km range come inthe catogery of IRBM not SRBM whicht belong to Hatf, M11 or Pritvi.

thats not funny

jesus your weird. i can point out every spelling mistake you did

You have to more care about in giving explanation about 1000km SRBM sold to India than my spelling mistake's


And I am not sit front of computer 24 hrs like you so give me pardon for that

I am now

Huh, first time I've heard the DF/M-11s are capable of ranges over 1000 Km. Someone needs to read more.

Originally posted by mirza2003

You have to more care about in giving explanation about 1000km SRBM sold to India than my spelling mistake's

And I am not sit front of computer 24 hrs like you so give me pardon for that

i dont know what warload was thinking but probaly refering to a modified scud.

i am not

to