Outside police agencies pulling out of Democratic convention

a reply to: carsforkids

I am one who thinks that there is police over-reach, yet at the same time recognize the need for law enforcement in our society. For one thing, much of our social and economic structure appears to be centered on congregations of masses of people. Huge sporting events, huge sales events, political events and so on. These types of congregations of people in small spaces is not necessary. De-centralization here would help a lot.

So when some people call for ''defunding the police'' I don't think they mean to do away with a police force but rather re-direct the masses of money spent on enforcement and redirect it to peaceful constructs that remove the situations that create crime in the first place. Turn police from ''enforcement officers'' back to ''peacekeepers. This could allow more funds to be given to stronger community programs instead of using it to ''control'' the community.

No police? No problem! The DNC should reach out to Louisville (Highly) Irregulars, a.k.a. tPoC Militia, for security. Just have to make sure that all convention participants sign a waiver releasing DNC or tPoC Militia from any and all liability related to random inadvertent discharge of firearms.

So, I read as much of the linked Yahooo-eww! "news" story as I could tolerate, and something almost immediately caught my attention:

Morales did not say which agencies would not be coming or how many officers were still expected. The original plan was to have 1,000 officers on hand from outside agencies to assist with security. Morales said utilizing the National Guard or enlisting federal assistance was under consideration.

National Guard? Federal assistance?? Say what now?

o_O

Let me see if I understand things correctly.

The Democratic National Committee is NOT an official government organization. They are not, say, analogous to the DOE, FCC, IRS, etc etc. How do we know this? Their supporters told us this, in no uncertain terms, when vocal alarms and consternation rang out in response to Hillary Clinton being handed the Democratic nomination for POTUS in 2016, despite evidence that Bernie Sanders had accumulated more primary votes (the /real/ votes from normal people, not the 'Superdelegate' creatures). Over and over, outsiders were reminded by the party apparatchiks, the DNC is a private entity, NOT beholden to their voters, NOT beholden to the public, NOT bound by any rules governing transparency, NOT obliged to honor FOIA requests, although they themselves can fire off FOIA requests at will. The DNC can nominate who the hell they want, how they want, when they want, and nobody outside their little club has any official input.

I might add for the record, /neither is the Republican National Committee/ considered a governmental agency, or any other "political party organization".

Real funny how that works: effectively 2 private organizations with no accountability to anybody are given carte blanche to pick 1 of the 2 people in the world eligible to hold the chief executive office in the United State, but I'm digressing.

All this being the case....when "bad things happen" to the poor ol' DNC, and dont'cha know it, seems ever since the heady days of 2016 and Hildawg and Deb Wasserman-Schultz, bad things keep happening to our poor comrades, any bad break or unfortunate turn of events seem to end up with getting assistance from US federal agencies. You know, the ones that all of our tax dollars, D or R or L or pick your letter, go towards operating.

For instance, in 2016, when the Russians allegedly hacked the DNC's email servers, somehow the flailing and flubbing and bumbling (see John Podesta's email password) and impotent security of a private entity, suddenly necessitates assistance from federal agencies. Somebody with pull phoned it into the FBI, and almost immediately the full power and influence of the top domestic investigative and LE agency is at the DNC's beck and call. Of course now in retrospect we see that the separation between where the DNC and FBI respective but and lips are is nearly indistinguishable (thanks to "PeterMan" Strozk), but there I go again digressing. Now, naturally, the DNC spurned this investigative lifeline from their buds at the FBI, because once you get Johnny Law involved, well, then pesky facts like transparency and records and FOIA WILL BE in the public domain, so no no no, can't have that.

Now here we are again, in 2020, and the hits just keeep onnn coming. Turns out when you throw Johnny Law under the bus for political expediency, it might be kind of a stretch to expect officers to fall over themselves to help out the same political critters who are out on every media outlet and soapbox and political pulpit they can crawl up onto, decrying the "police problem" we have in this country.

As an aside, to be perfectly honest, EVEN IF there wasn't a rift between the DNC and nationwide police organizations (as evidenced by recent news of police unions breaking tradition to decline supporting Biden), how much hazard pay do you think it'd take to entice police officers to gear up and put their health and lives on the line, to go out and combat the anarchists and agitators and provocateurs who are nightly seen waging a campaign of violence and terrorism in US urban centers? Sounds just like the kind of overtime I'd want as a police officer: go spend my down time in a Portland-esque setting. How you think these national political conventions are going to go down? Nice, cooperative sign-holding spectators standing outside the convention, utilizing their Constitutional right of assembly? Or will it be ANTIFA time.

So all of this being the case, I gotta ask: How the flyin' F does the DNC, or RNC, or any non-governmental agency, get to call in a few companies of the National Guard? How does that happen?! None of the private entities and businesses in Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, St. Lous, on and on and on, were afforded this level of protection and security. But somehow, a PRIVATE political organization, whose supporters will tell you over and over, till they're blue in the face, that have not accountability to the public or voters, is afforded the ability to call in state-backed and tax payer funded US soldiers?

You cannot make this stuff up. Unreal.

I've droned on enough though. It's pretzel time; gotta spectate on the acrobatics and contortions performed to twist logic where private, "blessed" organizations get to have their cake and eat it too.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

So when some people call for ''defunding the police'' I don't think they mean to do away with a police force but rather re-direct the masses of money spent on enforcement and redirect it to peaceful constructs that remove the situations that create crime in the first place. Turn police from ''enforcement officers'' back to ''peacekeepers. This could allow more funds to be given to stronger community programs instead of using it to ''control'' the community.

I just don't think you have it clear in mind what some criminals
are like. Otherwise your thinking is golden and I get I really do.
Then again maybe I've been around to much. Seen to much.

Not only anarchists but nefarious conservative operatives as well are, I'm sure making their plans

Why in the hell would we have to do that?

You guys are going to screw it all up by yourself just like you did in 1968 .

Too many lunatics with even loonier ideas.

The Democratic party will shoot it self in the foot .

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

They would have a hard time getting a pity vote at the bar at closing time, especially since they made closing time 10pm now with 1/4 capacity....

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

They've erased all their history. Now they're bound to repeat it. I can't say I pity their ignorance.

I grew up in the 60's and watched America being torn apart by the civil rights movement. I can't believe that after that monumental struggle for racial equality, the BLM is espousing separating the races again.

Sad part is, I have to watch these morons repeat history, and I'm powerless to stop it.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

So when some people call for ''defunding the police'' I don't think they mean to do away with a police force but rather re-direct the masses of money spent on enforcement and redirect it to peaceful constructs that remove the situations that create crime in the first place. Turn police from ''enforcement officers'' back to ''peacekeepers. This could allow more funds to be given to stronger community programs instead of using it to ''control'' the community.

As someone who has seen police brutality first hand, to me if you didn't catch that, I agree with the above post whole heartedly. I was arrested for resisting arrest. That seems like an oxy moron to me, but it happened. Police officers where called to the seen of a fight that I did not even see, as I was getting off of a bus at a park and ride after returning home from work. I was met with police officers asking me where the fight was. Actually they said exactly "Hey my man, where was the fight"? I am not your man first off.

I informed the officers that I hadn't seen a fight and just got off of the bus and to ask someone at the "pavilion". They continued to harass me even though I was in business casual clothes and everyone at the park and ride was telling the police officers that I wasn't involved and that I just got off the bus. They continued to harass me pointing fingers in my face, so eventually fed up I asked them to get their #ing finger out of my face. One grabbed my wrist then yelled resisting arrest. Literally six cops tried to tackle me when someone yelled out fall down, as the 6 of them for some reason struggled to get me down. I think diving at my ankles and holding onto my knees might not be the proper technique to apprehend a suspect. As I was voluntarily falling one of the cops yelled this is how we do it. They proceeded to arrest me for resisting arrest, I however fail to see how you can resist arrest of a crime that you did not commit.

People are fed up with the lack of training and yes police brutality. Over the years the police have done themselves no favors in their actions. The police union being even worst always defining police even when they obviously killed someone either by mistake or in cold blood. It is time for them to be held accountable for their actions, like the no knock raid on Breanna Taylors house. No person is going to to rightfully stand and let their home get invaded. The police didn't even yell police and had the wrong house. Why in gods green earth aren't they charged? That is exactly the problem, that is a license to kill.

For an organization who is supposed to be tough, their feelings are sure easily hurt. The police are here to protect and serve all, not who is convenient. The police unions are playing partistan politics and stand against the people and that is what is causing the protests. The police are supposed to be impartial but are far from it. Stop killing innocent people, and let's admit also, that black people have been unjustly targeted. I noticed that black people are guilty until proven innocent, in a society that just freed out great or great great grand parent. We aren't talking so long ago, Especially when as a young person your great grand parent is still alive.

Just some food for thought, instead of all this that's what they get. Think about that actual people and not the politics, there are legitimate grievances that have been ignored for far to long.

a reply to: greysave

No offense, that's a sucky sitch to end up in of no fault of your own there, but you're in the extreme minority of 300+ MILLION people, the vast majority of us never have an issue with the police. There's a damn good reason the blowback against the "change the police/defund the police" movement is so harsh -- an extreme minority out of several hundred million plus having some problems is an extreme minority out of several hundred million plus having some problems, it's not the standard for the rest of the citizens by far. What you folks want is tantamount to tossing the wailing baby out with the bathwater to shut it up -- missing the entire forest for the trees right there, that's very short-sighted and being equally unnecessarily heavy-handed. I can't support that s#, and won't. You know what they say about eye for an eye, and blindness.

Until groups can make demands for things proportionally (go after bad individual cops and legit crooked local departments only) then you're not going to get much (if any) real sympathy or support while broadbrushing the entire country's police force collectively. Sorry, but that's what it boils down to, you keep jumping the shark and making asinine blanket demands not applicable or appropriate to all departments country-wide. And then you bitch and whine and scream racism and can't figure out why people resist the notion? Open your damn eyes, most people see straight through the demands & insults.

If you WANT support, then DON'T demand all departments lose money -- I sure as hell don't want MY cops to poof and turn MY middle class neighborhood into a Wild West zone. If you want that & think it's some screwed up version of progress, then go to Portland or Seattle, they don't seem to care much out there if they have cops to rely/fall back on or not. The rest of the country DOES.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
news.yahoo.com...

This is interesting to me. I have wondered for months just how the Democrats would handle their convention this year.

What with all the ''protesting''' going on with rioting being it's ugly sister, just how would the Democrats fair should their convention be hijacked by problem makers. Not only anarchists but nefarious conservative operatives as well are, I'm sure making their plans

The convention location has been changed to a much smaller venue with most speeches being video speeches with only around 300 delegates and staff expected at the center. This though still offers a grand target for disruption.

I wonder how the smarter heads in the Democrat Party will deal with this looming problem

Apparently this is a push back by police captians' being ordered to not use tear gas and mace for crowd control

I hope the party can figure out how to handle this because the last thing they should want is anything even close to the protests in Chicago in 68. Those riots were fundamental in swaying voters into electing Nixon. ....

Come on Dems,, learn something will ya?

Yea, the cops take and oath to protect and serve and then bolt when it doesn't fit their personal political views. And we are supposed to believe racist cops stop being racist when they put on the uniform. Sorry we only signed up to crack skulls not actually protect anyone but ourselves.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
Wasnt there a bloody DNC in Chi-town in the late 60s?

Stand back, theyre about to out-do themselves

Without many police there, the rioters will be very lonely and likely turn on each other.

originally posted by: FishBait

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
news.yahoo.com...

This is interesting to me. I have wondered for months just how the Democrats would handle their convention this year.

What with all the ''protesting''' going on with rioting being it's ugly sister, just how would the Democrats fair should their convention be hijacked by problem makers. Not only anarchists but nefarious conservative operatives as well are, I'm sure making their plans

The convention location has been changed to a much smaller venue with most speeches being video speeches with only around 300 delegates and staff expected at the center. This though still offers a grand target for disruption.

I wonder how the smarter heads in the Democrat Party will deal with this looming problem

Apparently this is a push back by police captians' being ordered to not use tear gas and mace for crowd control

I hope the party can figure out how to handle this because the last thing they should want is anything even close to the protests in Chicago in 68. Those riots were fundamental in swaying voters into electing Nixon. ....

Come on Dems,, learn something will ya?

Yea, the cops take and oath to protect and serve and then bolt when it doesn't fit their personal political views. And we are supposed to believe racist cops stop being racist when they put on the uniform. Sorry we only signed up to crack skulls not actually protect anyone but ourselves.

If the DNC wants some semblance of protection, they can hire it if the security companies they approach care to take 'em up on the offer. Local police aren't beholden as rent-a-cop bitches, are they?

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Butterfinger
Wasnt there a bloody DNC in Chi-town in the late 60s?

Stand back, theyre about to out-do themselves

Without many police there, the rioters will be very lonely and likely turn on each other.

No, they will turn on the Dems who do nothing for the regular people just like the Republicans. So rest assured the Dems will be hiring security if they have to. Or grovel to the police chief.

You all just blissfully ignore the Dem Gov/Mayors totally let the police tears gas, shoot and beat protestors for weeks. It's only been recently with the feds they've attempted to act like they care but they don't. Watch Portland. That mayor is a known rich jerk posing as liberal. He let the police beat and tear gas everyone then put on a show when the feds showed up, now he'll let the police go berserk again.

Ah this is excellent! I don't blame them one bit, why should they risk their bacon for a party who wants to put them out of work, demonize them and throw them in jail for defending themselves?

Make 'em look bad boys! Thin blue line. Back the blue. Blue lives matter!

originally posted by: JBurns
Ah this is excellent! I don't blame them one bit, why should they risk their bacon for a party who wants to put them out of work, demonize them and throw them in jail for defending themselves?

Make 'em look bad boys! Thin blue line. Back the blue. Blue lives matter!

You realize Biden and Clinton passed a massive crime bill that gave the police more power? Stop and frisk, dem mayor. Obama gave the cops more money as well and basically ignored the police murdering people during his terms like it wasn't his problem. Biden has expressly said he has no plans to defund the police and most gov/mayors have said the same just asking the cops to chill a little on the beatings.

You're free to say you want your political opponents beaten by cops for no reason and for cops to not protect them for political reasons even though it's their job to serve everybody. Just be honest about what you are saying.

They cops are supposed to serve everyone, you realize we all pay taxes to pay them? They don't get to pick and choose who they serve. This is why we are in this mess because they have always chosen the rich white people to serve and beat the crap/murdered everyone else. This is why we have protests and riots, tax payers are sick of it.

a reply to: FishBait

I have no sources to back up this notion, but it seems to me, and I could be way wrong, that a very large proportion of LEO's are veterans of our military. This seems a logical conclusion to me as training such a military training would be essential to the ''law enforcement'' side of policing. It makes sense.

However,if our police are to be peacekeepers,it would make sense to defund some of the 'defensive'' aspects of the police force and re-direct those funds to the more ''peaceful'' aspects of the job such as ''social training'' and psychological type stuff.

a reply to: FishBait

police murdering people

You have at least one example of this I'm sure? And don't point to some criminal doing something stupid and getting themselves shot. That isn't murder.

Biden has expressly said he has no plans to defund the police

It won't matter anyhow since the hair sniffer won't win. Regardless, he *has* promised to defund policing by taking their money and putting it elsewhere. Definition meet dictionary.

just asking the cops to chill a little on the beatings

That'll happen as soon as the feral rioters stop attacking them, attacking the cities and burning down private property.

Whether you like it or not, police are permitted to use force to enforce the law. Full stop. Its legal, go cry somewhere else about it.

You're free to say you want your political opponents beaten by cops for no reason and for cops to not protect them for political reasons even though it's their job to serve everybody. Just be honest about what you are saying.

Wrong. I don't want to see police have their hands tied behind their back while facing off a mob that's embolded by indecisive spineless democrats. Dems have made clear which side they're on, the feral rioters not the boys in blue. So why should they risk their lives, their careers and their freedom to protect the party that wants to dispense with them?

You can run your mouth here all day long, but that doesn't change what these cops *obviously* believe. Look at the police unions shockingly backing Trump (no unions back Trump). Look at the crime skyrocket while retirements follow the same trajectory.

Call it what you want, but I love watching rioters and antifa scum get their teeth knocked out by ASPs.

They cops are supposed to serve everyone, you realize we all pay taxes to pay them? They don't get to pick and choose who they serve. This is why we are in this mess because they have always chosen the rich white people to serve and beat the crap/murdered everyone else. This is why we have protests and riots, tax payers are sick of it.

Proof?

Sounds like its democrat leaders not serving black americans since they've ran these cities for half a century now.

#WalkAway dump democrats and improve your own life

a reply to: FishBait

Whether you like it or not, democrats are following the same playbook they used against Bush 1 during the Watts riots and other instances.

It will fail.

Sadly we won't have Chief Gates to lead the way for law enforcement. This man is a real hero. Invented the SWAT team and had a huge impact on modern policing.

Maybe they could create their own police force just for the convention using people from their own party. They could style it after their own congress critters and call it the Democrat Keystone Cops. It could be organized and run similar to how they run their cities.

Actually, I can see Jerry Nadler heading it up. What a visual!

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: FishBait

I have no sources to back up this notion, but it seems to me, and I could be way wrong, that a very large proportion of LEO's are veterans of our military. This seems a logical conclusion to me as training such a military training would be essential to the ''law enforcement'' side of policing. It makes sense.

However,if our police are to be peacekeepers,it would make sense to defund some of the 'defensive'' aspects of the police force and re-direct those funds to the more ''peaceful'' aspects of the job such as ''social training'' and psychological type stuff.

I can totally get with that. For me "de-funding" is really just putting the funds in the best place to encourage real cooperation between citizens and police rather than buying tanks and tear gas with the money.

originally posted by: FishBait

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: FishBait

I have no sources to back up this notion, but it seems to me, and I could be way wrong, that a very large proportion of LEO's are veterans of our military. This seems a logical conclusion to me as training such a military training would be essential to the ''law enforcement'' side of policing. It makes sense.

However,if our police are to be peacekeepers,it would make sense to defund some of the 'defensive'' aspects of the police force and re-direct those funds to the more ''peaceful'' aspects of the job such as ''social training'' and psychological type stuff.

I can totally get with that. For me "de-funding" is really just putting the funds in the best place to encourage real cooperation between citizens and police rather than buying tanks and tear gas with the money.

Obamma should have tried that...he had 8 years to do so.

But there's not much negotiating The community can do with gang Leaders.