Bob Lazar Declared a Holy Prophet of UFOs

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Who's to say they haven't pumped all the money into exotic weapons? The hints are out there, this is just the wrong place to be looking.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Macenroe82
a reply to: DrumsRfun

I'm with you my friend.
For 30 years little tid bits have been proven legit about Bob.

Either it really happened, or he should buy a lotto ticket cuz his predictions are batting 100.

Lazar said element 115 couldn't be made in a lab, that's why it's so ironic that people say the "discovery" of element 115 proves Lazar right, they don't even know what he actually said!

Science Behind the Fiction: Can we believe the Area 51 witness or was he a liar?

Lazar also suggested that Element 115 could not be synthesized on Earth, as it is simply too heavy. Lazar claimed instead that the substance could only be made in very large stars. Though the powers that be at S-4 had pounds and pounds of the stuff.

Despite his claims, scientists in Russia did succeed in synthesizing a material which fits in the appropriate slot on the periodic table.

No parts of that statement are untrue; 115 cannot be synthesized in a stable form as of now. Could it be eventually? Maybe, but the 115 we can synthesize is unstable and decays quickly. We've seen this before in previous elements; where we eventually stabalized it.

Also, it's important to know how numbers on the periodic table work -- what we label as 115, may not be the same "115" that Lazar is talking about. We label new elements sequentially by atomic weight and that's that. So is it possible that the 115 we synthesize that is unstable is NOT the same 115 he claims he had a sample of?

Absolutely. This is an argument of semantics, and in no way does an element with the moniker 115 have to be the same element that Lazar claims existed.

This is a simpleton argument, plain and simple.

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

There's plenty of evidence that these folks aren't being truthful and are messing with ufology. Hal Puthoff (Davis' former boss) was involved in the SERPO scam over a decade ago. A false story of humans travelling to Zeta Reticuli in the 1960s.

John Alexander also a former boss of Eric Davis at Bigelow's NIDS claimed well into the 2010s that the US Government were not interested in UFOs. He even said on ATS in 2013. [Which was long after Bigelow's AAWSAP contract in 2008].

My book, UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities, is based on an ad hoc group I formed decades ago to study the topic. Participants came from all services, several intelligence agencies, and aerospace industries. All members had very high security clearances. Contrary to popular mythology we found no ultra-secret organization lurking in the background.

See : www.abovetopsecret.com...

However Eric Davis [Alexander''s underling] claimed there was a UFO crash retrieval program in 1989 on C2C AM

...John Alexander gave him [Davis] his first job at NIDS when he [Alexander] was working for Bigelow

A UFO crash retrieval program was shuttered in 1989 but it's currently in hibernation, meaning everything is still out there, it's just a matter of getting it reopened. In order to do that, we need to convince the decision makers that it would be worth reopening, if we can show that our current science has caught up sufficiently to yield results.

The US military has a number of crash retrievals and they've been analyzed, but our understanding of physics, etc., wasn't advanced enough to make sense of the technology. The responsible agency therefore pulled the plug.


Text Summary of Interview

There is no need to mind read. Just read. There's more of course but that would take this thread way off topic.

originally posted by: EnigmaChaser
Ahhh yes. “Currently accepted” physical theories... do you see the hedge there?

If we are still talking about Lazar here, that hedge has nothing to do with Lazar. Lazar had no advanced theories, he mangled existing theories with misunderstandings and misuse of scientific terminology.

As far as your fantasy about secret labs having advanced theories of fundamental physics, very unlikely. They likely have advanced technology in the form of applications of existing fundamental theories, but I think you must be very far removed from fundamental science if you think they have different fundamental theories. I can't prove they don't, but it's very implausible. There are many ways they can take the theories we have and come up with advanced applications of those.

originally posted by: hawkguy
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Who's to say they haven't pumped all the money into exotic weapons? The hints are out there, this is just the wrong place to be looking.

Exactly. If I wanted to look I'd try to get a security clearance to see the 5000 or so secret patents that the public can't see.

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Macenroe82
a reply to: DrumsRfun

I'm with you my friend.
For 30 years little tid bits have been proven legit about Bob.

Either it really happened, or he should buy a lotto ticket cuz his predictions are batting 100.

Lazar said element 115 couldn't be made in a lab, that's why it's so ironic that people say the "discovery" of element 115 proves Lazar right, they don't even know what he actually said!

Science Behind the Fiction: Can we believe the Area 51 witness or was he a liar?

Lazar also suggested that Element 115 could not be synthesized on Earth, as it is simply too heavy. Lazar claimed instead that the substance could only be made in very large stars. Though the powers that be at S-4 had pounds and pounds of the stuff.

Despite his claims, scientists in Russia did succeed in synthesizing a material which fits in the appropriate slot on the periodic table.

No parts of that statement are untrue; 115 cannot be synthesized in a stable form as of now. Could it be eventually? Maybe, but the 115 we can synthesize is unstable and decays quickly. We've seen this before in previous elements; where we eventually stabalized it.

Also, it's important to know how numbers on the periodic table work -- what we label as 115, may not be the same "115" that Lazar is talking about. We label new elements sequentially by atomic weight and that's that. So is it possible that the 115 we synthesize that is unstable is NOT the same 115 he claims he had a sample of?

Absolutely. This is an argument of semantics, and in no way does an element with the moniker 115 have to be the same element that Lazar claims existed.

This is a simpleton argument, plain and simple.

It's so funny to watch you claim Lazar didn't say what he said. Where did Lazar use the word "stable" in this conversation? He did not say "it is impossible to synthesize a stable element that heavy here on Earth"

ROBER LAZAR KLAS TRANSCRIPT

The element, called 115, can be stored in lead casings much like this one [showing a lead circular container]. Lazar says the government has 500 pounds of it, and it cannot be made on earth.

Lazar: "It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth."

Interviewer: "At least right now."

Lazar: "I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The amount of....you essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it with protons if....atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount of power and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to come from a place where super-heavy elements could have been produced naturally.

You're basically making stuff up like Bob Lazar, and the other poster who claimed Bob Lazar talked about isotopes, when Bob makes no mention of isotopes. Real physicists are very particular about things like isotopes and language regarding the definition of an element like 115, so your entire line of questioning portrays as high a degree of scientific illiteracy as Bob Lazar himself displays, by showing you don't understand how element 115 is defined. It means 115 protons in the nucleus. It can have any number of electrons (within reason), and various numbers of neutrons, but when a physicist says we can't make element 115 it would mean we can't make a nucleus with 115 protons in it, that's it.

You're basically saying Bob Lazar said we could make an unstable form of 115 but not a stable form. Bob Lazar didn't say that, you're making that up so you can say Bob Lazar was right. Bob Lazar was wrong, he said we can't make element 115 on Earth, and we made it.

But no need to stay focused on just that one thing that Bob was wrong about, he was wrong about so many things about physics as this real physicist pointed out:

.A Physicist’s Critique of Bob Lazar

After reading an account by Bob Lazar of the “physics” of his Area 51 UFO propulsion system, my conclusion is this: Mr. Lazar presents a scenario which, if it is correct, violates a whole handful of currently accepted physical theories. That in and of itself does not necessarily mean that his scenario is impossible. But the presentation of the scenario by Lazar is troubling from a scientific standpoint. Mr. Lazar on many occasions demonstrates an obvious lack of understanding of current physical theories. On no occasion does he acknowledge that his scenario violates physical laws as we understand them, and on no occasion does he offer up any hints of new theories which would make his mechanism possible. Mr. Lazar has a propensity for re-defining scientific terms, and using scientific language in a confusing and careless way. For these reasons, I don’t feel that Lazar’s pseudo-scientific ramblings are really worthy of any kind of serious consideration.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

does this physicist pass your sniff test? just curious

reading this www.otherhand.org... and Im wondering if guy is a professional writer, physicist or both

a reply to: AcerM

Lazar only calls them aliens because using the words zionist nazi will get him killed. We all know iron sky is based on a true story, only difference is they are really polish jews and not germans and they build UFO's on the moon.

a reply to: Blue Shift

I don't think it's fair to say that it's been determined. But in essence any step towards any form of 'disclosure' is going to produce a certain level of perceived vindication for his story.

His story is very interesting - and there are people that corroborate elements of this story that have previously been and still ARE seen as 'debunked' by the wider Ufology community. So if my feet were held to the fire and I was forced to weigh in on him, I would probably say I believe him, though admittedly I have levels of frustration that are customary to any information within UFOlogy.

As always the devil is in the details - even official photos of downed craft produced by the pentagon wouldn't prove Lazar's story. The only thing that would, would be him showing the world a piece of the fuel source that he has time and time again lead people to believe he in possession of. And that's my biggest frustration, and is in my opinion, his biggest largest dis-creditor. But again there are obvious reasons why this wouldn't be shown to the world.

Here's the truth.

Firstly element 115 is real, it's was called Ununpentium it was the informal name is does not exist naturally on earth.

It was discovered in 2004 by a joint collaboration between JNDR, Russia and the Lawrence livermore lab but has recently been officially named Moscovium, and this is where Lazars story falls apart.

Moscovium lives and dies in a blink of an eye, given it's half live it could not power any sustained propulsion whatsoever, including UFO's-hell it would be like putting a teaspoon of fuel into a empty tank of a hummer and driving route 66-not gonna happen.

Believe his story or don't that's up to you, but i believe there are more holes in his story that a wedge of swiss cheese.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Just because we can't make element 115 stable doesn't mean a civilization with a billion years on us couldn't.

I believe in what the navy pilots and radar techs saw. After knowing what I do now I'm willing to bet our visitors have been here for a long time.

Are we in possession of a downed alien craft? I think it's possible.

a reply to: olaru12

Art Bell was entertaining as hell, but 99% of it was pure garbage. So, I wouldn't say everything went to hell, rather people are more skeptical nowadays and it's thanks to people like Art Bell that they are.

originally posted by: AcerM
a reply to: Arbitrageur

does this physicist pass your sniff test? just curious

reading this www.otherhand.org... and Im wondering if guy is a professional writer, physicist or both

His name is Tom Mahood and he has a real master's degree in physics, here is a link to his master's thesis:

Tom Mahood's Master of Science in Physics Thesis

Not only that, I read lots of papers by real physicists so I see the terminology and careful language they normally use, how the terminology is carefully defined, and he understands the terminology, the definitions of the words and how the principles of physics operate, so even if someone erased his degrees, other physicists could still read what he wrote and tell he understands a lot of physics.

Contrast that with Bob Lazar who even if someone erased some degrees, physicists can read his writing and tell that Lazar does not use the careful terminology that physicists use and has a mangled understanding physics in general, so he doesn't even know enough physics to get a bachelor's degree, much less a master's.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Well said. Too many idiots just believe anything.

There seems to be confusion among certain members on what Bob has or has not said about Isotopes and the creation of E115.

I think the best way to clear this up is to have a listen to the "Holy Prophet" himself.

a reply to: A51Watcher
He's kind of all over the map there in that interview, but that's an older Bob Lazar talking AFTER 115 was produced.

The younger Bob Lazar, before element 115 was produced, said element 115 could not be produced on Earth, and at that time he didn't say anything about isotopes. So of course after he's proven wrong, he's going to change his story and start talking about isotopes. That was the point of a video posted earlier in the thread, he changes his story, this one:

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
If you actually watch that whole Bob Lazar video instead of watching this chopped up edited version you would see the part where Bob Lazar states that this is how he THINKS the crafts work. This youtube channel is a joke.

originally posted by: mirageman
Well here is that video in full.

Please provide the timestamps where he says he THINKS this is how the craft works.....

Compare that where Bob explains how the craft works in detail, to his appearance on Joe Rogan, where he says he has no idea how the craft worked.

Bob changes his story and we are still waiting for a time stamp from Alien Abduct to tell us where Bob says what he claims about not being sure how the craft works like he said on the Rogan show, and now we have another example where once Bob was proven wrong about 115 being made on Earth, he changes his story to start talking about isotopes, something he didn't mention when he said 115 couldn't be made here.

Even in his more recent interview, he says they made an unstable 115, let's see what they make in the future, they should be able to make a stable 115. But the island of stability doesn't predict any entirely stable elements, it only predicts less instability, so nobody expects to find any perfectly stable elements even in the island of stability, they are all expected to decay. We don't know how long the half lives might be, and predictions for those are all over the place, but I've seen no predictions for stable elements in the range of 115, so it's not expected, maybe less unstable isotopes, but not stable ones.

Nah he said impossible to produce in any useable amount, even if we set every collider on the planet to the task 24/7.

As he said in the above video you can smash atoms together all day long and if you are lucky you might get a few atoms but not necessarily the stable variant you are looking for. Our current technology does not allow us to pre- determine the isotope variant created during the next atom collision run.

As to him changing his story, its actually him using different words which drives people nuts.

He addresses that here -

originally posted by: Kreeate

originally posted by: Crisis
Okay, such as?

Sure, I'll give it a go...

• Evidence of interstellar travel methods that are *partially made known for scrutiny and studied/assessed by mainstream science.

• Biological evidence of complex non terrestrial DNA, peer reviewed, verified, and publicly available.

• Open, global interaction with ET's, including limited public access in order for the public to access "hands-on" contact.

*partially, because this data might be sensitive.

If thats your threshold then I dont think we will prove it to you in our lifetime..

Even if ET's present themselves openly, and hold a press conference...

1. Since the interstellar travel would be advanced tech, unless ET decides to explain it to us, or gives us the tools/mechanisms to do it... AND if its not controlled and contained by the government for national security.. then that wont happen. Why would they give us limitless power when we still blow eachother up? What do we have to offer? How can we even understand it if we do get our hands on it?

2. Umm yeah.. so again... ET is just going to hand over their DNA for us to study... sure.. and even if we got it.. we would even know how to study it.. and thats assuming they even HAVE DNA...

3. Again... to an intelligence like that... were not even ants. Good luck with "public access" and "hands on" contact

If/when they are fully and completely revealed, its not going to be like interacting with Humans man... think about it. They will either ignore us, treat us like we treat animals, destroy us... or.. MAYBE try and modernize us.. and thats probably the least likely..

They wouldnt be OUR science project... we would be theirs

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Again.. youre picking apart Bobs words and missing the most important parts...

"It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth."

THAT heavy.. as in.. an element such as THE 115 he worked with.. which allegedly was 500 pounds worth, and has lasted a long time...

The.. THAT he is referring to.. is a stable isotope of 115.

Use logic, you cant be dismissive and still be grounded... every existence of any element is an isotope.

For all we know.. it could be 115 protons... and 300 neutrons for all we know... and we have yet to be able to make that here on earth.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
If thats your threshold then I dont think we will prove it to you in our lifetime..

And I'm completely okay with that. I'll stick with my required criteria.

Everyone arguing about the minutiae is pointless.

This whole Lazar story revolves around whether he actually worked on a recovered alien spaceship or not.

George Knapp claims he knows where the buried element 115 is and will maybe "go dig it up after Bob's gone".




We all want proof don't we?

Well why aren't sceptics and believers alike putting pressure on Knapp to take a TV crew with him?

Go dig this Element 115 up live on TV George!!!!

End the speculation forever. Reveal the truth.

Or are people scared he's telling lies?

originally posted by: mirageman
Everyone arguing about the minutiae is pointless.

This whole Lazar story revolves around whether he actually worked on a recovered alien spaceship or not.

George Knapp claims he knows where the buried element 115 is and will maybe "go dig it up after Bob's gone".

...
Or are people scared he's telling lies?

Was that video before or after Bob Bigelow figured out that Lazar was telling lies about his fake element 115, which Bigelow figured out was a commercial emulsive product? Apparently the "Zeta Reticuli Corporation" partnership between the Bobs to use the fake element 115 ended immediately after that. So couldn't Knapp just call Bigelow to find out where he could get the commercial emulsive product Bigelow said was Lazar's fake 115?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: mirageman
Truth is if Bob's story was real he has absolutely nothing but a story. Who's trying to prove him a fake? Oh!

Jacques Vallee noted Bob Bigelow sussed him out pretty quickly pretending he had the mysterious stable version of E115 but it was in fact industrial emulsifier.

See Forbidden Science 4