Never More Relevant Than Now

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: SuicideKing33

I'm not sure of your point.

A "democratic society" is not perfect. But it beats the alternatives as far as I can tell.

What's yours?

A republic like America should be

a reply to: Boadicea

Because it's just a little bit pertinent right now. We've been fed lie after lie and we've been groomed for it our whole lives.

If you really think you're immune id say you're less aware then you think.

Never said defenseless and hopeless. We are influenced and coerced heavily. You can argue semantics and what someone's core values are and I guess in your fantasy land good people don't break bad.

We are all more puppets than we would like to believe that was the whole point of the thread which you completely missed.

a reply to: SuicideKing33

We are all more puppets than we would like to believe that was the whole point of the thread which you completely missed.

Didn't miss a thing... just saying there's much more to it. Including the fact that we are not victims unless we allow ourselves to be. And you seem determined to convince people they have no choice, no defenses, no tools or weapons to protect and defend ourselves.

If you're really that worried about it, then why are you arguing against and belittling and minimizing my efforts to clarify these finer points, the whys and wherefores, and in the process prepare and arm the people with the knowledge, self-awareness and other tools to SUCCESSFULLY fight any such efforts?

Why are YOU so determined to undermine any effort to acknowledge and strengthen the tools and resources people have to protect and defend themselves???

We shall know them by the fruits of their labor...

a reply to: Boadicea

You are missing one of Bernays points.

Being part of a group is one of mankind’s core values. If the “group think” can be manipulated by outside sources, then one can be manipulated into believing and acting in ways that go against their other core values.

Because the core value of being part of the group verse being opposed to the group is more powerful than any other pre existing core values.

They use this group think to control the masses who otherwise could not be controlled in a more one on one approach.

The mob is much more easily manipulated than the individual. The individuals attachment to the mob generally assures that they go along with the mob mentality, regardless of any pre existing core values.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Boadicea

You are missing one of Bernays points.

No, not missing anything... merely expanding on the whys and wherefores of why it is and is not effective.

Being part of a group is one of mankind’s core values.

Not in and of itself. We are all part of lots of groups. We are all part of humanity. We are all part of a nation. We are all part of a family. We are all part of a community. We are all part of a race. We are all part of a profession. We are all part of a religious belief (even if we believe there is nothing to believe in).

Rather, the desire to be part of specific groups is simply a tool to achieve something else -- perhaps the protection of a group, or the resources of a group, or the approval of a group, or the echo chamber of a group, or the domination of a group... it's not just about being part of a group. It's about being part of a specific group for a specific purpose.

If the “group think” can be manipulated by outside sources, then one can be manipulated into believing and acting in ways that go against their other core values.

Sure, some -- perhaps many or even most -- can have their basic common values and principles tweaked and exploited, particularly by stroking and feeding the ego, and/or striking fear and panic in their souls.

But not everyone. This is why we have words like "defectors" and "dissenters" and "dissidents" and "apostates" and so on. There is a huge civil war in the Democrat party right now. Cancel culture is the latest battle front. Progressives have done their best to manipulate the "group think," and those with the eyes to see and the ears to listen are not being manipulated by the "group think" because it violates their core values and principles as Democrats.

Because the core value of being part of the group verse being opposed to the group is more powerful than any other pre existing core values.

No matter what group you belong to, there will be an opposing group. So it's about which group you choose to align with and want to be part of. It's about the motivation and desires in choosing the group you choose.

They use this group think to control the masses who otherwise could not be controlled in a more one on one approach.

Well, I'd say it's more about taking control of the education in the nation and dumbing down their students. Garbage in and garbage out, and this is what we get. It is more difficult to learn the older one gets, but the school of hard knocks will catch up with everyone, and give everyone the chance to learn better, and then do better.

The mob is much more easily manipulated than the individual. The individuals attachment to the mob generally assures that they go along with the mob mentality, regardless of any pre existing core values.

This is true. In addition to the dumbing down, many people are sheeple, and prefer to let others do their thinking for them. Some don't have the confidence in themselves or the courage of their convictions to say or do what they know is right. All such people are inclined to go along with the mob.

But not everyone. Many people know when something is going south and not only know they don't want to be part of it, they have the strength and courage of their convictions to walk away.

Why default to the former when we can champion the latter?

You can be a champion of whatever you want and think it has no effect, but that is incredibly naive. Look how many people jumped on wearing masks when the TV made them scared.

What about subliminal suggestion? Your conscious brain doesn't even pick it up. I guess that has no effect either.

To say you've studied this "in depth" is laughable almost like you're trolling.

Hmmm....a fellow "cynicist"......neat.