Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Then we have nothing to argue about.

TheRedneck

That makes a change

I would Imagine if HCQ is found to be effective and is in fact a game changer, doctors and nurses around the world will collectively sigh a breath of relief.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

That makes a change

A pleasant one for me.

I would Imagine if HCQ is found to be effective and is in fact a game changer, doctors and nurses around the world will collectively sigh a breath of relief.

I make no secret of the fact that I would love to see hydroxychloroquine treatment verified... it is a fairly safe drug with a long history of use and is pretty cheap to boot. I suspect that is why some people (like the OP) are trying desperately to discredit it. But the science will win out in the end. It will either be effective or it won't.

My issue is that these trials that are getting so much publicity are not performed using the same treatment that some doctors are claiming success with. Firstly, the treatment uses more than just hydroxychloroquine. Zinc is a vital part of that treatment, as are some other medications and supplements (I think it was in this thread that another poster detailed the treatment). Secondly, the success rates are reported to be with patients who had either just entered the hospital or who were newly experiencing symptoms. So far all of the trials I have seen promoted as discrediting hydroxychloroquine are performed using patients who are in the advanced stages and do not include zinc or the other medication/supplements. A few have actually administered known lethal doses of hydroxychloroquine. That is intellectually dishonest and IMO is as bad as someone like us (non-professionals) recommending drug use. Worse, actually, because the purpose is so obviously to prevent a treatment.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

At the other end of the spectrum I've argued with people on this site that early on when HCQ was mentioned as a possible cure to take it with a grain of salt, one member was adamant that if a family member of his was sick with covid he would march into the hospital and demand that they be treated with HCQ even if it went against the doctors recommendation. To the point they would threaten to use force to make it happen.

Anyhow it will all come out in the wash eventually. Personally I want this virus gone and i don't care how they do it as long as they do.

Florida teen received hydrochloriquine at home before dying of COVID-19 at hospital, report says

Oh gosh, they probably forgot the Zinc.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

or they gave him Remdesivir - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Warns of Newly Discovered Potential Drug Interaction That May Reduce Effectiveness of a COVID-19 Treatment Authorized for Emergency Use

fyi

Remdesivir is not recommended for the treatment of mild or moderate COVID-19 outside of a clinical trial.
Source: NIH (2020)


A randomized controlled trial by Wang et al (2020) shows that in hospitalized patients with severe COVID-19 infection, remdesivir is not associated with a difference in time to clinical improvement as compared with placebo. www.thelancet.com...(20)31022-9/fulltext

A randomized controlled trial (phase 3) by Goldman et al (2020) shows that in COVID-19 patients not requiring mechanical ventilation, there is no significant between-group difference in clinical status between a 5- and a 10-day course of remdesivir.

Is it falling apart?

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Florida teen received hydrochloriquine at home before dying of COVID-19 at hospital, report says

Oh gosh, they probably forgot the Zinc.

Or, if you had read past the headline...

Her mother, a nurse, and a man identified in the report as her father, a physician assistant, gave the girl azithromycin — an antibiotic being studied as a potential COVID-19 treatment — as a protective measure, the report states.

Azithromycin is an anti-bacterial, not an anti-viral.

But on June 13, the girl developed a frontal headache, sinus pressure, and mild cough. The family assumed they were the result of a sinus infection, the report states.

On June 19, the girl's mother noticed that she looked "gray" while sleeping. The girl was then given an unspecified dose of hydroxychloroquine — an arthritis and lupus drug some, including President Donald J. Trump, have touted as a possible treatment for COVID-19.

6 days after symptoms appeared, after noticing "gray skin"... which could be a sign of acute anemia. I have been warning about acute anemia with this virus for some time. It attacks the blood as well as lung tissue. That tells me the virus was already in her blood and she needed to have already been in the hospital.

It also states

The report does not state if the girl had a prescription for either drug.

ALL prescription medications are intended to be taken under a doctor's care. That's why they require prescriptions. We don't even know how much of either drug was given to her. Did she get a lethal dose? Did she have contraindicators for either medication? We don't know; all we know from that report is she was given two drugs by her parents, who apparently had a neural malfunction themselves as I would expect any medical professional to know better than to give unprescribed experimental drugs without consulting a doctor.

And all you can do is crow about how wonderful it is this girl died and focus on that one drug.

What is it? Why are you so dead-set against hydroxychloroquine? If I didn't know better, I'd think you had a serious monetary stake in keeping it off the market! Do you work for a pharmaceutical? If so, you should be thrilled that during his briefing yesterday, Trump did not mention hydroxychloroquine once.

Either that, or you heard Trump tout it once and you hate him so badly it thrills you to see people die after taking it. He did mention Remdesivir yesterday, though... is that one deadly now, too, since Trump mentioned it? Are you going to scour the Internet now looking for cases where people have died after using Remdesivir? Do you throw a celebration when people die from using drugs Trump mentions?

WHAT KIND OF MONSTER ARE YOU?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Southern Guardian

Azithromycin is an anti-bacterial, not an anti-viral.

Yeah, then? Covid-19 is a bacterial disease, not a virus. Gathering info, but i am not too much of a thread starter.

a reply to: Finspiracy

Covid-19 is a bacterial disease, not a virus.

COVID-19: COrona VIrus Disease identified in 2019.

It is a corona virus, named so because the virus itself resembles a crown or "corona" (at least in the minds of the researchers). Like any other virus, it is not actually "alive" but can still chemically enter a cell and hijack it to reproduce copies of itself. Bacteria are microscopic creatures, very much alive, which can cause sickness in host bodies. Salmonella, aka "food poisoning," is bacterial. Salmonella bacteria can survive stomach acid (unless you're like me and have stomach acid that could digest stainless steel) and then reproduce in the intestines. The sickness is from the wastes produced by the bacteria building up.

Most bacteria are actually harmless, even beneficial. We would have a hard time breaking down many foods without the aid of intestinal beneficial bacterial.

In contrast, no virus is beneficial.

The SARS-2 virus (the actual name of what we call COVID, WuFlu, Kung Flu, or my new favorite: the Democrat virus because it apparently votes Democrat) is a respiratory virus with a blood-destroying side effect. It tends to enter the body through the lungs, where it multiplies until it can break through the lung-blood barrier and affect the bloodstream itself. During replication, it produces proteins that can mimic iron in hemoglobin and replace it, making it impossible for the red blood cells to transport oxygen. The resulting sudden lack of oxygen (acute anemia) then causes any organs that are weakened with time or disease to fail, which in turn results in death. It can also cause severe pneumonia in the lungs in older and weakened people via a cytokine storm, which can itself be deadly. This pneumonia caused many people to be placed on ventilators early on when we were still learning about the virus, which actually helped the virus invade the bloodstream using pressure from the ventilator as a vehicle into the bloodstream.

Unless the virus accesses the bloodstream or creates the cytokine storm, it is otherwise very mild and even unnoticeable in many people. Early reports were that it was highly contagious; later reports, however, have indicated that transmission from children (who are typically asymptomatic) is actually rare. This leads me to believe the mechanism of communication is less dependent on a highly infectious nature than it is on a tendency to be cumulative in its infection rate. In other words, higher density populations will tend to show more serious infections than rural areas per capita, which is what is being observed.

That is from a layman simply watching the reports and understanding the mechanisms of infection. Medical research has progressed far beyond what little I know. Doctors now know much about this thing, including the fact that it is a virus, not a bacteria.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yep, you are correct...

Did my homework. Conclusion: I ate an online hoax. Hook, line and sinker.

It was not my intention to spread disinformation. I genuinely thought i was onto something but... I wasn't.

So for those reasons, i apologize.

a reply to: Finspiracy

Bah, we all make mistakes. I originally thought the virus attacked red blood cells, but it doesn't. It attacks lung tissue, but releases a protein that destroys the red blood cells.

As long as we can admit error, we'll always find the answer.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Azithromycin is an anti-bacterial, not an anti-viral.

the girl's mother noticed that she looked "gray" while sleeping. The girl was then given an unspecified dose of hydroxychloroquine — an arthritis and lupus drug some, including President Donald J. Trump, have touted as a possible treatment for COVID-19.

We're not talking about the other treatments she received as well. Not sure why you decided to deviate.

6 days after symptoms appeared, after noticing "gray skin"... which could be a sign of acute anemia. I have been warning about acute anemia with this virus for some time. It attacks the blood as well as lung tissue. That tells me the virus was already in her blood and she needed to have already been in the hospital.

ALL prescription medications are intended to be taken under a doctor's care. That's why they require prescriptions. We don't even know how much of either drug was given to her. Did she get a lethal dose? Did she have contraindicators for either medication? We don't know; all we know from that report is she was given two drugs by her parents, who apparently had a neural malfunction themselves as I would expect any medical professional to know better than to give unprescribed experimental drugs without consulting a doctor.

You're not a qualified physician Redneck. I'm really not interested in your own unqualified analysis or those of others on here on research papers. Get a qualified source.

What is it? Why are you so dead-set against hydroxychloroquine?

I'm not dead set against hydroxychloroquine. I'm against the false narrative being pushed along that it's a reliable treatment for this virus, when there's been no consensus, or solid evidence, that it is.

Why are you so deadset for it? Why are others here so deadset for it? Would have known about it before Trump brought it up? I think we both know that answer.

Cheers.

Change of tact attack the virus major defense system instead of the virus. less than $50 a shot can be used at any stage.

Within a week using the same logic of fast tracking remdesivir this drug should be given the all clear.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

We're not talking about the other treatments she received as well. Not sure why you decided to deviate.

Because a young girl is dead. I know, that don't mean one damn thing to you, but it does to me. You post a story where there's several errors being made and try to focus on one for some obvious political reason, expect to get called out for it.

You're not a qualified physician Redneck.

Neither are you.

As for "qualified sources," neither are the news anchors that wrote these biased pieces of populist gossip thinly disguised as news.

I'm not dead set against hydroxychloroquine. I'm against the false narrative being pushed along that it's a reliable treatment for this virus, when there's been no consensus, or solid evidence, that it is.

I might have been born at night, haus, but it wasn't last night. I've been around the block enough to know when they's yellow liquid running down my leg and someone's telling me it's rain, it ain't rain and they're full of horse manure.

Why are you so deadset for it? Why are others here so deadset for it? Would have known about it before Trump brought it up? I think we both know that answer.

I'm for continuing to listen to front line doctors who keep reporting success with the treatment, at least until something better comes along. I repeat: the treatment is more than just hydroxychloroquine. That's the big reason your little fairy tale report that started this thread is useless. Find a test that mirrors the treatment used and I'll look at it.

That's right... I will look at it. Me. I have enough common sense (and a quite sufficient background in science, thank you very much) to compare the parameters of the test with those from the doctors who report success. Based on the evidence I have seen, should I start experiencing symptoms that might be the Kung Flu, I would contact a doctor and discuss the possible treatments, including hydroxycholoquine. I don't need some two-bit wanna-be activist on an Internet forum with a bee up their butt over a four-year-old election that they can't seem to get over scaring everyone into not even pursuing what could turn out to be the best treatment we have available.

What you are doing is creating more panic where we already have quite enough. That biased article could literally cause someone else to die because they are afraid the best cure we've got will kill them. And you are promoting it! You might as well start telling people aspirin is deadly when used after heart attacks, or that insulin kills diabetics. You'll get the same result: more dead people.

You said it above... we're not doctors. If something better comes along, I'll champion it under a doctor's care. Until then, yes, I will jump on any bandwagon that seems to be saving lives. I don't want people to get all dead.

I ask again: WHAT KIND OF A MONSTER ARE YOU?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Because a young girl is dead.

And Hydroxychloroquine didn't do a thing.

Neither are you.

Yes, that's why a rely on sources and the opinions of qualified physicians, like Dr Anthony Fauci.

Fauci: Science shows hydroxychloroquine is not effective

I'm for continuing to listen to front line doctors who keep reporting success with the treatment,

Yet to continue to fail in referencing them on here, along with others Redneck.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

At the other end of the spectrum I've argued with people on this site that early on when HCQ was mentioned as a possible cure to take it with a grain of salt, one member was adamant that if a family member of his was sick with covid he would march into the hospital and demand that they be treated with HCQ even if it went against the doctors recommendation. To the point they would threaten to use force to make it happen.

And the number of times that has happened is..........................zero...

Hospital deaths are down 75% because they have worked on better treatments to keep people off ventilators, AND THAT IS THE KEY...You go on a ventilator and you are basically dead...

I don't even know what "against a doctor's recommendation" is with a drug that has extremely low side effects and has been used for 90 years...

I can high dose vitamin C too and people will say that it is "against a doctor's recommendation"

originally posted by: Southern Guardian

Yes, that's why a rely on sources and the opinions of qualified physicians, like Dr Anthony Fauci...

Be careful...he hasn't been very consistent has he...

I work with engineers that say all kind of crap and I say...you just pulled that number out of your ass... and they are like no I'm an engineer when we both Know the number came from their ass.

Though Dr Fauci has not been consistent I will say in the area of being hyper conservative he has...well most of the time..

a reply to: puzzled2

Remdesivir was developed in 2009, so it has a very short history. That said, it does appear to have shown some promise in treating corona virii which it was specifically designed to treat.

The biggest side effect issue seems to be liver malfunction. That's serious, so it would have to be tightly prescribed. It's also being tested in a 10-day treatment, so hopefully any liver damage would be temporary and treatable. It also interferes with azithromycin, which is used with hydroxychloroquine. That means its an either/or situation as to which treatment to use.

Part of me worries about Remdesivir... I simply don't trust medicine, any medicine. I consider them all as a type of poison that has to be used from time to time. I guess I have seen too many relatives die from over-medication. So when I look at a drug that has 75 years of experience as opposed to one that has 11 years of experience... yeah, I have an admitted bias toward the older drug.

Still, Medline+ and the NIH have some promising things to day about it. So I have to put that one in the "wait and see and hope it works" column for me. I really do hope it works well. At this point I am a bit unsure about remdesivir, though, until I see more information from front-line doctors. I'm sure that'll change as time goes on.

I will say this: if I thought I had the Kung Flu and a doctor I trusted told me they thought remdesivir was my best chance... I'd probably take it. I'm not going to demonize any potential treatment like some others might.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Xtrozero

I can high dose vitamin C too and people will say that it is "against a doctor's recommendation"

Probably as too much vitamin can cause severe health problems unless you go see Dr Nick riviera.

Just wondering what the actual concern here is?

Is the worry that hydroxychloroquine doesn't do anything or that it can hurt people?

If it's the concern about it hurting people then I can understand the seeming panic expressed by some here.

However, it should be noted that most of the concern expressed appears to be the medications effects on patients with LQTS. And yes, hydroxychloroquine is on the list of meds to avoid with LQTS, but then... so is zithromax which many of those very patients were treated with at the same time.

Just something to keep in mind, I'd think.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

And Hydroxychloroquine didn't do a thing.

Under self-administration? Of course not! We don't even know what the dosage was, or how long she took it. All we know from that piece of gossip is that it was given after she showed signs of acute anemia, and no doctor was consulted.

We also know that azithomycin was given earlier. How do you know it didn't cause her death? Because the popular drug to demonize this week is hydroxychloroquine?

Yes, that's why a rely on sources and the opinions of qualified physicians, like Dr Anthony Fauci.

Dr. Fauci is good at what he does, but he is not perfect. He also initially said the virus wasn't an issue, remember? He opposed closing travel from China early on, then later admitted he had been wrong.

I listen to what Fauci has to say as well, and I consider it in light of what other researchers are saying. You can worship him all you want; I understand he is one man, a very intelligent and capable man, but one man nonetheless.

Yet to continue to fail in referencing them on here, along with others Redneck.

You might notice something... I have not posted many supporting links when talking with you. I have when talking with others. There's a reason for that: you are not worth my time assembling and formatting links. Sorry to have to be so blunt, but that seems to be the only way you'll get it. You're not worth the effort.

Try showing some conscious reasoning rather than blindly following what CNN tells you, and that might change.

TheRedneck