Britain set to confront China with new aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth

a reply to: Ohanka

"Claims the carrier do not have any aircraft are simply incorrect."

ukdefencejournal.org.uk...

Check out the Defence Journal on the subject.

You, like many, didn't realise this is a myth, so many thanks for letting me clear that one up.

a reply to: Doxanoxa

Last i checked today is not 2020 not 2023, the fleet air arm has no fixed wing combat aircraft, and the carrier at present is a giant anti-submarine helicopter carrier. Which is pretty cool but hardly it’s full potential.

Personally i would’ve kept the Harrier IIs until the F-35 was avaliable, but that’s Cameron and Osbourne’s austerity program for you.

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: Bluntone22

If 20 anti-ship missals are fired simultaneously, only 1 has to find it's target.

The hardest thing about killing a ship is finding where to aim.
You need fairly accurate coordinates to fire missiles.

Tom Clancy wrote a book about submarine warfare in the South China Sea.
He saw this clash coming over a decade ago.

a reply to: Ohanka

I'd prefer it if the UK had a truly independent detergent but that's been lost to us, quite possibly a result of spend a third of our entire imperial wealth on WWII.

Whatever as a consequence the UK picked US planes to compliment the carrier (and Finnish engines to help power it, by the way).

The carrier is weak not until 2023, but for as long as it takes for the US to hand over a full complement of F35's to the Brits to land on board.

Which, in the case of the Gulf or South China Sea, wouldn't be very long I suggest.

It's the carrier which is strategic, not the aircraft, as you rightly hint.

Glad to see this. With the US and Brits in the South China Sea, China will back down. As for anti ship missiles, they have to make it through the defenses to be of any use. Good luck with that.

originally posted by: Ohanka
Our aircraft carrier will surely be useful with no aircraft and escorts that can’t engage surface targets & would struggle against submarines and aircraft.

The once mighty Royal Navy has become a joke. At least it can still beat Argentina, though largely thanks to the fact their navy sank in port due to lack of maintainence

A depressing state of affairs really.

Maybe Lend/Lease part 2?

We can start with a slightly used LHD that we can let go on a fire sale.

www.telegraph.co.uk... HMS Queen Elizabeth to be joined on maiden deployment by US Destroyer as Navy faces 'biggest test for a generation'

Initial deployment later this year of UK's new Carrier Strike Group is expected to alert China

HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, Britain's two new aircraft carriers, together in their home port of Portsmouth.

Britain's aircraft carrier is to be joined on her maiden deployment by a US ship as the navy faces its "biggest test for a generation"....

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Also China has many subs. It only one good hit to take down any ship. Hence the whole strike group.

Curious why you think that?

Everything I Have read says carriers alone are very hard to sink, the one time the US sank one of their own it was very hard.

The Chinese Have Nuclear capabilities. Not only could they sink a Carrier they could send the entire fleet into orbit.

Britain waving its latest penis extension is all this is. Let's hope it never gets to the stage where china drops its pants and starts waving back.

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
I agree with a show of force, but it should be tied to some hefty sanctions.

Sanctions would be great if we weren't dependent on China producing multitudes of essential items including medications, precursor chemicals and machine parts. Without those millions would die and the country would grind to a halt. Incredible that we have allowed ourselves to be chained to the Chinese dragon. Really got rolling under GHWBush.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Right some history about nuclear development, WE British were about two years ahead of the NAZI's (But they were catching up fast and had the resources we did not - note how the British KNEW what the Nazi's were up to with the Norwegian heavy water plant - and our development only stopped because of the lack of resources and fund's or we would potentially have had the nuclear bomb by 1943 or 1944, note the analogy to our development of the Jet Engine which had it not been for old men who could not see the potential of Jet engines for aircraft WOULD have meant we would have had jet fighters by the start of the war had they not been a bunch of arse sniffing public school boy's.

Now how did the American's get the plaudit's then, well it was all down to us sending our material's, our EXPERT's and our research to the US were they COMPLETED IT, before that they were probably about 4 years behind us, yes openheimer got the plaudit's but it was built on top of British Research and Development.

After that the US tried to stop even us Brit's from having our own Nukes, it was sadly British scientists among others whom leaked the secret to the soviets but they did so because they genuinely feared trigger happy US generals and politicians would opt to NUKE soviet Russia and so only by ensuring others had it also would peace have a chance.

There is some claim that the Nazis were further along than we think today and even a claim of a successful test of a SMALL nuclear device but if it is true then the experts must have been killed as they were then unable to reproduce it again.

the-wanderling.com...#:~:text=Contrary%20to%20the%20typically%20accepted%20historical%20facts%20there,the%20first%20in%20a%20seri es%20of%20three%20tests.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Huge URL's are always a problem and I don't know how to get ATS to properly display them, that said if you use the Quote function you can cut and paste the full URL into the address bar.

Sorry to break it to you but have you ever heard of Canzuk, it is a proposed alliance to form a new superpower alliance to police areas of the world for mutual protection by Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK, if it comes into being it will be an alliance with the third largest military budget in the world.

Dick waving indeed, I would not want to be the Chinese if it comes out in Aggression, Nukes or no Nukes.

Just on a side note there are rumours that we actually have a hell of a lot more Teranis unmanned fighter/drone aircraft than anyone realizes?.

Those are not just air craft carrier's they are drone platform's and only have to serve as refuelling stop's well out of range of enemy anti carrier missiles and detection for these much, much more advanced Cruise missile AND fighter/bomber replacement unmanned aircraft, and of course Teranis is old stuff now.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Huge URL's are always a problem and I don't know how to get ATS to properly display them, that said if you use the Quote function you can cut and paste the full URL into the address bar.

Use BIT.LY to shorten those links, it's really quick & easy - you need an account, but it's not an intrusive site & simply does what it says on the tin. Great post btw, exactly my thoughts & understanding too. The Nazis apparently did have infrared triggers which were exchanged by one of the fleet commanders for safe passage to Argentina (they were allowed to sail out in between heavy bombardment of the waterways they needed). Those triggers completed the bombs the Americans used on Japan at the final shot of the war. JP Farrell has done a lot of great research on this subject, well worth a comprehensive read...

a reply to: Smarties

You were not alone. =).

a reply to: LABTECH767

I think you seriously underestimate the Chinese. They could poison half the UK before we even knew we were at war. Joking aside. There are a lot of them. The Largest standing Army on the planet and no slouches either. They might not have the experience or military tech, ( Not as far behind as one might think) but they are fiercely proud and no doubt would fight to the end if push came to shove. I doubt they would just rollover. We would probably need to nuke them to defeat them and if it came to that then it's game over for everyone.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

No only a fool underestimates a potential enemy, they are cunning even with less advanced weapons namely firework's they once saw off a far more modern Imperial Russian army whom tried to invade China as the Tsar of the time had dream's of adding China to his empire.

They also beat the Russians back when Stalin tried to force his hand with them.

They lost BADLY to the Japanese though before the commies gained power but at that time China was fractious and the Japanese were not able to control all of it only some areas they could occupy, the Japanese also beat the Russians pretty badly during that same period but the Russians were willing to lose the men so the smaller Japanese force ended up being defeated in a disputed area forcing them to come to an uneasy truce (Soviet Japanese border dispute about 1935).

China is vast, Chinese are NOT all the same even the HAN whom are the majority are not actually all HAN at all but many that call themselves HAN are actually other peoples that adopted the HAN identity, the REAL HAN whom are still however the majority are renowned for there view of themselves as a superior human race to all other's, this is reinforced by there adherence to confusions ideal's (although those have been reinterpreted by the PARTY to replace family with Party and State).

They are ingenious at the speed they can build, adopt other peoples ideas and turn them into there own and showed an uncanny cunning in getting the greedy blind west to sacrifice itself and it's economy and job's by investing in China and giving them all there technology's and secrets in the process (as well as many of those corporations and company's educating there new Chinese staff), think of the Chinese like a Sith Apprentice (Sorry star wars lore the Sith learned all they could then killed there master to take his place).

However despite ancient China suggesting otherwise and the spirit of inventiveness having finally re-awoken there after being dead for at least 500 or more years they are comparatively less clever at inventing from scratch than there European counterpart's, better at retaining ideas though even they forgot how to make blast furnace despite having had then in the 6th or 7th century (water powered bellows the work's), one of there problems is they have this nasty habit of killing of there best scholars (I mean we had it as well it was called the dark ages and the medieval period), in there case this nasty habit began probably before Qin Shi Huang but his actions are a notable example, he had all the scholars of the conquered seven kingdoms (Empires and they were NOT Han but other peoples now gone? or integrated remember how many died building his wall, palace and tomb since the conquered were slaves) butchered saving only the doctors (Since he wanted to learn the secret of immortality) and the Astrologers (Since he wanted to know the future).

So no I do not underestimate them but I recognize they are definitely NOT the good guy, they need to be brought low regardless of the price before it is too late since they pose a very serious threat to the future of the rest of humanity and I do not understate that.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG, there are many decent human beings in China but they are ruled by an inhuman system and among them are many truly evil people, we could argue the same is true everywhere and indeed it is but unless the communist state is demolished and the damage done to the Chinese mindset through it's brainwashing is reversed they do indeed pose the most serious threat to global stability in the near to even medium term future.

Yes perhaps we should but out and let it play out as there will eventually definitely be a full war with India, China want's India's territory and the only way they can get it is by integrating India into there empire, the Indians however are inconvenient excess baggage for them.

China's take on communism is a very nasty one, even Stalin committed unspeakable atrocity's and the death toll from his reign over Russia may never be truly fully known BUT Mao was far worse to his own people, the destruction of teachers at the hands or party brainwashed student's, the massacre of farmers and mass starvation as he tried rabidly to utterly destroy China's history, it's identity and it's culture so that he could implant his own version of it as a mean's of control and it seems many in Chinas communist party are not only unrepentant but believe he was correct to do so.

Believe me letting them go un opposed is the worst thing that could ever be done.

But you know what, there are Chinese people I would love if I met them, I know this but the fact is there Party is evil, it is not true socialist and not even communist it is a form or imperial government were the chairman is the new emperor, communism the state religion so that makes there leader there God in that sense since they are officially atheist etc, I could nit pick but here is why I can not stomach them, leaving a child to be run over in the street and walking past her, the driver seeing her and deliberately running over the child.

Killing little girls in there hundreds of millions (perhaps even a billion or more - 50/50 it is going to be a boy or a girl if it's girl kill it since only boy's are desired by them due to Chinese traditions - you know Mao had syphilis and because a traditional Chinese doctor told him it would cure him the party would round up pretty young girls - children to ensure they were virgins for him to rape since it was supposed to balance his energy's and only virgins would do, a more scientific doctor whom later wrote about his actions tried to get him to stop - and treated him for various STD's - but he did not listen and even boasted of his sexual prowess.

Remember also the Chinese are the communist party of China's first and it's ongoing victim, unless they are members of the Party, the gangsters in charge.

Look how different the culture in Taiwan is, how more progressive and how much more they value life, liberty and freedom, they are the same race but are a world apart, they are what China could have been like except for the so called cultural revolution (Genocide and cultural vandalism more like, mao was just a bigger but also more intelligent pol pot when all is said and done).

If China could be saved, turned back into a HUMAN society, one that cared about human life and that chose it's leaders of its' own free will then I would have nothing bad to say about them.

That however is not going to happen any time soon (unless God grant's a miracle on that front).

a reply to: LABTECH767

98% Utter nonsense.

China has moved on since the days of paddy fields, straw hats and it's people flattened by tanks in Tiananmen square. Certain is a lot more forward-looking than most people could ever have imagined 30 years ago.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

So you are a cinephile I get you, that or you work for them or are Chinese yourself.

If you are NOT chinese why not go and live there for a while, travel around a bit there are places they wont let you go because they do not want the west to see how they treat people in those regions particularly ethnic minority's.

Hitler was forward looking you know, over the body's of everyone he did not want to be in that future?.

China is very much more like Nazi's than it is like Lenin or for that matter even the evil Stalin's ideal of communism.

You think they don't steal ethnic minority's organ's, don't forcibly sterilize ethnic minority's and then ship HAN in to colonize as the native population die off, sorry you obviously think a deadly snake from the sugar loaf mountains is a nice pet to have around.

Let it bite you then?.

You know though the local boatmen make some very nice snake meal's out of it and it tastes kind of like chicken.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
China has moved on since the days of paddy fields, straw hats and it's people flattened by tanks in Tiananmen square. Certain is a lot more forward-looking than most people could ever have imagined 30 years ago.

Um. Get out of the main commercial cities and China is poor.

China is a police state with revolting human rights and corruption based around the Communist Party who push warped nationalism and control. Don’t let the Chinese PR machine get you thinking China is a big fluffy rabbit spreading love. Ask a Tibetan, a Uyghur or a Hong Konger. Check out the forced sterilisations, forced labour and indoctrination.

a reply to: Smarties

Best way to deal with China is really easy..
Don't buy their crap .

There that sunk em ... no money

originally posted by: rigel4
a reply to: Smarties

Best way to deal with China is really easy..
Don't buy their crap .

There that sunk em ... no money

Why bother exporting? Just print the money. Actually, the vast majority of China's economic growth over the past decades is due to money printing, not due to exports.