No clemency for cross! War Memorial Cross must go!

Political Correctness gone nuts! This has been here for how many years? It offends someone? Where will it stop and people think that Christians are not being singled out?

This cross will stand and will not come down!



No clemency for cross, Council rejects transfer of monument, property!





The Mount Soledad cross must go, the San Diego City Council said yesterday.

The 16-year saga of whether the cross would stay on public land in La Jolla came to an emotional conclusion last night as the council voted 5-3 to reject a last-ditch effort to keep it in place.

The vote capped a six-hour public hearing that attracted 350 people, most of them Christians who urged the council to donate the cross and surrounding land to the federal government so it possibly could remain where it has stood since 1954.

But the cross now must be moved to comply with an injunction forbidding its presence on public land. Federal Judge Gordon Thompson Jr. issued the injunction in 1991, when he ruled that the cross violated the state Constitution's guarantee of separation between church and state. Thompson had left it to the city and the lawyers in the case to resolve the matter.

No clemency for cross

John 15:18-19
8 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
NIV

John 17:13-19
I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
NIV

Matt 24:9-14
9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
NIV


This is what is written so therefore it shall be so.


It is the price we must pay which is small in comparison to the one He paid.

again

So it is written so it shall be done!

Political Correct do gooders dont these people have anything better to do then disrespect the general population?
What is it with people ? Kids cant even sit on Santa lap anymore!
Whats next they want statues of soilders to be waving a white flag?

Originally posted by xpert11

Political Correct do gooders dont these people have anything better to do then disrespect the general population?

What is it with people ? Kids cant even sit on Santa lap anymore!

Whats next they want statues of soilders to be waving a white flag?

This is what happens when you try to give a little, then floodgate is opened and here is comes. All this because 2 people were offended. I personally cant believe that they will actually move it, if they do, things will get nasty real fast...

No assault on Christianity in this country? Hogwash.....

Well.....I have no idea WTH bible quotes are gonna get you.... ...nothing! You'll accomplish nothing with that. Personally, I don't understand what that cross is hurting by being there I do understand that there are many, many VETS that are not Christian, but I still don't see why it can't stay. Why can't they put up other religious symbols with it to represent the other faiths? That would be fair.

No assault on Christianity in this country? Hogwash.....

It isnt an assault on Christianity common sense is the big loser.
Is Christianity really being attaked in the USA or dose that idea come from the same place that liberals hate the world came from?

Originally posted by xpert11

No assault on Christianity in this country? Hogwash.....

It isnt an assault on Christianity common sense is the big loser.
Is Christianity really being attaked in the USA or dose that idea come from the same place that liberals hate the world came from?

Well I think you can answer that by knowing that it has been there for 30+ years with no complaint.

Oh Ed....
:::::::::::::::shakes head:::::::::::::::::

I don't see why it can't stay...but be realistic......not all of Americans are Christians.....how you like the memorial to have a large Pentagram over it, how bout a Star Of David, to represent "all" VETS? Bet you wouldn't like it hu!? Others feel that way too....try seeing someone else's view a bit, no one is "attacking" Christianity just because they aren't Christian and don't want a Christian symbol representing them as if they are.....you honestly can't see that!?...daaaaaaaaaaum!

EDIT...as to the 30 years, come on Ed...you know as well as I do that though there was supposed to be religious freedom in the country, it hasn't been that way...only now are things becoming the way they should be and other faiths can demand a little of respect and fairness too!


[edit on 3/16/2005 by LadyV]

Well I think you can answer that by knowing that it has been there for 30+ years with no complaint.

Edsinger I think your being a bit to senstive sure those who want the to move the cross are idoits but there not attacking the church they are attacking the right of people to pay there there respects to the fallen to bad if someone wants to lay a reef on Anzac day.

Originally posted by LadyV
Oh Ed....
:::::::::::::::shakes head:::::::::::::::::

I don't see why it can't stay...but be realistic......not all of Americans are Christians.....how you like the memorial to have a large Pentagram over it, how bout a Star Of David, to represent "all" VETS? Bet you wouldn't like it hu!? Others feel that way too....try seeing someone else's view a bit, no one is "attacking" Christianity just because they aren't Christian and don't want a Christian symbol representing them as if they are.....you honestly can't see that!?...daaaaaaaaaaum!

EDIT...as to the 30 years, come on Ed...you know as well as I do that though there was supposed to be religious freedom in the country, it hasn't been that way...only now are things becoming the way they should be and other faiths can demand a little of respect and fairness too!


[edit on 3/16/2005 by LadyV]

SO what next? Do we go to the graveyards and remove all the crosses that serve as headstones also? that way we offend no one when they even look?

NO, this is wrong, it is not offensive for the cross to be there at all, if you don't believe fine, pay your respects and move on.....


Many had asked if Christians are being singled out, well in this case they are because although the majority are Christians, the thought is to remove what hey consider a nice thing just so it doesn't offend the few.

It is mountains out of a molehill.........The problem as I see it is this is only the beginning, it started with the 10 commandments and it continues today, they will not give up and therefore they need to be stopped. It is not forcing anyone to be a Christian, but out of respect it should stay.

Oh for Pete's sake Ed...grow up....you don't see a tiny bit of difference between a "public" Memorial cross and a person's grave where they most likely left instructions on what they want sitting at their grave!? Get real!

Originally posted by LadyV
Oh for Pete's sake Ed...grow up....you don't see a tiny bit of difference between a "public" Memorial cross and a person's grave where they most likely left instructions on what they want sitting at their grave!? Get real!

And yet those buried at that memorial would probably overwhelmingly want the cross to stay.


How about since we want to change things for a very few, lets do it right then, how about all of these?











Just what is so offensive about this? Can we not respect the dead?




[edit on 17-3-2005 by edsinger]

I dont see the British or the Muslims in Britain trying to take this one down,,,





Upton St. Leonards


or here,







At Seaton Carew


no need for more at the point has been made....


Should we take down the 10 Comandments from the Supreme Court also?


members.tripod.com...







Depictions of Moses and the 10 Commandments are featured prominently in the Supreme Court Building; this proves that the founders had no intention of separating Church and State.



The Supreme Court has declared that the United States is a Christian nation.


Where does it stop? How about here also

Moses on the rear facade of the U.S. Supreme Court



Moses with the Ten Commandments in the rotunda of the Library of Congress




Moses with the Ten Commandments inside the Supreme Court's courtroom





I guess to be fair we must remove all things related to our heratige,

A stained glass window of George Washington praying, in the chapel in the U.S. Capitol





But if you do it you must be precise and remove ALL of them,

lets see

An excerpt from Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural speech carved into the interior of the Lincoln Memorial
















[edit on 17-3-2005 by edsinger]

[edit on 17-3-2005 by edsinger]




Mod Edit: to change an image to a link so that the thread format would be restored.

[edit on 18-3-2005 by kinglizard]

This cross will stand and will not come down!

Since the city council has decided to remove it, how do you figure on that happening?

Originally posted by Nygdan

This cross will stand and will not come down!

Since the city council has decided to remove it, how do you figure on that happening?

Well lets just wait and see, but this is California and Christians are not as high a percentage here....

Originally posted by edsinger
Well lets just wait and see, but this is California and Christians are not as high a percentage here....

So, what, they're 89 percent as opposed to 93?

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by edsinger
Well lets just wait and see, but this is California and Christians are not as high a percentage here....

So, what, they're 89 percent as opposed to 93?

No I would say less than 50%

Where in the world do you get your figures from?

The vast majority of people in california are christians.


Oh, wait, you mean that they're not 'true christians', right? Likein, they think differently on religious matters than you, right?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Where in the world do you get your figures from?

The vast majority of people in california are christians.


Oh, wait, you mean that they're not 'true christians', right? Likein, they think differently on religious matters than you, right?

Well lets look at that a minute, SF, LA, SD all of these are some of the most liberal cities in the nation.

50% 60% who knows but it is a hell of a lot less than say Indiana or Kansas.

Originally posted by edsinger
Well lets look at that a minute, SF, LA, SD all of these are some of the most liberal cities in the nation.

You do understand that being a 'liberal' does not mean that you are not a christian right? There are very liberal people who worship christ as saviour.

50% 60% who knows but it is a hell of a lot less than say Indiana or Kansas.

Honestly. Try 80 percent as a lo estimate.