Weird Argument about removing statues

a reply to: ketsuko
They told you why, what they did and what they expect , it's you who is being forced by yourself to Cape for them and I don't know why.

a reply to: Spider879

N ow we need to destroy all relgious iconography.

Because Jesus fled to Egypt ... nevermind that Egypt was another part of the Roman Empire and full of people of all kinds at that time, not a monolith of just blacks. It would have been easy for anyone of any type to blend in there.

a reply to: Spider879

They've also vandalized and destroyed statues of black union soldiers.

It is a cultural revolution akin to what happened in China. Be careful what you wish for.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

They've also vandalized and destroyed statues of black union soldiers.

It is a cultural revolution akin to what happened in China. Be careful what you wish for.

Again , if I must say so repeatedly I'm not in agreement which destroying anything, some folks are anarchist like that, I'm saying put them in their historical context..and call it a day.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

They've also vandalized and destroyed statues of black union soldiers.

It is a cultural revolution akin to what happened in China. Be careful what you wish for.

Again , if I must say so repeatedly I'm not in agreement which destroying anything, some folks are anarchist like that, I'm saying put them in their historical context..and call it a day.

We'll erase all your history; we'll erase all your culture. We'll replace it with our own preferred version. Things still suck. We still don't feel good about ourselves. So the day will come when we'll just erase you.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

They've also vandalized and destroyed statues of black union soldiers.

It is a cultural revolution akin to what happened in China. Be careful what you wish for.

Again , if I must say so repeatedly I'm not in agreement which destroying anything, some folks are anarchist like that, I'm saying put them in their historical context..and call it a day.

We'll erase all your history; we'll erase all your culture. We'll replace it with our own preferred version. Things still suck. We still don't feel good about ourselves. So the day will come when we'll just erase you.

As to the history of African and African descendant folks in America, that have already largely been done already, hence the lack of knowledge and understanding as to the true reasons behind those statues/monuments ,yet I did not call for their destruction only what they truly meant, and the commissioners of those statues/ monuments, told us as plain as day why they were there, is John Brown my hero/ our hero or no hero at all..after all southern heritage and resistance .
youtu.be...
As to why history is so complex and need to be in context pls klik here^^^ Mohammed Ali's badassed Irish American ancestor, or name sake, the original Cassius Clay, from a slave owning family who became a gut slicing abolitionist ...that's southern pride and heritage to me in proper context..yes such men existed.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: cognizant420
a reply to: SaturnFX

Call them rebels if you want. But a lot of them southerners thought of them as heroes. Maybe not all sure but was enough to get some statues put up

Sure, lots of people think rebels are heros
No doubt Osama Bin Ladin has plenty of people back in his home that see him as the hero of the story.

Point is, the US won...so its weird when public tax paid dollar areas have statues of traitors erected to begin with.
What if your city hall erected a statue of the unibomber...wouldn't make a lot of sense. Sure, some people may see him the hero...but since when does that count.

If we use that criteria, what about the Viet Nam War memorial. We didn't "win" that one. Does that one get taken down about 11:15 or do we need to reschedule so as to rest up from the 19th?

The Viet Mem is soldiers names who died. How weird would it be to instead have a politician or like William Westmoreland who pushed and commanded the US going into Vietnam as a statue to remember the greatness of that war (police action technically) as that would be the more relevant comparison.
And that would be equally as stupid...and hell, that is at least still siding with the US.
The idea of rebel commanders and the like with statues is like exactly having statues of nazi generals in the US..or any other failed nation we defeated.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: SaturnFX

People keep using the word treason to describe the South during the Civil war. One would think those living then would have said something about that, yes? They kept Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederacy in chains at Fort Monroe for 2 years after the war debating what to do about him. Fact is they could not make a legal case for treason which is why no one was ever charged with it after the war.

They did hang the commandant of Andersonville prison camp even though he had no food to give his own soldiers, never mind the thousands of prisoners. After Sherman swept through Georgia starvation was the rule for everyone in the South. They hung a man for what was essentially Union wartime strategy.

A lot of hand holding and not wanting to martyr Jefferson. I think they made a good call, but all they had to do was simply point out what treason is in order to hang him.

trea·son
/ˈtrēzən/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

They literally overthrew part of the country. Now, Jefferson himself I am not fully sure of, he might have simply took the mantle but the idea itself wasn't his and he was just a pawn who took the hat of leader.
The north and south didn't want to prolong things and trying people for treason after surrender, though perfectly legal, was a bad idea that would have fostered...yep...more rebels.
Best to show the leadership bending the knee to the union and squash all further attempts.

I think the whole erasing history thing isn't meant as you are removing evidence of the past so oh no we will forget what occured.

I think it is more the fact that by Civil War times, Americans no longer believed in hunting down and killing witches (of course the Brits had the most recent trial for witchcraft outside Muslim and African nations in the 1960s or 70s and I think she was found guilty too lol) but they didn't go burn down Salem.

The Indians today or the Americans in the 18th century didn't and don't believe in scalping people and wearing their skin as a trophy and not even as a territorial thing but just because the Indians were very violent with neighboring tribes but we don't go burn down Taos or Montezuma's Castle.

The Maya took any foreigners and their own children and killed them in Mass sacrifices. But we don't go use Teotihuacan AND Chichen Itzá as a quarry.

The thing is very real people came before us and because these statues are like the examples, hundreds of years in between us, people feel they have any right to take them down or even cast a vote. We don't. The people built a statue because of what they believed at the time and they did so in iron or bronze or copper or marble because they intended to honor someone important in their time and culture for centuries if not for all time. Who the hell had the right to say we must reevaluate their mentalities and edit anything which doesn't still hold true. 100 years between two people even in the same country those will be totally different people as far as beliefs. Night and day. They put statues up as a token of appreciation meant to announce to the future hey this guy or gal did something we appreciated. Please just acknowledge that or don't, walk on by no biggie. But we have done his commemoration in statue form because of the audience and the time it will last. We don't get to go erase their monuments for any reason.

They chose a piece of land and a cause to honor and that is that. We are talking flawed multi faceted individuals. No statues of a copper tree with a hanging black person or two in marble.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

If the statement is from the obelisk, that's not a statue of one of the generals or the conquistadors, of Washington or Jefferson, or Columbus, or any of the other figures who have been either torn down or vandalized lately.

Did that get torn down? If not why?

But the intended symbolism behind it is the same..know your place, and Jefferson Davis himself much to his credit , warned against resurrecting the flag or build monuments to the Confederacy, but Naaw they were not getting that.

So is it possible there are statues that are not monuments?

Is the PIeta a monument? What about David? Are those monuments? A fountain in the square with leaping horses ... are those monuments?

And when is something a monument and when is it a memorial? Is there a difference? Does it bother you that people in the south fought for their land and families, not because they had slaves, and that those families still mourn and want to remember their dead? Should those memorials be torn down for that?

In the end, we are supposed to all be Americans, and it's a painful memory for all of us. If it wasn't, you'd never get white folks kneeling to you and washing your feet now. But if you want to erase those reminders that make us all uncomfortable, be my guest. I'm perfectly content to forget all of it and never, ever feel like I need to excuse any of black man's bad behavior for any reason ever again.

Wait...huh? Are you actually conflating "black man's bad behavior" with past slavery in the US, and furthermore, "excusing" said behavior due to said history?

I feel like I must be reading this wrong...

Angry mob in Madison pull down abolitionist staute, assault senator.

So one of the BLM leaders in Madison followed a man into a restaurant with a bullhorn and baseball bat and got arrested for carrying it that far.

After that, the mob tore down the statue in front of the state house who was an abolitionist (no black people in the sculpture to be angry about), and then when they noticed a person taking a picture, they assaulted him. Turns out it was a passing democrat senator who just wanted to take a picture of the mostly peaceful protest.

He managed to walk a little way after the 8 to 10 people who jumped him left off before collapsing. They had to call an ambulance. He has maybe a concussion along with the obvious black eye and sore neck, ribs, etc., from getting punched and kicked in the mostly peaceful protest.

To say nothing of having torn down an abolitionist statue.

a reply to: dogstar23

Oh yeah, you're definitely reading it wrong.

My point about the bad behavior is that when a black man does something like murder, very often people will say "the system made him do it" so it's not really his fault.

So if they're now doing their level best to erase it all, then we can forget "the system" and with it we can forget that excuse. If there is no system, there is no excuse. The next time a black man murders, he did it because he made the choice to do it and not because "the system" made him do it. They erased that system, remember?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
I've never understood the claim that if you remove a statue, it erases history.
I find that funny, even hilarious.

www.forbes.com... 898
These are rough statistics, but probably close enough:

-- Eleven percent of survey respondents have never traveled outside of the state where they were born.
-- Over half of those surveyed (54 percent) say they’ve visited 10 states or fewer.
-- As many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane.
-- Forty percent of those questioned said they’ve never left the country

So you are telling me a statue of Robert E. Lee in Alabama will erase history for someone in Utah, that will likely never travel there, or ever see it?

yes I will keep posting till the lights go out

You are being naive. When muslims go in and take over a region they blow up any trace of that civilization.
This is a war and they are attacking. Doesnt matter if it will erase history.
They are attacking. You have the soldiers in the streets removing statues, then you have the ones who infiltrated higher positions like aoc.

They learned a long time ago you cannot attack American with traditional weapons.
They are using out side of the box attacks and Americans are sitting their oblivious.