Jane Elliott on what everyone can do to fight racism

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Gryphon66

I believe you aren't starting a conversation in good faith that's why. You presume much so we'll start on a good foot or not at all.

So you can't give any examples of racism against White people? That seems pretty basic to your statements, comments, etc.

Would you say your attacks on the OP above are "in good faith"?

I didn't presume anything. You made claims about racism affecting everyone. I asked for any evidence at all.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're making implicit claims, so I'd like to see the evidence.

Lets start here, what claim am I implying that you would like to see evidence for?

Why not start with the parts of my post that end in question marks?

Why doesn't the Op do that? Jin had a whole list of them ending with question marks...

a reply to: KnoxMSP

Perhaps you have some specific definition of racism ... since you don't see any examples in America in the last 40 years.

Why don't you share what you mean by the word? Since what you're saying seems fairly disingenuous otherwise.

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're making implicit claims, so I'd like to see the evidence.

Lets start here, what claim am I implying that you would like to see evidence for?

Why not start with the parts of my post that end in question marks?

Why doesn't the Op do that? Jin had a whole list of them ending with question marks...

Why don't you let Jin speak for themselves?

I don't think they need your help.

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Jaellma

Show me where I sidestepped. I answered everything I could. Funny, in a thread I asked people on what they can do to help fight racism, hardly anyone has anything salient to say but throw barbs back at me.

Tell me, what have you done to help in your cause on the fight against racism?

Jin listed them back out for you, and you failed to address all but one. I am not doing the work for you, in your thread, smdh. Keep up, homie.


I haven't seen any racism to fight. I grew up poor in Florida. We were all afraid of the 5-0, and we all went to the same bbq's. I saw some prejudice from all sides, but never any real racism. People around me from all walks had all kinds of careers, and the white kids and black kids turned into eff ups at equal rates. Maybe I have been blessed for my nearly 40yrs, but I just don't see it.

That's fine and dandy. Not knocking your hard knock life, bud. I understand you had a rough life and whatnot, did juvee and such. But for someone who recently said your wife told you Ahmaud should have run through yards and jumped fences to escape those barbarians and still had nothing more to say when it's clear now he didn't stand a chance, sure rings a bell with me. Do you still feel he could have done that given the circumstances?

Anyway, for someone as yourself who has been in the trenches and been around people of all colors, races, backgrounds etc, I find it peculiar you have nothing to add to the thread except ridicule.

originally posted by: Jaellma

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Jaellma

Show me where I sidestepped. I answered everything I could. Funny, in a thread I asked people on what they can do to help fight racism, hardly anyone has anything salient to say but throw barbs back at me.

Tell me, what have you done to help in your cause on the fight against racism?

Jin listed them back out for you, and you failed to address all but one. I am not doing the work for you, in your thread, smdh. Keep up, homie.


I haven't seen any racism to fight. I grew up poor in Florida. We were all afraid of the 5-0, and we all went to the same bbq's. I saw some prejudice from all sides, but never any real racism. People around me from all walks had all kinds of careers, and the white kids and black kids turned into eff ups at equal rates. Maybe I have been blessed for my nearly 40yrs, but I just don't see it.

That's fine and dandy. Not knocking your hard knock life, bud. I understand you had a rough life and whatnot, did juvee and such. But for someone who recently said your wife told you Ahmaud should have run through yards and jumped fences to escape those barbarians and still had nothing more to say when it's clear now he didn't stand a chance, sure rings a bell with me. Do you still feel he could have done that given the circumstances?

Anyway, for someone as yourself who has been in the trenches and been around people of all colors, races, backgrounds etc, I find it peculiar you have nothing to add to the thread except ridicule.

I know what my 20-something year old self would have done, and that is haul @$$ anywhere. I have ran from people, and the police, both guilty and not guilty of things, so I am just giving my perspective from my life growing up, and the people I grew up with, and what we would do in that situation.

I knew when I was somewhere I wasn't supposed to be, and I got and still do get profiled despite being white. My thing is it isn't a race thing. It is a presentation thing. I can change my appearance and have people treat me differently, but I choose to be me, and have my beard, and tats, and backwards hat, and they can profile me, until they get to know me and realize I will keep it 100 with you all the time.

I see oppression for sure, but it doesn't choose a skin color.

a reply to: Jaellma

Maybe it's because in one of those seminars I mentioned (required by work), they listed a bunch of things. We were supposed to arrange ourselves in the room according to how many of the statements were true. They were a bunch of statements that were supposed to sort all the white folks to one side and all the black folks to the other side to illustrate how bad racism and prejudice are and white folks just don't get it.

Thing is that since I grew up poor and was bullied through grade school, many of those statements applied to me.

So I wound up on the wrong side of the room, and I wasn't the only one, and there were black colleagues also on the wrong side.

Society isn't as clear a picture as people want to project, but that doesn't stop the endless lecturing about how no one can possibly understand ... I don't know. Since I identified with most of their dividing statements, clearly I had some idea, but that's not good enough.

Then trying to talk with black colleagues about living circumstances and growing up. It turned out we had a lot in common because as mentioned, I grew up poor, but no matter how in common it was ... they all insisted that it was just totally different. I guess that was because I was white because I don't see how the experience of only growing up with one TV for the entire family that we all had to share and no cable is any different no matter who you are (yes, a topic), but they insisted my experience of it was different and the way my family shared it had to be too.

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Jaellma

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Jaellma

Show me where I sidestepped. I answered everything I could. Funny, in a thread I asked people on what they can do to help fight racism, hardly anyone has anything salient to say but throw barbs back at me.

Tell me, what have you done to help in your cause on the fight against racism?

Jin listed them back out for you, and you failed to address all but one. I am not doing the work for you, in your thread, smdh. Keep up, homie.


I haven't seen any racism to fight. I grew up poor in Florida. We were all afraid of the 5-0, and we all went to the same bbq's. I saw some prejudice from all sides, but never any real racism. People around me from all walks had all kinds of careers, and the white kids and black kids turned into eff ups at equal rates. Maybe I have been blessed for my nearly 40yrs, but I just don't see it.

That's fine and dandy. Not knocking your hard knock life, bud. I understand you had a rough life and whatnot, did juvee and such. But for someone who recently said your wife told you Ahmaud should have run through yards and jumped fences to escape those barbarians and still had nothing more to say when it's clear now he didn't stand a chance, sure rings a bell with me. Do you still feel he could have done that given the circumstances?

Anyway, for someone as yourself who has been in the trenches and been around people of all colors, races, backgrounds etc, I find it peculiar you have nothing to add to the thread except ridicule.

I know what my 20-something year old self would have done, and that is haul @$$ anywhere. I have ran from people, and the police, both guilty and not guilty of things, so I am just giving my perspective from my life growing up, and the people I grew up with, and what we would do in that situation.

I knew when I was somewhere I wasn't supposed to be, and I got and still do get profiled despite being white. My thing is it isn't a race thing. It is a presentation thing. I can change my appearance and have people treat me differently, but I choose to be me, and have my beard, and tats, and backwards hat, and they can profile me, until they get to know me and realize I will keep it 100 with you all the time.

I see oppression for sure, but it doesn't choose a skin color.

I understand white people are profiled too. No doubt. I just don't see many white people in suits and briefcases being profiled but I can damn sure find many black people in suits and briefcases being profiled. You catch my drift? While you may be different, others can't say the same.

I see oppression for sure, but it doesn't choose a skin color.

I disagree. It may not be as overt as it was back in the day but it's still covert in many ways.

originally posted by: Jaellma


I understand white people are profiled too. No doubt. I just don't see many white people in suits and briefcases being profiled but I can damn sure find many black people in suits and briefcases being profiled. You catch my drift? While you may be different, others can't say the same.

In 2020? Man, I don't think so. I don't see too many dudes in suits getting profiled at all.

Just as many of my black friends were prejudiced, as my white friend were. Prejudging is not the same as racism. I had many uncomfortable moments being prejudged as the only white dude in a lot of situations, believe me. I have never had any person of any skin color tell me their race is superior to others.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Do I really need to? Google is only a click away. Now, granted it would be a much smaller comparison.

Yes racism concerns and effects everyone, it is right now regardless of the event surrounding protest and to an unfortunate greater effect, riots

So in good faith and honoring the thread, what have you done to combat racism?

a reply to: Jaellma

Ah yes that thread. Why didn't you just post it and not reply to me?

Regardless, that was the action of kneeling being and act of cowardice. That's not a hard concept to grasp.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Gryphon66

Do I really need to? Google is only a click away. Now, granted it would be a much smaller comparison.

Yes racism concerns and effects everyone, it is right now regardless of the event surrounding protest and to an unfortunate greater effect, riots

So in good faith and honoring the thread, what have you done to combat racism?

Do you need to? Nope. If you had viable examples you'd be glad to post.

Yes, that vague equivocation is the real problem here. Racism affects everyone translates to racism affects no one.

I find your use of the phrase "in good faith" ironic, but, nonetheless: I work in small circles. Most of my combatting racism is face-to-face on an individual basis. I do contribute to groups that work against racism and homophobia, groups that work to help the homeless, adult literacy, etc. etc.

Now, having acted in "good faith" why don't you share some of those easily-Googled facts for racism against Whites?

originally posted by: Jaellma

Nice try but tell that to the multitude of innocent black children who are now asking "why do they hate us so?"
As a parent, where do you start to explain that if the question came out of the blue?

My children went to an all white school and that question came up, so its

not only a question of race

It's unrealistic to let children to grow up believing they are the center of the

universe, so I told them that haters will always hate and they have to grow

up knowing their own value is not what others try to put on them.

They are living in a world where not everyone is going to like them and they

in turn are not going to like everyone.....and thats OK, so chose your friends

wisely.

Their innocence is gone in a flash and it's welcome to reality for them. A damn shame but reality.

Innocence gone? thats a bit of a stretch.......

Reality is your best friend everything else is illusion!


Edit: realising as I live in the UK things may be slightly different to the US as we

have laws in place preventing racial disparities.

a reply to: Gryphon66

www.google.com...

How does one work against racism? Are you part of this mysterious club too that gets to lecture folks on how to not be racist?

I stand corrected.

You did supply one example.

Carry on.

a reply to: Gryphon66

That's it then?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Gryphon66

That's it then?

Absolutely. You’ve proven one example of a racist attack on White people. That’s all I asked for.

Very kind of you.

a reply to: Jaellma

Thank you so much for tipping your hand. I knew it would come out eventually.

You have racist thoughts, by your own admission. To justify this, you make this absurd claim that there are levels. See, it's pretty cut and dry. You either believe that one race is superior to others, or you don't.

Further to this moral justification you're dealing with, add on that MOST are racist!?!?

a reply to: eletheia

No, it's not. As my son spent most of last year being bullied, that question came up in our household quite often. As you did, we had to reinforce that not everyone in life is going to like you and it's a mistake to try to make everyone like you. Nothing says you can't be pleasant to others; you should, but you can't bribe them into liking you or appease them into liking you, either.

Back to the nominal topic here, the thoughts of Jane Elliot on dealing with racism:

From the front page of her website:

Her mission: One Race

Jane Elliott, internationally known teacher, lecturer, diversity trainer, and recipient of the National Mental Health Association Award for Excellence in Education, exposes prejudice and bigotry for what it is, an irrational class system based upon purely arbitrary factors. And if you think this does not apply to you. . . you are in for a rude awakening

So Ms. Elliott (who charges for her services) seeks to end racism by imposing “One Race” ... thereby eradicating much if not all of the worlds rich diversity in culture and ethnicity.

Who would want that?

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