Would Lethal Force by Authorities Stop Riots and Murder Epidemics.

Saturday, May 30, 2020

I can't find a definitive answer in any online publication, so I'll pose the question here in "Skunk Works". First, read this these 2 paragraphs:

“When the looting starts, the shooting starts,” Trump had written in a tweet that was quickly flagged by Twitter as violating rules against “glorifying violence.” Trump later said his comments had been misconstrued. “Frankly it means when there’s looting, people get shot and they die,” he said.

Trump, in his tweets, borrowed a phrase once used by former Miami Police Chief Walter Headley in a 1967 speech outlining his department’s efforts to “combat young hoodlums who have taken advantage of the civil rights campaign.” In the speech, Headley said his department had been successful “because I’ve let the word filter down that when the looting starts, the shooting starts.”

Source: www.pbs.org...

Shortly after being elected, President Trump offered to help Chicago reduce it's ungodly murder rate by sending in the military to "take out" a few of the gang-leaders. Chicago mayor Rahm Emmanuel didn't want any help. (72% Murders go unsolved. Police know who 80% of the shooters are.)

After reading the President's Tweet this weekend about sending in the military to stop the riots, if the Democrat Governor of Minnesota requested it, it got me to wondering....

"If a few of the people committing violence (riots / murders) in a city are severely injured or killed by the U.S. military, upon orders from the President, will the riots and murders be reduced?"

Have their been any studies conducted to see if Riots -or- Murder Epidemics (in the U.S.) have been successfully stopped, by lethal force from authorities?

What about OPINIONS from ATS members? Do you have one on the subject?

-CareWeMust

originally posted by: carewemust
Saturday, May 30, 2020

I can't find a definitive answer in any online publication, so I'll pose the question here in "Skunk Works".

Have their been any studies conducted to see if Riots -or- Murder Epidemics (in the U.S.) have been successfully stopped, by lethal force from authorities?
-CareWeMust

Well, lethal force from authorities sure as hell starts riots...FFS.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: carewemust
Saturday, May 30, 2020

I can't find a definitive answer in any online publication, so I'll pose the question here in "Skunk Works".

Have their been any studies conducted to see if Riots -or- Murder Epidemics (in the U.S.) have been successfully stopped, by lethal force from authorities?
-CareWeMust

Well, lethal force from authorities sure as hell starts riots...FFS.

Then it might work to stop them as well.

Thanks for your input, smurfy.

a reply to: carewemust

Wouldn’t using the US military (as opposed to a state’s own National Guard) against US citizens on US soil be a direct violation of the posse comitatus statutes?

Especially if those actions resulted in the injury and/or death of those citizens?

Isn’t one of the tactics employed by totalitarian states the use of its military against its own people?

Is this what you are, albeit indirectly, advocating?

What do you think would be the reaction in the US population at large once everyone begins to realize that their own government has authorized the use of deadly military force against potentially any one of them?

How should. Anyone calling themselves a “patriot” respond when confronted by such a betrayal by their government?

a reply to: carewemust

Simple answer is no. And also why would one even entertain that idea?
Am I now living in commie Russia?
All that would do is piss the people that are not looting and are well armed to go defend our country from tyranny.
It is our right and duty to do so.

I'm thinking thats a result desired by those financing, giving orders and organizing the instigators who are turning what should be peaceful protests into mob mayhem.

At worst they get CWII but if that does not gin up they get further draconian controls on the populace under guise of "safety"

Lethal force not good idea - everything else short that yes should be used to quell protest usurpers and agitators but not protests themselves which we all have a right to do.

a reply to: carewemust

Not sure.

However I did find a very interesting video of who might be behind this. General Stanley Chrystal!

Not only does this video explain his job as an internet psyop specialist it shows some of the organizations in Minnesota and a woman coming right out and saying they are training people to get out at a moments notice and "spread the fire"!

If anyone wants to do a thorough research into this, knock yourself out! If this young lady knows this then I am quite sure Trump is keyed in.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

Americans are pretty much complacent about Government Actions. They were told to stay at home, and did so. Told to wear masks, and did so. Government officials tried to overthrow the President of the United States. The U.S. citizenry shrugs their shoulders.

If a few are killed to stop mass violence, most of the community might thank the military.

Especially so when you consider that most home and health insurance policies don't cover damages incurred during civil unrest.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: carewemust
Saturday, May 30, 2020

I can't find a definitive answer in any online publication, so I'll pose the question here in "Skunk Works".

Have their been any studies conducted to see if Riots -or- Murder Epidemics (in the U.S.) have been successfully stopped, by lethal force from authorities?
-CareWeMust

Well, lethal force from authorities sure as hell starts riots...FFS.

Then it might work to stop them as well.

Thanks for your input, smurfy.

Doh!

I read that and weep....shakin' head.

a reply to: Allaroundyou
You could be right. We'll see how the public feels if the present riots start taking the lives of U.S. citizens.

I know here in Chicago, many parents wish someone had pre-emptively killed the gang-banger who accidentally shot their son/daughter playing in front of their own home...or on a playground.

a reply to: carewemust

Americans are pretty much complacent about Government Actions. They were told to stay at home, and did so. Told to wear masks, and did so. Government officials tried to overthrow the President of the United States. The U.S. citizenry shrugs their shoulders.

That post is confusing me when OP seemed to agree with a claim Trump would send the military into a US city to "take out a few".

Maybe it isn't confusing after all. I guess many just want a different flavor of authoritarianism.

a reply to: carewemust

Did you not swear an oath when you signed up for the Navy?

originally posted by: Phoenix
I'm thinking thats a result desired by those financing, giving orders and organizing the instigators who are turning what should be peaceful protests into mob mayhem.

At worst they get CWII but if that does not gin up they get further draconian controls on the populace under guise of "safety"

Lethal force not good idea - everything else short that yes should be used to quell protest usurpers and agitators but not protests themselves which we all have a right to do.

At this point with the riots in various cities, I'm 100% with you. It's not time to bring lethal force to bear.

I wonder at what point would it be time to start doing so?

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: carewemust

Did you not swear an oath when you signed up for the Navy?

Jesus,
What navy was that?

The undercover gestapos worked for keeping bars and restaurants closed during the Covid Crisis. Heck we got Mom and Pop places still afraid to reopen because them since they are only allowed 25% capacity.

Why use the cops...call forth the militias that everyone is scared of...

George Floyd was murdered, in broad daylight by people that swore an oath to the Constitution of the United States of America and who's sole job is to protect and serve people in their community. That's a really, really big problem and ultimately points to many underlying and consistent inconvenient truths about our system of government and law enforcement.

I don't think there is any question about seeing justice served for Mr. Floyd. I haven't spoke to anyone personally that thought it was any less than murder and I am white as a ghost and watching that video enrages me to the point I have to turn it off because I start swearing out loud and scaring my kids.

That said, you can not take a single circumstance and cause and then hurt your fellow citizens. If the "protesters" were only burning police stations (NOT THAT I SANCTION THAT BY ANY MEANS) I would somehow understand. The fact is, they are burning just "whatever" up to and including other African American privately owned businesses. That's not a statement, it's not civil disobedience, it's multiple felonies against your fellow citizens, not the government.

I don't think violence on any level has a place here, I think violence begets violence and we have seen enough of that already. I think the response to the increasing level of recklessness from these riots needs to be quelled because they are hurting innocent people and families that have NOTHING to do with this out of misplaced aggression and rage.

I think appropriate measures should be put in place ASAP to stop the anarchy while at the same time never forgetting how it came about and demanding justice for George Floyd and also demanding reform in our policing system, it's broken, we have storm troopers not cops, too often hired after tours of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. It's not the same job and shouldn't be the same mentality.

We need civilian oversight boards and individual officers need to start having personal financial responsibility in lawsuits and not the taxpayer when they go to far.

a reply to: seeker1963

Good point/video!

One thing we know is that most of today's "schemes" are developed by wealthy, intelligent, evil people. I too hope the Trump Administration INTEL and DOJ is aware of who is behind them.

And is ready and willing to punish those people...sooner, rather than later.

It doesn't work like that, you'd be just dumping vats of jet fuel on an already out of control inferno. And that's where the fire similarities end -- you can't burn a line to stop it like a wildfire because it does the opposite and gives them justification to continue or escalate.

Best I can say is go with the existing riot control measures that inflict severe, but injury-free, pain. Cuff 'em while they're down & writhing, and see to it prison is long and lonely. You want deterrents, not ammo. I can't think of a better deterrent, normal humans do not like pain trade-offs.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: carewemust

Maybe it isn't confusing after all. I guess many just want a different flavor of authoritarianism.

With where things stand on the Riots, the Federal government can just let them "burn themselves out". Leave it up to each Governor. Keep the military out of it, unless rioters begin murdering U.S. citizens.

When it comes to inner-city murders that occur every day, NOW is the time to "take out" some of the gang leaders.

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: carewemust

Did you not swear an oath when you signed up for the Navy?

Post it for me. That was a long time ago!