Trump designates places of worship as essential and orders them to be opened immediately

a reply to: dogstar23

The Navajo nation went into a 72 hour lockdown...
A real lockdown like dont leave your home through the memorial weekend. Before this went into effect, they went door to door delivering supplies to anyone who needed them, making sure everyone had what they would need..
If you cant imagine the size of the army they would need to go door to door making sure we all had what we needed statewide or nationally, then you can see why they have been letting the stores stay open...
As for some of the other stuff you mentioned, I have no idea.. there doesnt seem to be any logic to some of it. Although my bank isnt actually open. I can use the atm there, not sure about the drive thru window, but you need to make an appointment to get into the building. Heck. The last time my sons went to pick up their timecards, there were armed guards posted preventing them from going into the offices. They spent a half an hour waiting for a guard to find them some and bring them out to them.
Mind you, my sons go to work early every morning, pack the work vans full of people, most temporary workers and drive one or two hours to the worksite. No ppe provided by the company. And, the first time the noticed the guards there was after someone got sick on the job and they called the boss to come pick him up and take him home..

Ya... we are doing a great job containing the virus!! Time to open up the economy?? Okay. Let's see the managers come out and mingle with the workers. Or will they be still working from home??

Isn't the Christian God everywhere all the time?

Why would a worhsipper have to go to a certain place at a certain time to express their faith again?

(EDIT: I use the Christian God out of convenience, since allegedly that's the same one that Judaism and Islam worship. )

a reply to: Gryphon66

You have something against pagans?

a reply to: Gryphon66

This argument gets back to presuming to tell other people what they want/need though. Is that really what we should be doing in a "free" society?

No one really needs X ...

No one really needs Y ...

And no one really needs to go to a certain location in order to worship as they please.

Who are you to decide what another person does or does not need?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

This argument gets back to presuming to tell other people what they want/need though. Is that really what we should be doing in a "free" society?

No one really needs X ...

No one really needs Y ...

And no one really needs to go to a certain location in order to worship as they please.

Who are you to decide what another person does or does not need?

You are a Christian?

Your religion commands that you follow your Bible?

I quoted your Bible in plain English.

If you don't like your religions ACTUAL requirements ... maybe look for a new one?

But the Bible is clear. Obey the government. There are no exceptions. It's not for you to decide, but for GOD.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

This argument gets back to presuming to tell other people what they want/need though. Is that really what we should be doing in a "free" society?

No one really needs X ...

No one really needs Y ...

And no one really needs to go to a certain location in order to worship as they please.

Who are you to decide what another person does or does not need?

You are a Christian?

Your religion commands that you follow your Bible?

I quoted your Bible in plain English.

If you don't like your religions ACTUAL requirements ... maybe look for a new one?

But the Bible is clear. Obey the government. There are no exceptions. It's not for you to decide, but for GOD.

ok oh religious scholar (which clearly you aint) which bible?
each religion can and does have a "different" bible .
along with different versions

hell even in the judeo/christian religion Judaism uses (if conservative and orthadox) the OLD TESTIMENT.
which does say worshiping in the "temple (aka church).

the christians use both the new and old testiment.
along with there are different translations of the bible.

also are you talking Orthodox or reformed sect?

so trying to use the bible you clearly show not only your religious ignorance, but also clear bias. Be that to trump, religion, or something else.


BTW show me in the FIRST AMENDMENT that "freedom to express religion" gives the government the right to limit where and in what numbers one can worship?

cant seem to find that...

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

For a christian, I would assume they would be talking about the christian bible, which yes, there are many translations out there, but I doubt if there is that big of a difference between those translations? But feel free to provide us any other version of the verses he provided that doesnt convey that same principal.. god has placed the governing powers over you, and you should obey them...

If one is talking to a christian, then the relevant holy book would be the Christian bible.

The jews have had their temple destroyed many times and have adapted and learned to live without it. The temples we see today are not actually the same as THE TEMPLE many of the passages of the bible speak of today. Originally is housed the ark of the covenant and was wre god resided. The ark was lost and now god can reside in many temples at the same time. The Christian bible made it even easier making the heart the residence of god so wherever there is a believer, there is god. No temple, no church needed, that way, one could always commune with god after the enemies came through and destroy the temples and churches... that is not to say that they ain't nice to have around to gather in, learn from each other.
But, the jews would have died out long before the birth of christianity if their temple was truly a necessity to their religion and christianity would have never gotten off the ground if a building, a church, was.

And, while there may be a few offshoots of the Christian faith that doesnt teach the idea of obedience to those earthly powers be they children/parents, wives/husbands, slaves (employees)/masters (bosses), people/government officials most do. Christ even told his disciples that whatever the priests (and he really didnt seem to like them much) told them to do, do...I believe. The bible does tell you what you should do if you find yourself and unhappy servant to those who hold authority over you though. I'll leave it to you to read the book and find the guidance yourself though. I kind of think our forefathers got rather impatient centuries ago and that is how we got things like the constitution, the end of slavery, womens rights, and elected officials instead of lords and kings.
But to the extent churches deny the authority on one of the recognized powers. They deny the authority of all the powers.

a reply to: dawnstar

wow a finer cherry picking job I have not seen in a long while

first the jews yes have had their MAIN TEMPLE destroyed over and over..

they still worship in a temple (their word for church) and nothing in the tora changes that and it still calls for it.

second... the bible also says "where two or MORE of you gather in my name ill be there"
so not only can you pray to god by yourself, you ALSO UNDER THE BIBLE can pray in a group (with no limits on how many)
you can pray in a home, a church or outdoors (as jesus did) ..

no where does it say you need or more importantly DONT NEED to pray in a building called a church.

you also forget the passage that not anyone can speak for God and to do so is blasphemy..

so in essence you , the government , a governor, a mayor or myself for that matter gets to decide what is "needed" for a muslim, chiristian, jew, wiccan, or other to worship in or in what number.

along with that one thing you keep deflecting on.... the FIRST AMENDMENT. that IS A RIGHT TO PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION AS YOU SEE FIT.

show me EXACTLY WHERE in the first amendment that limits where or how many can be together ?

I ask you this because clearly you cant find it in the bible...so lets go with what is EVERYONES RIGHT.

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

So, I guess all those early pioneers that headed west to open lands just shelved their religion till a building was built and a preacher was found so they could practice again?? And if the ultimate shtf comes around and you find yourself alone in a desolate world.. your faith will die till run across enough people to build a church?
I ain't trying to tell you how you should worship, or what you can or cant do...
I am hoping that yous dont actually believe what you are saying though. I know its inconceivable to consider, but the time might come when the buildings are gone and the faith cant be out in the open if it's to survive..

The constitution upholds everyone's right to work, choose who they wish to marry, weather or not they wish to attend church services and what church they wish to attend. It allows them to dress how they like, eat what they like, be what they want to be. They can have sex if they want, with whoever they want... or not have sex if they want...the constitution gives us freedom to be as godly, or ungodly, as we desire.
But, when you pick up a religion, you find those freedoms being reigned in considerably. Suddenly, you have people telling how you should dress.. your husband they say can decide weather you can work or not.. go to work or not. He can decide for you what church you will go to or forbid you from going to any. The little christian govt clerk can deny you a marriage license because she disagrees with your choice of spouse.. and, no you cant choose not to have sex, even if you just gave birth a month ago!!

Many people never really take what they are claiming god says seriously enough to actually practice it so they dont realize just how painfully impractical it is for some who actually try to. So, after centuries of telling women how they should be oh so submissive and obedient to their husbands... how they have the authority over them in ALL things, the authority to prohibit them from going to church, all the way to the authority to rape and beat the heck out of them... they dont realize just how bad it looks when they have such a fit when the govt include their church services in the closures.. all of a sudden, what the constitution says is more important!!
But, I bet after this is all over, in about a year or two, they will be going back to trying to con the sheep to give up those constitutional rights and accept the limitations of their doctrines that they dont seem to take seriously themselves...