If hard proof, why disclosure not exposure?

Is it true some believe there is strong evidence extraterrestrials are in league with world governments?

Is it true some people believed there is actual evidence of extraterrestrials interacting with our society?

If there is actual evidence. The call shouldn’t be for “disclosure”. The cry should be for blowing the whole thing open with legitimate investigation, and real hold in your hand evidence. Tangible evidence.

Disclosure is a red herring to distract from the fact Ufology is populated with nothing but charlatans. If they had the goods, they could expose. And wouldn’t need the false argument of disclosure.

a reply to: neutronflux

There are a few in the UFO field who truly want the truth to be told.

Then then are the ones who never want the truth to come out because they would no longer be able to string people along, dribbling out bits of info here and there, selling books and DVDs.

a reply to: neutronflux

Is it true some believe there is strong evidence extraterrestrials are in league with world governments?
Is it true some people believed there is actual evidence of extraterrestrials interacting with our society?

Yes , there are folks that believe that sort of thing .
I usually just say something like , "I need to go home and give the dog a bath"
(shhh...I don't have a dog)

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: neutronflux

There are a few in the UFO field who truly want the truth to be told.

Then then are the ones who never want the truth to come out because they would no longer be able to string people along, dribbling out bits of info here and there, selling books and DVDs.

Ask Steven Greer, for a fee he will take you out into the desert and tell you everything.

a reply to: neutronflux

UFO's have been around since before the Roman's, calling them UAP or UFO is irrelevant though a UAP can designate other than objects and include other aerial phenomena that have simply not been identified.

I think though we can all agree many of these are definite object's so UFO despite being designated as crack pot fringe thanks to decades of denial is still more relevant in most cases.

The fact remains' though that while the US and other nations knew all about UFO and maybe even captured or recovered several of them keeping them a secret served many purposes.

It could be used to hide testing of there own experimental craft.

Keeping it secret may have been originally to keep the public from panicking or creating a huge cultural shift that may have had unknown consequences for there economy's and both domestic and foreign policy's - as well as there own control since if we have to act as a single world to face potential threats or challenged from elsewhere then they are no longer top dog but have to work alongside people they are not comfortable with such as leaders of hostile foreign nations.

And it was handy for CIA and other experiment's upon the public as a cover for that such as the infamous and very evil MK ultra program's and the equivalent in other nations than the US.

It also provided a possible plausible deniability, for example if they tested an experimental top secret craft with technology that could over ride a nuclear bases missiles and lock down nuclear systems and other technology's they could always blame it on unknown or even alien players.

And with a compartmentalized government you have secret agency's and program's frightened of stepping on one another's toe's, they may not know what these are but could believe they are probably projects run by another agency or department?.

So disclosure even if it happens will never be an open and shut case.

In fact such disclosure could itself be nothing but a smoke screen, yes there may be real alien's and it may admit that but it could also hide real program's and leave both the public - and potentially any foreign powers - to then be at a loss to decide if the craft they are seeing are alien or human in origin especially if reverse engineering of real downed UFO's has given that capability.

It would not explain the situation and all it would do is give people whom have been regarded by many as lunatic fringe some ability to say "look I am vindicated the government has admitted blagh-de-blagh", it would not however give us the information we really need, what are they, what are they here for and what are they doing, are they a threat or benign, can we do anything about them and should we or should we not?.

In essence if the government itself does not know what these are and they admit that then we are simply back at square one - BUT we could then call for a more public and not a whitewash blue book cover up enquiry into the matter, perhaps even an international taskforce answerable to the people of the world as well as there leaders as to what is going on and what can be done to defend those people against any possibly harmful interference by these unknown powers.

Then again there are already claim's we or at least some forces on this earth are at war with at least some of these non human entity's and also possibly with sell out element's within there own government's that may have made back door deal's with these entity's that are extremely harmful to humanity and our planet.

a reply to: LABTECH767

You

The fact remains' though that while the US and other nations knew all about UFO and maybe even captured or recovered several of them keeping them a secret served many purposes.

So you only have innuendo by those that pedal fantasy for profit? No actual hard evidence then?

If there is actual hard evidence, blow the lid of the F’er. Disclosure is for chumps. If Ufology was about actual evidence, science, and truth they would expose.


I’ll play. What alien technology Is the USA government using right now from procured alien technology? What technology just materialized out of thin air that doesn’t have a long research track in the academic world?

a reply to: LABTECH767

You

Then again there are already claim's we or at least some forces on this earth are at war with at least some of these non human entity's and also possibly with sell out element's within there own government's that may have made back door deal's with these entity's that are extremely harmful to humanity and our planet.

And there is no evidence of this among amateur satellite trackers that like to out secret spy satellites for fun, and amateur radio astrologists?

Funny ufologists are usually glorified folklorists and story tellers, and not active radio astrologists? Shrugs.

a reply to: neutronflux

I can only give you what I believe to be the case.

Not the artists impression of Die glock and the kecksburg UFO being tested by the US, was it captured German or German recovered Alien technology, let's remind you of this and that this was probably dug up under the guise of building the Nazi parade ground in the 1930's in the German city of Nuremburg.

Note the wood carving show's what were apparent UFO crash sites with fire coming from them, possible craft buried on impact.
During WW2 many of our own far more primitive air craft crashed with enough force to be buried by the impact and while most of those broke up a more structurally strong object may have been more intact allowing the Nazi's and there Ahnenerb whom had a long standing interest in ancient and other technology's to have dug them up and worked on them, hence the possibly partially repaired Die Glock with a swastika painted on it's side.

But of course it would not be the FIRST ufo crash to have been recovered, in fact there are many going back hundreds of years in some cases but toward the end of the 19th century there was a famous incident at the small town of Aurora in Texas were a craft crashed, the pilot was given a Christian burial though his body was probably later spirited away by some secret agency, perhaps much later.


Most of these craft as you can see broke up or self destructed into tiny fragment's but perhaps on occasion they were intact enough to recover and to some degree reverse engineer.

If anyone did do this then the US definitely has and by my argument probably so did the Soviets and to some degree the Nazi's were trying to as well.


There is one other reason why they will not disclose, intellectual property, the US MIC is infamous for patenting technology's and suppressing other's, some of these technology's end up making huge amount's of money for private corporations that are tied into the MIC, these copyright's would be null and void if they had to then admit they did not invent technology's they had derived from reverse engineering.

If you do some research into the Dropa case you may find reason to assume the Chinese also have at least one craft (unless it was spirited away by the west or to Russia when it was possible to do so or make trade with the Chinese for such artefacts), perhaps very ancient, many of these ancient sites though would have been stripped out by primitive man to use there metal's for other purposes etc.

Either way what you are asking is for huge corporations tied into the MIC to give up there patent's, that is never going to happen especially with a corporate aligned US president.

a reply to: LABTECH767

So you only have folklore and BS from BS’ers. Got it.

I asked specifically for:
I’ll play. What alien technology Is the USA government using right now from procured alien technology? What technology just materialized out of thin air that doesn’t have a long research track in the academic world?

I didn’t ask you to throw tons of mud an the wall just to see what sticks.

Pick just ONE Instance that you think has the most credibility.

a reply to: LABTECH767

And you completely ignored

And there is no evidence of this among amateur satellite trackers that like to out secret spy satellites for fun, and amateur radio astrologists?

Funny ufologists are usually glorified folklorists and story tellers, and not active radio astrologists? Shrugs.

a reply to: LABTECH767

So? You cannot cite anyone that actively searches the space around earth with technology for evidence of UFO’s. But you got stories.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Five decades later, the Kecksburg UFO is identified (probably)

www.post-gazette.com...< br />
Their research — put forth in a report with the title “Has a Top 5 UFO Case Been Solved?” — suggests the vehicle was launched from Johnston Island in the Pacific two days earlier as part of America’s top-secret program for spying on the Soviet Union from space.

ATS: aliens and ufos page 1 of 904 pgs of threads. I'm sure we've covered all mostly of the OP.

Nothing new here.There will never, ever be any "disclosure". There doesnt need to be

Disclosure is nothing more than the governments of the world telling all they know about UFOs and "alien visitation." That's it. You can play semantic games with "exposure" vs "disclosure," but it won't get you anywhere in terms of anyone's understanding. A lot of people seem to feel "we have the right to know!" So they flail around with their demands that are basically ignored.

Dr. Eric Walker was the former President of Penn State University from 1956 to 1971. He was also a member of many defense boards including Chairman of the Institute for the Institute for Defense Analysis - the most powerful defense think tank. He also was Executive Secretary of the Defense Research Board from 1950-1951.(Effectively an Assistant Secretary of Defense) He was identified by Defense scientist Dr. Robert Sarbacher as one of the members of a team who in 1950 were invited to WPAFB to be briefed on the details of a UFO crash recovery. Beginning in 1983 a series of researchers questioned Dr. Walker about his involvement in the UFO phenomena, including his presence at the crash site of a crashed UFO in Kecksburg Penns. in December 1965.

Walker confirmed the existence of a group known as Majestic 12. He confirmed that some contact had been made with aliens. He, however, insisted that trying to uncover the answer was a waste of time, and that the technology was way beyond anything we would be able to understand. The Walker story is one of the best in the UFO world. The full Walker story was told in a book entitled, "UFOs, MJ-12, and the Government" published in 1990 by the MUFON Research Organization. Here is his most famous quote: to a researcher who was trying to make the point that people had a right to know,

As I say, it is none of your business. Just to satisfy your curiosity? It is not going to do any damn good except to make you happy. Is that not true? Are we going to change the plans and regulations just to make you happy? If you say you are looking for the truth, you will never get it anyway, so forget it..Why should we bother to spend time and money just to make you happy? Answer me that.

Related in “Managing Magic; the government's UFO disclosure plan,” by Grant Cameron, Winnipeg, Itsallconnected Publishing 2017, p. 28. Interview of Dr. Walker by Henry Azadehedel, August 18, 1990. ISBN:9-781542-857697.

So Walker, as a 'keeper of the secrets" is telling all you angry pontificaters to screw off. Ranting and raving on a cranky conspiracy site like ATS, a place largely ignored by anyone doing serious research, is an exercise in futility. Basically the issue is this: Nobody cares but you and you're not big enough to make anything happen. Rather than complain about UFO researchers who are actually doing the work, why don't you apply yourself and and make a contribution?

a reply to: schuyler

Excellent summary.

Well said.

Simple fact is, the people of this world could not handle a goverment coming out and telling us that UFO's/Aliens or something from the stars have been a part of our culture for as long as we've been around.
Look how we reacted when a virus hit us. Panic buying every toilet roll in existence. People couldn't handle a lockdown situation. How in the blue hell would they react to knowing we are not alone?

The UFO community is muddied with shills and money making charlatons. I almost want some kind of contact, just to put these people in their place.

Also, when is a good time tell everyone of our co-existence with these 'beings'? Christmas? What about new years day? What government will break the news?
The USA? Great Britain? China? Russia?

While I think there has been contact somewhere in the past with us, that was a long time ago.

There is nothing to disclose(anything informative or useful about said vistiors), even though they would LOVE...an I mean LOVE to disclose, and have everyone hold each other hands, with gun in the other, to some possible extraterrestrial threat that get more scarier as time goes on.

Calling them Satan or Satan Children did work for a while, it got everyone sharpening their pitchforks, all for the love of God.

Only thing that would be close would probably be top secret weapon an energy programs trying to do what was considered impossible back then thanks to them.

a reply to: schuyler

Majestic 12

Scientific skeptic author Brian Dunning investigated the history of the subject, and reported his findings in the 2016 Skeptoid podcast episode "The Secret History of Majestic 12". He concluded that, rather than a hoax perpetrated by the UFO community, it is likely the papers were actually part of a disinformation campaign of the US government meant to deflect attention from secret Air Force projects.[9] Referring to the MJ-12 documents, Dunning states:

They were classic disinformation, false documents created to play a role in real national security. They were designed and written for specific marks who did with them exactly what they were meant to. They took advantage of well-meaning patriots who wanted enhanced national security, and who, by being easy to fool, ended up providing exactly that.[9]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Like to produce a rebuttal? Or you just a subject of government disinformation? So you would believe “disclosure” from a government?

a reply to: schuyler

I like how you cite things a “gospel” when the only thing wholey about the folklore is the “truth” it’s based on.

a reply to: neutronflux

A question to consider is why do you need any Govt to tell you ET life is here and visiting us?

If we achieved space travel and discovered an evolving civilization, it's unlikely we would just land on their White House Lawn. We would contact individuals 1st, until a critical mass is reached.

My thoughts...