Dams Fail in Central Michigan; Evacuations Underway

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
How many state crisis does it take to stop electing idiots that create them. The water crisis was totally self inflicted. The staunch virus take that led to protests also self inflicted.

Maybe just think for a minute and stop electing idiots. Willing to bet this could have been averted with proper planning. But keep electing these morons. It is a reflection of yourself.

Really? Come on. It's been raining steady in this area for the last few days and there's nowhere for that much water to go. I hate Whitmer as much as anyone but it's not something anyone could have done anything about. The one dam is still holding so far, but you cannot stop water with that much force. Besides, we have the strongest base of Democrats (unfortunately) in the region thanks to the auto companies and a half-dozen major universities. Cities like Flint, Detroit, Bay City and all the surrounding areas have been Democrat-run for decades. You can't change that until you change the leadership and culture of the area. That will not happen here. Why do I stay? Because we are away from metro areas and the majority of the scourge.

a reply to: Cmajlz

Development has an even bigger impact than slopes do. Even a steep slope of native ground has the benefit of being permeable and reduce the amount of runoff from it. Pave something, however, and 95-100% of the water that falls on it will go to runoff. In those cases, the flatter areas are even worse because you end up with ponding until your headwater builds enough force to punch through, causing an instant deluge in place of what would have been a gradual flowdown.

a reply to: HalWesten

Total disaster state. Get the right leadership. Stop electing social justice activists. They will lead you into the gates of hell and laugh about it. Not only laugh but blame it on someone else when all the blame is on them. They knew this was a problem many moons ago. They did nothing.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: HalWesten

No, the structures have been fine for several decades, this is just a sh*t-ton of water that has been deposited in the last couple of days.

I'm not a structural engineer or familiar with the dams but it surprises me that "3 to 5 inches of water upstream" resulted in such a catastrophic failure (however I'm not familiar with the landscape, how the land 'upstream' filters down into the reservoir(s), or how much surface area all of that rain affected)

Thanks for contributing your local knowledge of the situation

A large snow pack melting in combination with the heavy rain perhaps.

originally posted by: Cmajlz
I'm curious about this area of Central Michigan. Are there mountain/hills there? If there are that 3 inches of rainfall may translate into more than 12 inches because of drainage from the hill sides. The steeper the hillsides the more runoff into the river and the faster it drains.

It's not far from the Saginaw Bay and a major river, the Tittabawasee, runs through Midland and Midland county to the north. It winds through the west part of the city and the surrounding area is pretty flat for at least 30 miles to the north and west. To the east is water and flat farmland. To the south it's all flat.

There have been two other floods in the area, one in 1986 and one in 2017. Both were bad, this is worse. I suspect there has been much more than 5" of rain in that immediate area. The flood stage on the T river is around 24', they're expecting it to crest at 38' overnight.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: HalWesten

Total disaster state. Get the right leadership. Stop electing social justice activists. They will lead you into the gates of hell and laugh about it. Not only laugh but blame it on someone else when all the blame is on them. They knew this was a problem many moons ago. They did nothing.

No kidding. A lot of us are trying to get rid of her, but we can't stop the idiots that voted her in because we're outnumbered. There are too many looney liberals here.

There is still a shelter in place order there, if the dam fails, those will definietly be covid related deaths to add to the Michigan Tally.

The Sanford breakwall has collapsed, video shows part of it missing. That's going to put a lot of people directly in the path of the water.

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: HalWesten

Total disaster state. Get the right leadership. Stop electing social justice activists. They will lead you into the gates of hell and laugh about it. Not only laugh but blame it on someone else when all the blame is on them. They knew this was a problem many moons ago. They did nothing.

No kidding. A lot of us are trying to get rid of her, but we can't stop the idiots that voted her in because we're outnumbered. There are too many looney liberals here.

How are they going to get the votes to get a recall if we are locked down and they will not even allow the census to be collected? The reason she is keeping things locked up is to prevent anyone from challenging her and removing her from office.

a reply to: rickymouse

Simple solution... throw Whitmer into the flood. If she floats, she's a witch... drag her out of the flood and burn her. If she drowns, then she died pure.

I grew up in Saginaw County spent a lot of summers in that area as I had family in Midland. I also remember the past floods.

Now I live just south. My yard has been filling with water and living close to a creek I try to watch these things.

I'm sure I will know someone effected by this.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: HalWesten

Total disaster state. Get the right leadership. Stop electing social justice activists. They will lead you into the gates of hell and laugh about it. Not only laugh but blame it on someone else when all the blame is on them. They knew this was a problem many moons ago. They did nothing.

No kidding. A lot of us are trying to get rid of her, but we can't stop the idiots that voted her in because we're outnumbered. There are too many looney liberals here.

How are they going to get the votes to get a recall if we are locked down and they will not even allow the census to be collected? The reason she is keeping things locked up is to prevent anyone from challenging her and removing her from office.

This shouldn't stop the recall effort, the population in this area is small compared to further south and south-west.

a reply to: FamCore

They are getting the rains we had a couple days ago. We had four inches of rain in less than two days. Some areas got 7 inches!!!

I bet getting insurance help is going to be a nightmare for people due to all the work from home stuff.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

That's true it's the Wal-Mart example. The paved parking lots run off so much water that normally soaks into the ground and it can only go one place. Most of the floods I was out in the aftermath were before Wal-Mart coming in, leveling everything then paving it.

a reply to: HalWesten


Unfortunately the old marketing adage is true even with floods - location, location, location. The 5 inches may only be an average while the range of rainfall may be between 2 inches and 10 inches. It all depends where you are at and, sometimes, which side of the mountain you are on. If your local creek starts to sound like a freight train, run uphill. It's a sound you won't forget.

originally posted by: Cmajlz
a reply to: HalWesten


Unfortunately the old marketing adage is true even with floods - location, location, location. The 5 inches may only be an average while the range of rainfall may be between 2 inches and 10 inches. It all depends where you are at and, sometimes, which side of the mountain you are on. If your local creek starts to sound like a freight train, run uphill. It's a sound you won't forget.

I'm sure of that. I worked in Midland in 1986 when the last major flood happened. It was awful and 40 miles away we woke up to 3' of water in our yard. We lived in a mobile home at the time between two lakes and it was bad.

The Michigan National Guard has been dispatched to the area and I was just told will be going to Dow Chemical, probably to protect the plants from floods and leaks. They have their work cut out for them.

a reply to: HalWesten

I was looking at the map of the river.

Is Wixom Lake man-made????
I am guessing the dams have something to do with the Lake?

originally posted by: Killeonidas
I love how folks rail against this governor but never ever give the same scrutiny to trump who has botch his fair share of natural disasters. I wonder why that is? a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Start your own thread for that, keep it off this one.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: HalWesten

I was looking at the map of the river.

Is Wixom Lake man-made????

I don't think so but it has a dam (well, used to) and a hydro plant and is strictly regulated as far as water depth goes.