Face Masks Pose Serious Risks To The Healthy

a reply to: Advantage

It sounds like we could probably learn from them then.

What I've read about what's available here is pretty darn dismal. At least for common use. There are some pretty fancy respirators and such as well.

As my husband would say, if you want to do something right, you've got to have the "right tool for the job"!

a reply to: Grimpachi

You mean those same Muslim countries where they regularly beat their women?

I'm sure they care a whole lot about whether or not the women have issues with being forced to live in a tent when outside the home.

a reply to: Boadicea

Your position is the one going against excepted science. So please show us the studies for masks making people sick.
Your article talks about the risk of hypoxia with N95 masks. That has been known and anyone using a N95 mask should be trained in its use. What people are wearing out and about should not be N95 masks.

The claim in your article that.

BY WEARING A MASK, THE EXHALED VIRUSES WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ESCAPE AND WILL CONCENTRATE IN THE NASAL PASSAGES, ENTER THE OLFACTORY NERVES AND TRAVEL INTO THE BRAIN.

Russell Blaylock, MD

Is one of the most idiotic things I have read in a long time and it seems to be the basis of your entire argument. I guess your quack doesn't think regular breathing is safe for your nose and brain either. The next thing he may claim is that people need to trim their nose hairs as short as possible because you know it will concentrate the virus in the nasal cavity. Baylock may have been a good doctor before he retired, but he may need to see one himself at this point. He hasn't bee quite right even before he started making claims that Obama was some mastermind of a group that wanted to start a euthanasia board.

Use some common sense. There are entire cultures that have been covering their face long before this virus and there is no evidence that their infection rate is higher than ours. In fact, the places with the highest infection rate per capita are not the countries where the people practice covering their faces regularly. Those countries are Switzerland duh, Spain, and Italy. If your quacks theory had merit then the middle east and Asian countries should be seeing the highest infection rates, but they are not. Use some common sense.

originally posted by: Advantage
2 Kids die due to wearing face masks in China

Oh no. This is so sad:

The pair of incidents, which occurred just six days apart, have prompted calls to cancel the term’s running exams amid coronavirus concerns and possible breathing difficulties brought on by the face masks — which are required to be worn by many governments worldwide in a bid to slow the illness’ spread.

I said to another poster that I wasn't sure we'd even hear of any problems... I suppose now we'll be hearing stories like these more often.

How do masks reinfect you when you are already infecred?

You breath out into the mask. It filters the virus. You breath in. Some goes back to where it came from. You never became uninfected between breaths so how do you get reinfected. Now, if you let a used mask set around a week while you have recovered from the virus, then wear it without cleaning it, then yes you can become re exposed to the virus but you are still not reinfected because of the antibodies still in you for this virus. But, you should clean or replace masks rguralerly.


How does the masks increase the carbon dioxide and reduce the oxygen?

When you exercise, the carbon dioxide in your blood goes up and the oxygen goes down. This is compensated by breathing deeper and faster. This gets rid of the carbon dioxide and gets more oxygen into you. While the mask does increase the dead air space, slightly less fresh air in each breath, your body will compensate by having you breath deeper and more often. This is why you dont have to think about breathing, it is part of how your body works. How is this a problem unless you are doing very vigorous exercise?


I say this is quack information from a quack source.

Wear them if you want to but do not fear them as they are useful and can help in slowing the spread.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Boadicea
...
In that case, all the Muslim countries where women cover their faces must be in such bad shape. Wait, that isn't happening so I think your quack doctor is full of it. Here is the thing, there are several countries where people regularly wore masks even before covid-19 and there has never been a problem. Now all of a sudden there are people coming out of the woodwork making wild claims about masks making people sick.

Sounds like the hydroxychloroquine thing doesn't it? For years it was used on a daily basis by Lupus, Rheuma or auto-immune disorder patients, or for prophylaxis against malaria, "and there has never been a problem. Now all of a sudden there are people coming out of the woodwork" exaggerating all the side effects and painting the drug as excessively dangerous and even harmful if taken by corona patients. Using HCQ prophylactically against corona the way its been used for decades against malaria (for health care workers at least), not even being on the table for discussion because of that.

In my country, they took HCQ off the protocol for malaria prophylaxis (not sure exactly when they did that). So now you can't get it even if you were to say you are going to a malaria area (they've really blocked all the access paths).

Also, imagine what the corona situation would be like (in terms of needing a vaccine or not, in terms of how big the problem is) in your country if instead of health care workers (the biggest spreaders of the disease when using insufficient PPE, or following insufficient PPE protocol) wearing this kind of PPE outfit:

... they wore this:

That's someone getting properly ready for battle. If you're going to do something, do it right. Don't just do it to give people a false sense of security while you manipulate them into becoming contributors to the problem (the corona problem). In most countries, it's still the health care workers that are contracting and spreading the virus the most. Gee, I wonder why...duh! As if you couldn't see that one coming from a mile away. Funny when the news media reports on that issue, conveniently still leaving out the details regarding the difference in PPE protocol for Asian countries like China compared to Western countries like Europe and the US (but never failing to leave out any mention of the supposed shortage that supposedly couldn't be fixed on time, or can't be fixed right now right away).

Can anyone see the problem with just wearing a protective face shield vs safety goggles (and being completely enwrapped like in the video with the Chinese health care worker)?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: rickymouse

The heat is definitely an added risk... Heat is a risk on its own.

I cannot find it now, but I did read one study which specifically addressed miners and carbon dioxide toxicity, because it is a problem, and how masks could be adapted for their specific needs. This is a similar study, noting the same issues, and lack of performance/productivity as a result of wearing masks for prolonged periods:

Respirator masks protect health but impact performance: a review

Although the protective mechanisms of respirators are largely physical and sometimes chemical, wearing respirators come with a host of physiological and psychological burdens. These can interfere with task performances and reduce work efficiency. These burdens can even be severe enough to cause life-threatening conditions if not ameliorated. Quantitative assessments of these burdens have been made so that respirator design trade-offs, wearer usages, and regulations can accommodate the needs of the wearer.

Understanding possible physiological and psychological effects of respirator wear requires a thorough understanding of the wearer and possible respirator effects.

I was in my twenties when I worked at the foundry, I would get off work, go for breakfast, then go sleep till one oclock in the afternoon. Then it was time to go out socializing, some brats and a few beers, and no more drinks after six oclock because work started at nine thirty at night. I put in ten hours a day every day. The only psychological problems we had was our desire to party hardy on weekends. Masks were worn all day long and it was usually ninety degrees working in the Kohler foundry even with the fans blowing on you.

a reply to: Boadicea

That is very sad and only proves that masks can be dangerous during vigerous exercise. The mask increased the level of work the body must compensate for and the officials requiring the masks did not take this into consideration.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Advantage
2 Kids die due to wearing face masks in China

Oh no. This is so sad:

The pair of incidents, which occurred just six days apart, have prompted calls to cancel the term’s running exams amid coronavirus concerns and possible breathing difficulties brought on by the face masks — which are required to be worn by many governments worldwide in a bid to slow the illness’ spread.

I said to another poster that I wasn't sure we'd even hear of any problems... I suppose now we'll be hearing stories like these more often.

There is a good way and a bad way to use PPE in this pandemic... children in PE or doing ANYTHING physical isnt it. In my opinion its really idiotic to say masks for everyone just as much as masks for no one. Im sure others here can attest to the fact that you DONT question your overlords or those policies they put into effect if it has to do with this virus... if you want to keep your position.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
How do masks reinfect you when you are already infecred?

You breath out into the mask. It filters the virus. You breath in. Some goes back to where it came from.

Those virus cells we exhale is part of our natural defenses to minimize the number/quantity of virus cells in our bodies. So every one of those cells that we re-inhale, increases the number/quantity of virus cells in our bodies. The more virus cells infecting our bodies, or the greater the "viral load", the greater the "cytokine storm," and the more likely severe symptoms and complications will develop.

When you exercise, the carbon dioxide in your blood goes up and the oxygen goes down. This is compensated by breathing deeper and faster. This gets rid of the carbon dioxide and gets more oxygen into you.

Apples to oranges. Your example has the person breathing in new air, which is not in any way comparable to wearing a mask and completely eliminating fresh air, while every exhale increases the carbon dioxide within the mask, and which you breathe back in.

I say this is quack information from a quack source.

Okay. Duly noted.

a reply to: whereislogic

As far as hydroxychloroquine goes for treating covid19 there are a great many studies ongoing that should answer the questions. The only blind studies that have been completed have admitted to the shortcomings in them. The doctor so to speak is still out on the subject and any doctor claiming certainty on the subject either for or against at this point before those studies are completed probably shouldn't be trusted.

a reply to: whereislogic

Sounds like the hydroxychloroquine thing doesn't it?

There are longstanding side effects known with all the drugs in that class, heart issues and cognitive issues are the biggest problems. Biggest as in most detrimental impact, and long-standing (as opposed to temporary discomfort type side effects). I don't think the heart and cognitive issues are the most frequent or common. Just the most serious.

a reply to: Advantage

There is a good way and a bad way to use PPE in this pandemic... children in PE or doing ANYTHING physical isnt it. In my opinion its really idiotic to say masks for everyone just as much as masks for no one. Im sure others here can attest to the fact that you DONT question your overlords or those policies they put into effect if it has to do with this virus... if you want to keep your position.

I expect these issues will increase as mandatory mask use increases, and once enough people (or the right people) suffer adverse effects, THEN (and only then) will changes be made.

I agree the masks for all vs masks for no one is not the way to go. There will be times when the risks of a mask will be less than the risk of no masks for someone. These quirks will have to be worked out going forward (if we stick with the mask thing at all).

I just wonder how many people will suffer in the process. And sadly probably deaths as well.

a reply to: rickymouse

I was in my twenties when I worked at the foundry, I would get off work, go for breakfast, then go sleep till one oclock in the afternoon. Then it was time to go out socializing, some brats and a few beers, and no more drinks after six oclock because work started at nine thirty at night. I put in ten hours a day every day. The only psychological problems we had was our desire to party hardy on weekends. Masks were worn all day long and it was usually ninety degrees working in the Kohler foundry even with the fans blowing on you.

Okay... you're a badass superdude and I bow to your superior fortitude!!!

Others are not so fortunate. Someone's gotta think of their best interests as well.

a reply to: Boadicea

You are referring to a tiny difference in both cases.

You are not breathing out but a very small amount of the virus and breathing back in even less. Breathing the virus out is not how your body gets rid of it to lower the viral load in your body.

If the dead air space in a mask is a problem, why is there no problem with people snorkeling? The dead air space is the same or more significant when snorkeling.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
a reply to: Boadicea

That is very sad and only proves that masks can be dangerous during vigerous exercise. The mask increased the level of work the body must compensate for and the officials requiring the masks did not take this into consideration.

Obviously. As well as others for other reasons, or the same reasons, or a combination of reasons. Everyone's health needs are important.

Sadly, as with so many things, it will take many such people being harmed -- and being killed -- before we realize the mistakes and do better.

So doctors and nurses should just stop wearing masks then, even during surgeries surely it's far safer for everyone involved...

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
a reply to: Boadicea

You are not breathing out but a very small amount of the virus and breathing back in even less. Breathing the virus out is not how your body gets rid of it to lower the viral load in your body.

You can minimize and belittle the facts as you please. You can also minimize and belittle the damage it will do, and the people who will be damaged.

I won't.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Advantage

There is a good way and a bad way to use PPE in this pandemic... children in PE or doing ANYTHING physical isnt it. In my opinion its really idiotic to say masks for everyone just as much as masks for no one. Im sure others here can attest to the fact that you DONT question your overlords or those policies they put into effect if it has to do with this virus... if you want to keep your position.

I expect these issues will increase as mandatory mask use increases, and once enough people (or the right people) suffer adverse effects, THEN (and only then) will changes be made.

I agree the masks for all vs masks for no one is not the way to go. There will be times when the risks of a mask will be less than the risk of no masks for someone. These quirks will have to be worked out going forward (if we stick with the mask thing at all).

I just wonder how many people will suffer in the process. And sadly probably deaths as well.

And thats my position... a person should decide for themselves what risk level they are willing to accept. Only each individual knows their own personal risk factors and etc. When Im not at work I dont wear a mask, but its mandatory here. Ive been asked to put one on.. so I take out a crumpled yellow quarantine mask out of my pocket and put it on. I started smoking again last year.. Im immune to covid now.

At the start of this I wore a mask more.. but now Im just tired of it. If I havent caught it by now, I guess Im either not catching it or I already did and it was mild. We have had no antibody testing among staff and from what Im gathering its a waste of time and cant be trusted anyway.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Have you even read the article?
The doctor provides sources.