Antibody Studies Of Spain And France Show Just 5% Of Population Has Been Infected

At this stage of the outbreak,Herd immunity is a massive gamble IMO.
Why?
Because we are yet to get clear evidence on the effectiveness of antibodies.
We know most people get antibodies after having the virus,but we do not yet know how effective they are at preventing re infection,or how long they will protect us from being re infected.
There is talk that some people having had the virus,have only very low levels of abtibodies while others have higher levels.

Until more is known about the effectiveness of antibodies,any government trying to implement herd immunity are risking more waves and more deaths.

The problem is some governments just assumed this is similar to other viruses-but as time goes on and we learn more we are finding that covid19 is far more complex,with a vast amount of symptoms and many different ways it can affect different sections of society.
First they believed it only affected the very old or immune compromised people,now mere months later we know that obesity,diabetes,vitamin D deficiency and being from certain ethnic backgrounds all carry a higher risk of serious symptoms from the virus.
Just a couple of months ago it was thought that young kids were pretty much safe-now they are being made very sick in some cases with complications resulting from overactive immune response,the kawasaki disease and sometimes clots leading to serious heart damage.

Not enough is yet known to risk trying to force herd immunity!
Just my opinion.

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

You raise a very good point and one I asked myself as well. Also, I have heard rumors, just rumors, that in asymptomatic people the antibody levels are negligible at best. If that is true, then is it fair to say that maybe some people may already be testing negative for antibodies that were infected early on? This would create a really bad situation with this virus.

I have remained on the fence about this whole pandemic, and by that I mean my thoughts have swung like a wild pendulum. I have contemplated the stimulus money as both hush money and a final pillaging before collapse, I have contemplated the whole thing as a total psyop, and as something very serious which important facts have been deleted for our consumption. But in either scenario this news means the seeds are sown for more lockdowns here very soon. If that's the case, this is going to mean total upheaval.

originally posted by: odd1out
a reply to: Silcone Synapse

You raise a very good point and one I asked myself as well. Also, I have heard rumors, just rumors, that in asymptomatic people the antibody levels are negligible at best. If that is true, then is it fair to say that maybe some people may already be testing negative for antibodies that were infected early on? This would create a really bad situation with this virus.

I have remained on the fence about this whole pandemic, and by that I mean my thoughts have swung like a wild pendulum. I have contemplated the stimulus money as both hush money and a final pillaging before collapse, I have contemplated the whole thing as a total psyop, and as something very serious which important facts have been deleted for our consumption. But in either scenario this news means the seeds are sown for more lockdowns here very soon. If that's the case, this is going to mean total upheaval.

Yeah, absence of antibodies (if the test is even good) is not evidence that someone never had it. It does raise question on long term recurrence though. Either way, we can't just hide in a bubble for years.

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse

Until more is known about the effectiveness of antibodies,any government trying to implement herd immunity are risking more waves and more deaths.

There is NO time for that.

It's a risk we HAVE to take. We have always taken the risk before without exception, and we must do so now.

For the sake of our own economic and societal futures, to avoid (or rather lessen, since it's already too late) the incalculable number of additional deaths from an economic disaster area that feeds depression/illness from lost livelihoods amidst thousands of businesses hitting the wall DAILY, suicide, elderly people who'd rather die than never see a loved one again, and irrational fears of even attending a hospital despite suffering other life-threatening ailments.

Hospital intakes in the UK are down by 57%. That is more frightening than the bloody virus.

We need to shake ourselves away from the bizarre, unprecedented, OCD-like paranoia about every miniature detail, with attendant cartloads of "if"s and "but"s that will do nothing but tie us into endless knots, with no Hope for the next generation, let alone ours.

As we say in the UK - and most probably Sweden - it's time to Grow A Pair.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Nope, the UK and all of Europe is doing just fine. Everything bad in America is Trump's fault.

I know because the super intelligent leftists on Twitter told me so.

If it wasn't for Trump, the USA would have zero deaths but we don't have to worry about that because us Brits are doing just fine.

Our economy is fine, our jobs are fine, our health service is fine.

Thank goodness we don't have Trump killing all our people with his ineptitude.

Regardless of antibodies, I don't see how a "recovery" is possible when this virus hides in the immune system and other places. Like aids or herpes, it will flare up and return unless a therapy is developed (and allowed to be used) that keeps it at bay. At least it hasn't produced unsightly sores on naughty bits, yet.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Like aids or herpes, it will flare up

Is there evidence that this is the case?

But AIDS doesn't exactly "flare up." AIDS kills, that all there is to it. Or are you referring to HIV?

a reply to: Phage

Leave to my good friend Phage to call me on that one. That means looking through my browser history I likely wiped already.

From some reports I may be inaccurately remembering, it hides in the immune and nervous systems as well as some organs. That was some time ago and may have been refuted, or I'm just blowing sink out my ass.

Yea, I used AIDS and the virus that causes AIDS in reference to the same thing, but only because I have read some CTs claiming HIV is not the cause of AIDS. But I do stand corrected sir, thankyou.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

CTs say all kinds of crazy #.

We should probably just nuck ourselves at this point and call it a day.

a reply to: Phage

Quite true. At least I wasn't saying it is caused by bacterial pleomorphism

I was merely trying to sidestep the other CTs by blurring the distinction between AIDS the disease and the virus responsible for it. I was also blurring the phrase "flare up" to tie it in with the expected 2nd wave or any new wave there after. Some liberties I shouldn't have taken I suppose.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

You should not have said, without evidence:

this virus hides in the immune system and other places.

Never mind the fact that "hides in the immune system" makes no sense.

a reply to: Phage

I suppose, but I never checked the veracity of those reports I remember in my now highly agitated and conflicted state of mind in regards to this subject. Of course you are absolutely correct, I should be fact checking before I add more to the confusion, but what the hell?

Perhaps I need to go fishing after all, but for real fish, the biggest kind in the deepest waters.

ETA: I think that perhaps by hiding they meant it had a way of disabling the immune system's ability to identify the virus after it has infected immune cells, if that makes any sense (probably not).

a reply to: infolurker

Here's where math gets hard, lets use the lower end number of 5%

Spain has a population of nearly 47 million, but since it's just nearly 47 million, we will round down to 46 million.

That means Spain is estimating around 2.3 million people have had the scary coronasuperairborneaids virus.

Spain has recorded just over 27k coronasuperbadvirus deaths, so lets round that up to 28k to pad the numbers a bit

I might be bad at math, but when corona-time is calculated like the flu is annually, seems the mortality rate is around 0.012%

Feel free to correct my errors if I made any, thanks!

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

If it wasn't for Trump, the USA would have zero deaths but we don't have to worry about that because us Brits are doing just fine.

Nobody is saying that , they're saying that if Trump had acted sooner and more decisively when he was told of the dangers you would have fewer deaths , as it was he just went into denial mode until it became obvious he had to act.

Trump doesn't care about plebs he cares about money.

Thank goodness we don't have Trump killing all our people with his ineptitude.

Can't argue with that.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Like aids or herpes, it will flare up

Is there evidence that this is the case?

But AIDS doesn't exactly "flare up." AIDS kills, that all there is to it. Or are you referring to HIV?

google 'south korea virus reactivation' and make your own conlcusion. I would say the jury is still out, but it may have been testing errors. Initially they said it looked like reactivation, then they changed their mind, then changed their mind again.

There was evidence for it though and I am quite sure that is what he was referring to.

So they test a small percentage of the population and extrapolate that out to the rest of the nation, seems like more of the fuzzy math used with the early models predicting everybody gonna die numbers.

I thought that it mutated and now it's a lot more infectious? Lol. # science it's just another religion.

a reply to: Irishhaf

So far, the numbers are too fuzzy to be certain of the outcome.
EG USA currently has a mortality rate of about 86000 for 1.4 mill confirmed cases. If assuming that those confirmed cases are only 20% of the actual number of infections, it means that the existing 86000 victims come from just a 50th of the total population making a potential final total of over 4 million victims if everyone is eventually infected.

Too many unknown variables but it doesn't look at all good with the current actual mortality figure around 260 per million and that number can only rise.

Looking at the numbers globally I have to wonder whether there's a more virulent strain in the Northern Hemisphere because the South appears to be generally doing a lot better.
EG South Africa, Oz & NZ have mortality rates around 4 per million so far whereas Belgium has the highest at 781/million

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: infolurker

So the lockdown works and that's a bad thing ?

Only if your against losing at least 10 -15 years of your life to lockdowns. As antibodies are not present in the lungs. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Which means a vaccine can not prevent, but can only speed up recovery time once infection spreads past the lungs.