Welcome to the GDR [German Democratic Republic] 2.0

I am an old[er] German living in the UK. As a kid we used to sometimes drive to the border in the Harz Mountain range and watch the soldiers of E-Germany. Well we went for walks , but as they were there, they made for a weird sightseeing subject too. I remember seeing them on their towers watching us with binoculars, sometimes pointing their guns towards us, and I wasn't allowed to wave to them [just in case].
I asked many questions and got the answers very early on.
It scared me that other Germans had to live like that. Incarcerated in their own country, not allowed to go on Holiday apart from communist places etc.

Then of course we visited E-Germany quite a few times. My mum kissed my forehead the first time I went, as she was preparing for me to end up in Siberia [lol] for no particular reason at all. Going across the border wasn't easy as only my brother in law was allowed to use checkpoint Charlie [he was still hungarian then] and they wanted me to go by myself by subway.
Well, having a bit of humanity left, they saw that that was a bad idea [as I was still too young] and let us through.

I had 17 Marks to spent because you couldn't exchange it back so I thought yeah I am RICH!

This was 1981. I had a walkman with Spandau Ballet on a tape. 'Gold' will be forever my first trip to E-Berlin.

Starting with a Gogga Golla [their own soda based brown concoction resembling Coke only in colour], largest glass with all trimmings [ice] in the most expensive restaurant in Berlin [Palast der Republik]. I thought that this would set me back a few Marks, but nope, the baby cost only 0.50 pfennig.

There I was with 16.50 still to spent.

So we went to the only Department store they had, and had to queue a bit before getting in. Then inside I was literally gobsmacked. where were the interesting things?
I liked clothes, but all they had was one round clothes rack full of black rollnecks. They were over 17 marks though and I didn't really want them. We asked, and were shown that modern fashion is one flight up. As we came upstairs there was a sign saying 'Newest Russian Fashion' and a queue of about 50 people. all the way to the stairs. Was it worth it? maybe.
I checked, and there was no fashion, but a woman selling the sewing patterns for the fashion. Oh-Kay. That was out then, especially as the patterns cost way more again than I had.

I turned around and nearly fainted as they had a tiny portable b/w TV on a pedestal with a star price tag of 'only' 10 000 Marks. I kid you not.
Looking around again, I settled with something like an alarm clock maybe, but that was far too expensive again. Impossible to get anything.

So we had ice cream. It was lovely I have to say, costing next to nothing, only the flavours were very homely. Apple, pair and gooseberry.

I wore yellow ballerina shoes and didn't notice that one girl had followed me for a good half an hour. She eventually asked me if she could buy my shoes, any price. [You see the E-Germans had money saved a lot because they couldn't really spend it].
I didn't, because that would have left me shoeless and I have a kind of phobia about being barefoot in public.


We ate the nicest Sunday Roast ever, in a public restaurant [cantine feeling]. I said I'd pay for myself as I still had lots of money left. Turned out to be 2.50 for a huge plate full of meat and veg and potatoes. So I still had far too much money left but I could see now that it would be difficult to spent.
When I saw a record shop I went straight there but all they had was German singers and songs I had never heard of or some Czeck Republic singers etc.

Nah, thanks.

This was just one journey. I gave the money to my brother in law, unable to even spend a third. I also had E-German friends later on and their stories used to scare me witless. They were Huge Depeche Mode fans [if you know about E-Germany, DM were a cult over there] but they had to listen carefully to the music in case some 'good' neighbour would grass them up. Which would have landed them in trouble.

When voting time came round those that were 'suspect' for whatever reason got a visit by the Stasi [a friendly visit of course, with Koffee and bisquits], where they suggested whom to vote for [not that there was much choice, [like in America they had two, which were both the same though] and why it would be in their best interest.

Yes and parents used to put their newborn's names on a list for getting a Trabant [car]. The waiting list was so long that if they put their names down at birth, they would get one delivered by roughly the time they turned 18. Not that they could choose. They would get a Trabant, colour, hutchback or sedan a surprise [one of her friends actually received a pink hutchback].

As usual in communism, you could forget any service from plummers, electricians etc. The waiting list was a few months to a year. So sod you if your pipe broke. But then, most people could fix their own stuff [had to really].

As i mentioned before, I used to be effing scared going there. The whole thing was so oppressive and wrong. I laughed [regretting it now ..big time] when going to the market and all you could buy there were carrots, potatoes and turnips. One stall had a couple of Oranges each costing a bomb.


This brings me to today.

Yesterday we were queuing at Tesco in the wind, ordered about by some little hitlers pointing out the arrows on the floor. Prices hiked up for luxury items such as rice £8 for 2kg packet.
But that wasn't even the worst.
Today I stood yet again in a queue in front of Sainsbury's. when inside a woman's voice over the tannoy told us that certain foods have been discontinued [yeah I noticed, frivolous things such as tinned mince and onion or steak], outrageous things such as oyster sauce and other things I regularly use to cook my own chinese food as all restaurants are shut and don't deliver here.

She 'reminded' us all only to buy things we really need.

And that was when some old fear started to wall up. I suddenly felt panicky as I recognised this fear. I had it back in the good old GDR, only then, I could go back home. I was free.

No way am I only buying what I need. What do they even mean?
Potatoes, carrots and apples?
Milk and stones and sand?

I need Oyster sauce but Sainsbury's has decided I don't. It's luxury now.

Our boiler is well overdue for a service but there is nobody coming out despite us paying every month.

My tooth hurts but I can't go to the dentist, I have an implant in my arm [contraceptive] that needs taking out but the GP's is closed.
Not a biggie but I fear others are in greater need.

We are being told that this crap is going to go on until September. By which time a new flu season could start. Then what?
Of course there is no other way but to vaccinate everyone, every year, late for some mutated viruses that make the vaccination useless. Especially when 35% of elderly people who had the flu jab are in danger of getting any flu easier and much, much worse but I fear having any evident objection will not count. My body ain't my own any longer. Just for a flu with a very low % of deathrate as we know now.
And yet they want to keep this up.

I could take it if it was actually useful, logic and necessary. But it an't. It's counterproductive, depressing and absolutely inane.

...and with that, I feel for the first time that we are actually on par [if not in some ways worse] than good old E-Germany.

Lets clap like seals.

I lived in Friedrichshaffen and Germering in the early 80's, I never went into E. Germany, but did accidentally venture into Czechoslovakia once. Some of my absolute fondest memories are of days at Graf Zeppelin Gymnasium.

Thanks for sharing.

Why did you leave Deutschland?

a reply to: Hecate666

I need Oyster sauce but Sainsbury's has decided I don't.

So go to a different shop and get it from there instead.

Our boiler is well overdue for a service but there is nobody coming out despite us paying every month.

We had ours serviced last week. Try changing companies.

My tooth hurts but I can't go to the dentist

Why not? Dentists are still open.

I have an implant in my arm [contraceptive] that needs taking out but the GP's is closed.

Try phoning them? They’re likely just closed to non important things.

We are being told that this crap is going to go on until September.

Got a source for this?

a reply to: TerryDon79

The Pandemic may last as long as 2 years. The lock-downs will most likely vary by region, but September seems like a reasonable assumption.
www.bloomberg.com...

originally posted by: seattlerat
a reply to: TerryDon79

www.bloomberg.com...

Where does that say the UK will continue to be in “lockdown” till September? I’ll give you a hint: It doesn’t.

a reply to: Hecate666

if you think - UK @ 2020 is in any rational way comparable to pre 1990 DDR - you are utterly delusional

I completely understand you. I didn't visit communist countries, I grew up in one.
Since this lockdown I have more and more flashbacks from that period.
I'm also sure that people who never had that experience will not understand, and I cannot blame them.
It never starts with a heavy hand, only with some minor issues. Don't buy what you don't need. Don't go out if is not essential. Be a good citizen and think of the greater good. Wear that mask, just in case. Little compromises we all have to make, right? Saving lives.

And then is all about how well is working so we will be keeping that. Because now is all about prevention. For our own good.

Communism didn't fall from the sky in people's lap in one day. It was made and supported by people like us right here, little by little, people who believed it was for the greater good. Compromise after compromise. The key word here is to have the masses "believe" that this is the best thing and is in their own interest. The rest will come naturally.

I watch them every day struggle to find more reasons to not release the grip. The numbers, at least in my country are not supporting the lockdown anymore ( they never supported it TBO but that's another discussion).Yet they cannot let it go; we have to wait some more. We have to see and study and decide if we are allowed to live our own life, and if we do how many hours at the time.

Whoever is saying that life will never be the same as before corona are right; but not because of corona. Because the frogs just got used to a few degrees more, and is not so bad after all.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Hecate666

if you think - UK @ 2020 is in any rational way comparable to pre 1990 DDR - you are utterly delusional

This statement is just a string of words unless you actually explain why. I just wrote a whole page form my heart, explaining in quite a lot of detail why I feel something more sinister is coming and you come back with 'you are delusional'?
What is this?
Are you delusional if you have claustrophobia and you are in a tight little room and feel it coming on?
I don't know you, but how can you have an opinion on my emotions, hunches and feelings when you haven't experienced a communist regime?
If you have, please add that in your laconic answer so that I know how serious I can take you.

Who knows, maybe it's all a big laugh. On TV everyone seems happy to be locked into their own homes. They paint their faces, play with drones and pretend to be on a cruise. At 8 p.m they all start clapping for the NHS.
Maybe you are right and going all Orwellian is a nothingburger, even if it is for another 6 month or longer.
Maybe wanting to socialise and going to the pub or friends is just a silly idea of mine.
Maybe being extremely depressed and then angry at times, interspersed with anxiety and a feeling of 'I've seen this before' is just me being a silly billy fuzzy woo woo, and you are the paragon of knowledge and can give me some solid advice.

Who knows. I can only tell if you actually tell me instead of poo-pooing a very real experience throughout my whole youth.

originally posted by: seattlerat
I lived in Friedrichshaffen and Germering in the early 80's, I never went into E. Germany, but did accidentally venture into Czechoslovakia once. Some of my absolute fondest memories are of days at Graf Zeppelin Gymnasium.

Thanks for sharing.

Why did you leave Deutschland?

I originally left as an Au-Pair girl [Nanny]. Then I met my husband almost 30 years ago and here I am.
Which country did you live in? I too love Czechoslovakia [now Czeck Republic ] My nan was Czeck.

I am glad someone here understands my suspicions. I guess if you never experienced it, you won't see it coming because it's all for your own good.

a reply to: Hecate666

PM for you.

Cheers

a reply to: WhiteHat

Communism didn't fall from the sky in people's lap in one day. It was made and supported by people like us right here, little by little, people who believed it was for the greater good. Compromise after compromise.

Depends. Your statement is more true for Czechoslovakia than for the USSR. After the civil war there ended, there wasn't much compromising being done by the Bolsheviks.

Cheers

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: Hecate666

PM for you.

Cheers

Received, read and then completely pressed buttons and lost the message. That's why I answer here. Duh. Thanks for it though!

a reply to: Hecate666

IDK. You compare pre-vote visits from the Stasi with not being able to get your oyster sauce or repair your boiler?

I do not see UK people get shot because they disobey the orders from above. I do not see them get sent to some gulag or similar.

Yes a lot of the DDR can be applied to any country currently but to call your country GDR 2.0 / DDR 2.0 is a bit overblown. Your German heritage should give you as much as credit as mine.

It is a overblown pandemic and in many countries worldwide we have interruptions in production chains. You are not living in the DDR, wake up.

I live in Northern California, USA.

To many, if not most, on these forums, that would put me in the heart of liberal socialist hell.

But, honestly, I just cannot understand all the angst you folks are mewling over.

California was one of the first in the US to go on “lockdown”, and looks to remain so for some time to come. And yet, I have yet, in all these past weeks, not once felt in any way restricted by “the government”.

There is a new virus going around which has proven itself to be quite dangerous. And just as I do not go about swallowing pods of laundry detergent, regardless of social media encouragements, I likewise do not disregard medical and scientific recommendations to avoid practices that increase my risk of exposure to disease.

And, even though I strongly support my rights to live as unfettered as possible; I am not enough of a monster that I would willingly put anyone else at risk for illness or death by placing my “freedom” over their safety. The consequences of this altruism may be less than optimal in terms of my financial well-being, but the burden of wondering whether I might have needlessly caused another to suffer, or die, is a far more too expensive one for me to bear.

As to food, yes, somethings are hard to find, some virtually impossible. But, that has little to do with any particular government. We have only the irrationality of our neighbors, and their panicked hoarding, to blame for that.

Signs in shops limiting purchases of some items only became necessary After the normally quite adequate stocks of those items were instantly depleted by hordes of unthinking hoarders hell-bent on denying the needs of anyone but themselves.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, a local market has ribeye roast on sale for $4,79 USD per pound, and I like to give a roast time to warm up a bit before I stick it in the oven .

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: WhiteHat

Communism didn't fall from the sky in people's lap in one day. It was made and supported by people like us right here, little by little, people who believed it was for the greater good. Compromise after compromise.

Depends. Your statement is more true for Czechoslovakia than for the USSR. After the civil war there ended, there wasn't much compromising being done by the Bolsheviks.

Cheers

History (well, especially bad history) should serve more as a general warning of the kinds of things to watch out for than some kind of etched in stone "It's gonna happen EXACTLY like this" type of thing.

IOW - No one can predict the future with exact certainty. Obviously, you can only look at what you have to draw on. The Holocaust (for example) didn't happen the same way as some other atrocities before it did. But it still happened. And was something that did have warning signs that went unheeded. The perpetrators of it were downright artistic in their creative maneuverings to make it unlike anything that had come before it. Unlike enough that you couldn't have guessed that was exactly how it was going to happen.

So when people say "This is exactly what's going to happen because it's happened before" or they say "Yeah. But it doesn't have this or that characteristic so you're wrong" they're really missing the point of having a warning at all. When you are driving in bad weather, you generally slow down and become more alert and drive more cautiously. Not because you know exactly what's going to happen if you don't. Because you know that bad weather and driving is a dangerous combination that has proved itself to be so on countess occasions.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

You are amusing but like so often people just fly over a post that took me over an hour to compose very carefully and then picks some random sentence out of context and makes it something else.

It wasn't about oyster sauce. It was about [why am I even explaining?] how the GDR had luxury items that cost a bomb [prices given in post] and non luxury items like potatoes and apple ice cream that cost almost nothing.
Did you not read where I listened to the tannoy announcement in Sainsbury's about not stocking unnecessary items any longer?
No of course you didn't, you were hung up about my one example.

For you and others that havee difficulties reading long heartfelt posts:

- Curfew
- Lockdown, penalty with fines if disobeyed
- No more 'luxury' foods but only what is deemed necessary [bread and stones]
- Police stopping you in street asking where you are going [yes happened already but not today]
- Queuing for food to buy
- Neighbours grassing you up to the police
- Not full blown communism and oppression quite yet but 'on the merry way towards it'.

If you think that I only have a point if they start wearing uniforms [oh, hang on the police do], or if I get shot during a misty night, then you don't understand how these things happen. It is slow. It starts with oyster sauce and ends with your wife being arrested for having a wrong opinion one day, never to be seen again. There could be months or even years in between.
Do americans actually learn history at school?

Those things I listed are the things that are happening in the UK in 2020 within only a couple of months.
Me not getting the food I would like to buy is nothing big but it is one of the very first steps.
We have plenty of time and plenty of far more stupid rules and regulations to be implemented. We have at least until September and who knows how long beyond that. Please refer to the BBC.
Maybe I should have written it in an easy to understand fashion instead of explaining why I had this horrid feeling in the supermarket today by giving examples. I apologise to those with short attention spans and inability to comprehend emotions and experience.

Isn't it amazing that those who have experienced it get where I am coming from?
Just let that sink in.

For you and others that haven't got the ability to read and understand what I meant I make a little TL;DR:

- Curfew
- Lockdown, penalty with fines if disobeyed
- No more 'luxury' foods but only what is deemed necessary [bread and stones]
- Police stopping you in street asking where you are going [yes happened already but not today]
- Queuing for food to buy
- Neighbours grassing you up to the police
- Not full blown communism and oppression quite yet but 'on the merry way towards it'.

Well surprise, I can read, I can even think for my own! As others can too.

Why not compare it to Hitler Germany? All these points are valid for Hitler Germany, too. I agree though, that the UK is a draconian orwellian surveilance state. More obvious than others at least. I give you that.

Maybe the current chaos about leaving EU has something to do with a lot of "luxury food" not available? Or are you just lining up to buy food because of social distancing and not because there is not enough food.

Like in the DDR. I disagree, we can agree to disagree or not.

Your country isolating itself from the world, is indeed DDR like, give you this too.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Hey sure, I could have compared it to Hitler's Germany. BUt when I stood there being told to only buy what I really need and to shop responsibly [whatever the eff that means] after having queued for 15min before a guy who looked like a security guard was gracious enough to allow me to enter the food depository, sorry supermarket. I didn't think of WW2. Mostly because I wasn't born then. I had to rely on what my parents told me and yes you are right, the same things happened there too. Really slowly, first they came for the oyster sauces and then they murdered other humans by the millions.
TBH my parents lived through it and no they didn't see it coming either. they woudl have laughed, just like so many here. It is easy to laugh at the start, when everything is still new and people believe it will never last very long.

Had someone told them that certain harmless things will lead to worse, they would have laughed too. You do that when you haven't got anything to measure it by.

But that wasn't what I experienced. I experienced communism on many occasions, first hand ,and that was what this reminded me of. So I used my experience and compared it to what is happening now.

I don't know where you live but if this idiocy lasts really until September or longer, when other foods disappear too because the government thinks you don't need to have it [for what reason is unclear, maybe they just don't want us to have any happiness, or maybe they think if I take 2 seconds to grab my beloved oyster sauce it will result in the death of infants, who knows], when you get suddenly a ration book and a time slot to pick up your essentials. When they say pubs will never open again and because this new yearly recurring flu can only be beaten if you accept a vaccine and a vaccine passport or else you can't go out at all etc. Then it starts to look a bit more dismal.

I know that I won't be able to live and stay sane if this is the 'new forever normal'.

I alwasy swore that if I get even a hunch that a government anywhere is doing something iffy, I would know sooner rather than later and would do something about it. Well here I am, telling poeple at the very baby steps of madness that there is a good possibility this could escalate.

Is this a dead cert? Nope but it is a valid point.

I am interested where others draw the line? I mean I draw mine here already. I want my freedom back and not become a prisoner of a pandemic that is frankly no different from normal flu years.
Where is your line?
When will you think "this ain't right"?

When they arrest you? When they take your children because they get ill and you are not allowed to have ill people in your home? [this is already the case in some places BTW].
When will your alarm bells start ringing?

Well my ones are on full volume right now. Hence the post. I am scared. Sorry for basing my fear on my personal experience. I am obviously a deluded idiot as per some. After all, being locked up for months is totally brilliant and normal.
If nothing comes out of this after many months of human rights being taken away from us, then I will kiss the floor and thank my lucky stars. That doesn't stop my alarm from sounding though.

This virus doesn't bother me in the least. The reaction to it makes me worry big time.

Interestingly I was just discussing the other day how it has become like it was when I went shopping in East Berlin in the 1980s. I remember going into a grocery shop in East Berlin once and my mother picked up the last hand basket which meant for my father to enter he had to wait for a person to leave and for a hand basket to be replaced. Once we got into the store, (we were only in there to see what grocery stores were like in East Berlin) there were lines and limits for other items. I don't remember if we bought anything but it was an interesting experience for an American child.

Now I'm shopping in Kroger and only allowed to go in if there is an available cart and we are standing in line to get certain basic items.

a reply to: Hecate666

I live in Germany. Here we have 1.5m (5 feet?) social distancing. A lot of "non essential" jobs are closed. Do not get me wrong here, I agree many things are overblown.

I watched this from the very beginning with "argus-eyes". My state flies zeppelins to surveil the people staying away from each other. Last week I was making a last visit to my little apple "plantage" and it took a few minutes for police to arrive. Died a little at that moment due to a lot of trouble with them lately.

No trouble, they just came looking as someone called them about "suspicious activities". A parked car, local registry plate, legally registered parked on my own ground is suspicious...

You see I agree partly, I just disagree with the DDR comparision.