New findings at the Gobekli Tepe site.

Within' the last decade or so more and more findings at the site known as Göbekli Tepe have been really ramping up and almost rewriting ancient history, or what we thought we knew about neolithic and pre - pottery neolithic peoples.
A new finding by an Israeli Archaeology team have made a rather suprising find, and are speculating that those who initially built the complex in question knew exactly what they were doing, displaying evidence they knew some basic geometry.

If anything, a discovery by Israeli archaeologists suggests the Göbekli Tepe construction project was even more complex than previously thought, and required an amount of planning and resources thought to be impossible for those times. Their study of the three oldest stone enclosures at Göbekli Tepe has revealed a hidden geometric pattern, specifically an equilateral triangle, underlying the entire architectural plan of these structures.

This implies that, in contrast to the prevailing assumption among Göbekli researchers until now, these three circles were planned as a single unit and possibly built at the same time

Using an algorithm, he identified the center points of the three irregular stone circles. Not surprisingly, those points fell roughly mid-way between the pair of central pillars in each enclosure. What was surprising, however, was that those three points could be linked to form a nearly perfect equilateral triangle. Specifically, the vertices are about 25 centimeters away from forming a perfect triangle with sides measuring 19.25 meters each.

This is an interesting find, for a while now as time has gone by since it's initial discovery back in 1963, the site has grown larger, and larger, revealing more and more, for the longest time archaeologists thought this was an ancient site that was built upon over time, on top of each generation that came along. But that assumption and thesis might be wrong.

Only four circles from the PPNA, dubbed enclosures A, B, C, and D, have been excavated so far, but surveys have shown there are at least 15 more scattered around the hill, as well as half a dozen other similar unexplored sites across southeastern Turkey.

As the article gets deeper into the subject, worth a read. It goes into detail about the carvings that I find most fascinating.
I've always found religous history and it's origins to be a fascinating subject, and Gobekli Tepe might be a significant key site that needs to be focused on to figure out our ancestral paths.

It's been noted that a lot of the carvings are not only of animals, plants and other creatures, including fauna specific of that time period and area, but there is a sort of distinct visualization, and representation at the site which depicts a clear view of man over coming nature, man recognizing they are the top of the food chain, with intermediate anthropomorphic depictions of humans.
Is Gobekli Tepe the middle stage between hunter gatherer humans and agrarian humans? Was there a dark age between such events 11,000 years ago?

www.haaretz.com...

a reply to: strongfp

Some more strange findings related to Gobekli Tepe and "T" shaped structures and depictions:

www.dainst.blog...

originally posted by: strongfp
Within' the last decade or so more and more findings at the site known as Göbekli Tepe have been really ramping up and almost rewriting ancient history, or what we thought we knew about neolithic and pre - pottery neolithic peoples.
A new finding by an Israeli Archaeology team have made a rather suprising find, and are speculating that those who initially built the complex in question knew exactly what they were doing, displaying evidence they knew some basic geometry.

If anything, a discovery by Israeli archaeologists suggests the Göbekli Tepe construction project was even more complex than previously thought, and required an amount of planning and resources thought to be impossible for those times. Their study of the three oldest stone enclosures at Göbekli Tepe has revealed a hidden geometric pattern, specifically an equilateral triangle, underlying the entire architectural plan of these structures.

This implies that, in contrast to the prevailing assumption among Göbekli researchers until now, these three circles were planned as a single unit and possibly built at the same time

Using an algorithm, he identified the center points of the three irregular stone circles. Not surprisingly, those points fell roughly mid-way between the pair of central pillars in each enclosure. What was surprising, however, was that those three points could be linked to form a nearly perfect equilateral triangle. Specifically, the vertices are about 25 centimeters away from forming a perfect triangle with sides measuring 19.25 meters each.

This is an interesting find, for a while now as time has gone by since it's initial discovery back in 1963, the site has grown larger, and larger, revealing more and more, for the longest time archaeologists thought this was an ancient site that was built upon over time, on top of each generation that came along. But that assumption and thesis might be wrong.

Only four circles from the PPNA, dubbed enclosures A, B, C, and D, have been excavated so far, but surveys have shown there are at least 15 more scattered around the hill, as well as half a dozen other similar unexplored sites across southeastern Turkey.

As the article gets deeper into the subject, worth a read. It goes into detail about the carvings that I find most fascinating.
I've always found religous history and it's origins to be a fascinating subject, and Gobekli Tepe might be a significant key site that needs to be focused on to figure out our ancestral paths.

It's been noted that a lot of the carvings are not only of animals, plants and other creatures, including fauna specific of that time period and area, but there is a sort of distinct visualization, and representation at the site which depicts a clear view of man over coming nature, man recognizing they are the top of the food chain, with intermediate anthropomorphic depictions of humans.
Is Gobekli Tepe the middle stage between hunter gatherer humans and agrarian humans? Was there a dark age between such events 11,000 years ago?

www.haaretz.com...

BABY JESUS!!!

We’ve been waiting for advancement on study of Gobekli Tepe for a LONG time now!

And we knew this would be the findings. Damn the main stream archeological asshats!

My family came from a less then 5 hour drive from Göbekli Tepe

a reply to: strongfp

The excavations have already demonstrated an understanding of simple geometries, such as concentric circles, tangent curves and straight lines.

Is it really such a stretch for them to use an equilateral triangle?

a reply to: strongfp
I think of GT as a time capsule, buried some time after the cataclysm for a future generation to find. It says...

We were here. This is what we saw, heard, experienced, and know.

Nobody wants to be forgotten.

a reply to: KKLOCO

What little did we know?

I've always followed Gobekli Tepe news and thought to myself: "it's just an old site built on top of each other."

I have a collection of archaeology books and when I saw this article, I thought I'd give them all a look over. Only ONE mentions this site in question. And a good edition I picked up a few years back of the 1980 Cambridge Encyclopedia of Archaeology clearly shows that Gobekli Tepe falls within the pre pottery neolithic zone. They knew back then where to look, but we all know the geopolitical landscape has been holding us back.

From my text book:

a reply to: chr0naut

You make a valid point.

Is it really such a stretch for them to use an equilateral triangle?

With more and more evidence of multiple sites all over the Levant and modern Turkey of "T" shaped structures, such knowledge may have worked it's way back to Egypt where they definitely knew of such a concept. Or maybe the other way around?

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: strongfp
I think of GT as a time capsule, buried some time after the cataclysm for a future generation to find. It says...

We were here. This is what we saw, heard, experienced, and know.

Nobody wants to be forgotten.

The absolute worse is to be forgotten.

I think what's more interesting is that the site extends several levels below ground and has yet to be excavated.

We'll be dead by the time they get to the bottom of it.

a reply to: strongfp

Thanks for posting. I like the idea we don't know it all about GT yet. Still uncovering the mystery. Way more interesting.

Cool beans on the nearly equilateral triangle!

My own armchair opinion (that I'm offering because I can type and have an internet connection, not because of much formal educational effort, to be clear) is that human civilization, and perhaps some non-human, is far older than most now think. It is not surprising we are ignorant as time hides so much, but there are ubiquitous indigenous stories of past "ages of wonder" and so many anomalies best explained by unknown ancient civilizations.

Not to discount or undermine "mainstream" archeology as it is a meticulous discipline that gives us so much, and most of my examples are not properly investigated to determine validity, but there are so many anomalous artifacts, structures and signs that raise valid questions about the accepted timelines. Such things are typically left for the cranks to ponder despite being available to anyone to examine themselves (provided they have funding, time and transport!). I will note that there are many true cranks and piles of crap, but the "gems" exist, and all it takes is one.

A few examples I can recall without Googling are the pyramids, the cyclopean interlocking blocks worldwide, ruts in the old rocks of Turkey showing trans-axles, the seeming ancient canal traces all over the Eastern seaboard of America, the at least 8000 yr old miles of city and farming remnants in the jungles of Guyana, the Piri-Reis Map, the Antikythera Mechanism, the lump of aluminum found in 30,000 yr old sediment in Eastern Europe, the odd isotopes found in the ice cores that could indicate previous nuclear activity, the reported city off Cuba's Western shore, the possible old nuclear reactor in Gabon, the relief map carved in rock in the Caucuses,and the myriad other accounts that indicate that if even one is "real" then our history needs a drastic re-write.

I have this hunch there are surprises to be found in our past as perfectly modern humans have been here for half a million years. It defies our nature to suppose we only got around to formulating an organized society 4 to 5 thousand years ago.

So... yeah... glad work is being done at GT!

originally posted by: [post=25138864]Baddogma

All the OOParts you mention have all been extensively looked at. You only need do a search.

Many mainstream folks are well aware of that stuff as many of us were interested in them early on and by that way came into Archaeology.

I've been conducting a 40+ year search for an advance culture/civilization in the period of the Eemian - the previous inter-glacial period - not the last one, but the one before from 130,000-115,000 years ago.

en.wikipedia.org...

Nothing unfortunately has shown up.

GT is an important site but then if you put points into its multiple interior structures you WILL get correlations, these are always possible but whether they were planned or happenstance is not known at this time. Three points will always form some sorta triangle.

Good luck in your researches.

originally posted by: Hanslune

GT is an important site but then if you put points into its multiple interior structures you WILL get correlations, these are always possible but whether they were planned or happenstance is not known at this time. Three points will always form some sorta triangle.

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to agree. From the OP source:

Using an algorithm, he identified the center points of the three irregular stone circles. Not surprisingly, those points fell roughly mid-way between the pair of central pillars in each enclosure.

My bolding.
1 - How was the center point located? There are multiple ways of considering the center point of an irregular polygon, which is what these are, made out of stone of various sizes. And then, how do we know the center of any of these structures was even significant to the builders?
2- The centers fell "roughly" between the two central pillars in each enclosure. What if the builders meant for the centers to be exactly at the midpoint of the two pillars (assuming they cared at all about those centers)? That would be a much easier thing to accomplish, so did they or not?

Lastly, the ease with which one can establish the vertices of an equilateral triangle leads to the question - why were they so far off? It's just not that hard to do.

Looks to me like coincidence. If not, then not what I'd call "advanced," or even meticulous, planning.


Harte

A great thread, It seems like new things are being found out about Gobekli Tepe all the time.

a reply to: Harte

I believe the significance is in the loose discoveries that this wasnt a site that was built upon over time.
It was built almost all at once or within a tight gap of time.
Someone or some people were planning the build, they had some sort of idea in their head to place this and that in certain positions.

Rememeber, this site is nearly 12000 years old. And has evidence of being even older. According to most sources humans should still be still living in small villages and hunting day by day.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: strongfp
I think of GT as a time capsule, buried some time after the cataclysm for a future generation to find. It says...

We were here. This is what we saw, heard, experienced, and know.

Nobody wants to be forgotten.

You are correct...it was buried twice....once by its builders to preserve it from nature and once by Nature.

originally posted by: Kurokage
A great thread, It seems like new things are being found out about Gobekli Tepe all the time.

Yep and if you want to keep informed you can look at their website:

www.dainst.blog...

www.dainst.blog...

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Harte

I believe the significance is in the loose discoveries that this wasnt a site that was built upon over time.
It was built almost all at once or within a tight gap of time.
Someone or some people were planning the build, they had some sort of idea in their head to place this and that in certain positions.

Rememeber, this site is nearly 12000 years old. And has evidence of being even older. According to most sources humans should still be still living in small villages and hunting day by day.

Based on the evidence we have the vast majority of people were hunter gathers and there is at present no evidence of village life. Which is why the search for the GP people's habitations is so important.

Given the different ages of the enclosures based on C-14 they were not built at the same time there being this establishing paper:

Establishing a radiocarbon sequence for Göbekli Tepe. State of research and new data by Dietrich from 2011.

Link to it: Technical jargon festival but it has good information and charts:

www.researchgate.net...


tepetelegrams.files.wordpress.com...

Gobekli Tepe is also where we can see wild wheat being domesticated into farmable wheat.


So, an imperfect circle .... is an ellipse. And that's the shape you get from marking the horizon where you see progressive moonrises and moonsets.... which centered on each doorway....


An equilateral triangle tells me they were using rope to lay out circumference. I hugely suspect that standing at the vertex proabably points to solstitial sunrise/sunsets.

Because the moon's orbit as at a serious angle to the ecliptic, it's moonrises and sets are complicated and vary over an 18.61 year period. Hard to line that out with just a couple of doorways.

So I bet it's solar alignments.

Just what I'd be looking for at the site, if I were interested in the astroarchaeology angle. (see what I did there?)