Bill Barr threatens to join lawsuits against stay-home orders

So there is some official legal pushback from Team Trump against state shutdowns. Not enough for my druthers, but something.

I had to truncate the title. The full title is Bill Barr threatens to join lawsuits against governors who refuse to roll back stay-home orders – which he compares to 'house arrest'

Attorney General William Barr waded further into a debate over governors' stay-at-home orders meant to slow the spread of the new coronavirus, saying he would not rule out legal action against states if he thought their actions infringed civil liberties....

'We're looking carefully at a number of these rules that are being put into place. And if we think one goes too far, we initially try to jawbone the governors into rolling them back or adjusting them,' Barr said during a radio interview on the Hugh Hewitt show on Tuesday.

'And if they´re not and people bring lawsuits, we file statements of interest and side with the plaintiffs ... As lawsuits develop, as specific cases emerge in the states, we´ll take a look at them.'

Barr and the DOJ have already done so in one Mississippi church case:

Justice Department filed a statement of interest in support of Temple Baptist Church, which claims Greenville is seeking to prevent it from holding drive-in church services that comply with social-distancing guidelines.

This is in no way an outright opposition to all "shutdown" orders by states though:

Barr said on Tuesday that stay-at-home orders come 'disturbingly close to house arrest' but could, in some cases, be justified to protect public safety.

For too many people, not just house arrest, but solitary confinement. This is mental and emotional abuse. And it sure doesn't help anyone that does become sick -- whether this virus or something else -- who cannot take care of themselves. And we are seeing the catastrophic results in the sheer numbers of skyrocketing deaths at home. Up to a 400% increase in many cities, such as New York.

He said there was a distinction between stay-at-home orders and requiring people to maintain a distance of 6 feet (1.8 m) or to wear masks in public.

Those orders 'are fine' because they reduce the risk of transmission.

Wearing a mask is for the benefit of others -- not yourself. It is unconscionable that the state should put anyone in a position of endangering their own health. I won't be wearing a mask in public. Not on state orders at least. If that became required here, I wouldn't go out. I would find ways to get what I want without going out -- like home deliveries. I might consider wearing one in a store that voluntarily requires patrons to do so. I probably still wouldn't, simply because of the risk to my own health from the possibility that I am infected, and infecting my own mask, and constantly re-infecting myself, increasing my viral load, and therefore the severity of symptoms -- and the risk of complications. I suspect this is the reason so many health professionals have gotten so sick (including many deaths).

Barr said he was more concerned about 'blunter' orders which call for staying at home or shutting down a business 'regardless of the capacity of the business to operate safely.'

That's fair enough. If a business can operate safely -- making whatever arrangements necessary and appropriate -- it isn't for anyone but the parties involved to decide if it is safe enough... because, well, nothing is 100% "safe." There are risks in everything. All day every day.

I don't see how any business involved in touching or involving bodily fluids, for example, could be made safe. But other businesses can be as creative as they choose and create those safe spaces (I can't believe I said those words -- ugh!). If a theater wants to open with available seats six feet apart, and maintain six feet distance in concession stand lines, bathrooms, etc., then they should be able to do so without interference from government.

My best bet is that the number of CoV patients will continue to decrease with the increased sun and heat of summer, then ramp up again next fall. In theory, we were caught by surprise with this virus, we were medically unprepared to deal with the projected high volume of patients, hence the desperate rush to slow the spread. The next few months should be devoted to better preparing hospitals and medical facilities for the new patients in fall and winter, when it ramps up again.

Hopefully, we can also come up with accurate and reliable testing, allowing random testing of the public to gauge the current threats and needs.

The ONLY way to get through this is to go through it. We can't run. We can't hide. We can't depend on vaccines. And we sure as hell can't depend on government critters!!!

a reply to: Sillyolme

I think he's arguing a case that individual rights are being infringed.

Individual rights> state rights> fed.

The federal government has stepped into state affairs on multiple occasions.

a reply to: Boadicea

For too many people, not just house arrest, but solitary confinement

Baloney. All they gotta do is open the door and go outside.
Give me a break.
Those same people lived alone before the rona and they will live alone after this.

a reply to: CriticalStinker
What rights?
The right to spread infection?

a reply to: Sillyolme

What ever happened to states rights?

States rights do not include violating federal and Constitutional rights. All states are required to provide a republican form of government, and adhere to Constitutional and federal rights.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

More important, the 9th comes before the 10th:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

These shutdown orders "deny and disparage" BOTH our enumerated and Natural rights.

It's kind of sad to see a person lose dignity like this.

Even sadder is to see how many people are happy to put others in harm's way under the delusion of protecting themselves. So what if people are dying ALONE and UNAIDED because YOU want to be safe at home, right???

Anyone and everyone who wants to socially distance and isolate themselves is welcome to do so. Anyone who forces their will on others at the barrel of a gun to protect themselves -- even when it KILLS other people -- is a coward and a bully... and worse.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: CriticalStinker
What rights?
The right to spread infection?

It's not that simple silly.

These govoners are putting blanket restrictions on the states based off of a small area.

So I'll use an example you're familiar with, Virginia.

There are parts of rural VA that don't have a problem, why should they take an economic hit?

There are places the virus isn't as much of a concern as people keeping their house. And so far the government hasn't been honest with the whole two week pitch. Who's to say this stops any time soon?

We're not going to have a vaccine or cure anytime soon... So at what point do we reconcile that and figure out what to do from here?

a reply to: Sillyolme

Baloney. All they gotta do is open the door and go outside.

Because of course no one has any health issues or disabilities or any other factor that would prevent them from doing so, right??? No such thing as wheel chairs and walkers... much less bedridden, right???

Of course you know better. You know damn well that people are being harmed, and yes, even dying, because of these Draconian orders. But you will minimize, mock and belittle those that you trample for your own protection. The weakest and most in need of compassion and assistance.

Your depraved heart is showing.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


I say we open up. We have to face the hard reality of the situation. I am ready to go back to work and start a new at home business.
I am ready to see my family and friends again.

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: CriticalStinker


I say we open up. We have to face the hard reality of the situation. I am ready to go back to work and start a new at home business.
I am ready to see my family and friends again.

Imagine if we focused on protecting the vulnerable rather than shutting everything down, spending trillions, and borching that.

Large companies have been taking small business loans, individuals are going to be facing economic crisis similar to the great depression, and many corporations are going to be flirting with massive defaults.

At this point, it's appearing more of a battle for pride than one of what's right for the nation.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Boadicea

He needs to learn his place and stop trying to be a dictator.

So, being against restrictions on constitutional rights = being a dictator.

Right.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Boadicea

What federal and constitutional rights are being infringed.

Are you not familiar with the Bill of Rights? For example, the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If the feds cannot make a law "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion, then neither can a state. Which is exactly what the state had done by barring religious worship despite it conforming to the mandated social-distancing guidelines, and why Barr and the DOJ intervened.

That's just one example of how these shutdown orders violate our Natural and Constitutional rights. It's easier to cite the ONLY enumerated right NOT being infringed or attempting/planning to be infringed:

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law

If you are too ignorant to know the other nine, here ya go: United States Bill of Rights

originally posted by: Sillyolme
Oh he really is his puppet isn't he?
Wow.

What ever happened to states rights?

The stupidity is infectious. Wash your hands.

So , it is better to stifle everyone's ability to build an autoimmunity ?

a reply to: Sillyolme

In some places, they say you cannot drive up to your church in your car and listen to your pastor on a low power AM frequency without ever rolling down a window, but you can drive through McD's and pass stuff back and forth through the drive-thru window all day.

Why can't you do one but not the other especially when freedom of religion is specifically spelled out, all social distancing is being observed, and the other is frikken drive-thru.

Why in Michigan can you not travel from one of your own houses to the other inside the state, but someone who lives outside the state can travel in to one of their own houses inside the state?

Why are we arresting lone paddle boarders in California?

Those are the types of things they're stepping in on.

originally posted by: Gothmog

So , it is better to stifle everyone's ability to build an autoimmunity ?

Excellent point -- thank you for making it.

Nature has provided its own method for immunity, and therefore our health and well being. We have every right to accept the risks and misery of catching the virus in order to develop and build our own natural immunity, without interference by government.

If others want to make different choices for themselves, good luck to them. Whatever folks want to do for themselves and by themselves is their right. But no one has the right to force me to participate.

a reply to: Boadicea
Not to minimize the rest of your OP, but this...

The ONLY way to get through this is to go through it. We can't run. We can't hide. We can't depend on vaccines. And we sure as hell can't depend on government critters!!!

...is the best statement in it. I may have to borrow that, with due credit of course.

a reply to: Boadicea

These shutdown orders "deny and disparage" BOTH our enumerated and Natural rights.

How so? None of this is permanent.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

This infection started with one case.
Do I need to remind people of this?

It's just starting in the rural areas.
Without adequate medical facilities available it's going to be even worse when this hits the heartland over the next few weeks. It may spread slower but spread it will.
Sorry to say but the worst is ahead of us if we don't stop this now.