No Intelligence in evolutionary branches?

a reply to: whereislogic

Yeah I get it, we are very clever sophisticated apes who can make really fancy sounds and build really noisy and dangerous machines. But why does that make us superior?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: whereislogic

Yeah I get it, we are very clever sophisticated apes who can make really fancy sounds and build really noisy and dangerous machines. But why does that make us superior?

Do you realize you're conveying that message on a human-made machine that is capable of communicating instantly across the world?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: whereislogic

Yeah I get it, we are very clever sophisticated apes who can make really fancy sounds and build really noisy and dangerous machines. But why does that make us superior?

Do you realize you're conveying that message on a human-made machine that is capable of communicating instantly across the world?

Yes, we create miracles. But what miracles are we ignoring? Broken miracles that need more miracles to fix them? Maybe humans are more crazy than smart, able to figure out loopholes and pick locks then open the airplane door for better or worse. But you can see on the news every day that we are no less vulnerable and fragile and no more impressive than your average possum.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Yes, we create miracles. But what miracles are we ignoring? Broken miracles that need more miracles to fix them? Maybe humans are more crazy than smart, able to figure out loopholes and pick locks then open the airplane door for better or worse. But you can see on the news every day that we are no less vulnerable and fragile and no more impressive than your average possum.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're in control of a duplicate of the greatest organic supercomputer ever made.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Yes, we create miracles. But what miracles are we ignoring? Broken miracles that need more miracles to fix them? Maybe humans are more crazy than smart, able to figure out loopholes and pick locks then open the airplane door for better or worse. But you can see on the news every day that we are no less vulnerable and fragile and no more impressive than your average possum.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're in control of a duplicate of the greatest organic supercomputer ever made.

No idea what that means but okay sure, humans have been building armor against nature for centuries and pretending we are demi gods and now we are as scared as animals, we're no different

a reply to: cooperton


And the humans who made this wonderful technology are the culmination action of all the humans who came before us starting long before 1.8 MA when H. Georgicus made their way out of Africa and into the Caucuses.

a reply to: peter vlar

This is my opinion as well. I dont even believe humans created language.

For example I believe our language today is more technical and elaborated than the ones our ancestors had many many species ago.

Look at species today, there way more intelligent than we give them credit for. How intelligent would they be if they had the same time in school as humans? Obviously we are smarter but the thought experiment is still there.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: whereislogic

Yeah I get it, we are very clever sophisticated apes who can make really fancy sounds and build really noisy and dangerous machines. But why does that make us superior?

Do you realize you're conveying that message on a human-made machine that is capable of communicating instantly across the world?

Three cheers for evolution!

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: NoConspiracy
a reply to: turbonium1

So we didn't evolve at all?
We were never barbaric and rude runing around half naked hunting and gathering, then became cultural and civilized. We just poped into existence as the culture we are now.

That explains alot

I'm concerned about the people who think we can't evolve, what if one does evolve would he have to burn on the stacks like all the heretics that proved Christian "science" wrong?

If God made everything as it is why is there still change?

Sincerely NC

An orangutan never turned into a chimpanzee. A chimpanzee didn't turn into a man. ALL LIFE ON THIS PLANET HAS A COMMON ANCESTOR. Would someone please pay attention for a change and stop listening to the idiots like Turbo# and Cooperstupid.

Thank you.

So true. I really wish this website had an ignore feature. It would make things so much easier. Hope you are staying safe during these rough times

Thanks for the thought. Same to you and yours as well.

A very interesting article this morning in PNAS that will cause Cooperton to break out in hives. They used the word "EVOLUTION"!!! OMG, Coop if you're out there, please write them a letter and request a retraction!!


RESEARCH ARTICLE
Phylogenetic network analysis of SARS-CoV-2 genomes
Peter Forster, Lucy Forster, Colin Renfrew, and View ORCID ProfileMichael Forster
PNAS first published April 8, 2020 doi.org...
Contributed by Colin Renfrew, March 30, 2020 (sent for review March 17, 2020; reviewed by Toomas Kivisild and Carol Stocking)
www.pnas.org...

Significance
This is a phylogenetic network of SARS-CoV-2 genomes sampled from across the world. These genomes are closely related and under evolutionary selection in their human hosts, sometimes with parallel evolution events, that is, the same virus mutation emerges in two different human hosts. This makes character-based phylogenetic networks the method of choice for reconstructing their evolutionary pathsand their ancestral genome in the human host. The network method has been used in around 10,000 phylogenetic studies of diverse organisms, and is mostly known for reconstructing the prehistoric population movements of humans and for ecological studies, but is less commonly employed in the field of virology.

The search for human origins seemed to take a step forward with the publication of the global human mitochondrial DNA tree (1). It soon turned out, however, that the tree-building method did not facilitate an unambiguous interpretation of the data. This motivated the development, in the early 1990s, of phylogenetic network methods which are capable of enabling the visualization of a multitude of optimal trees (2, 3). This network approach, based on mitochondrial and Y chromosomal data, allowed us to reconstruct the prehistoric population movements which colonized the planet (4, 5). The phylogenetic network approach from 2003 onward then found application in the reconstruction of language prehistory (6). It is now timely to apply the phylogenetic network approach to virological data to explore how this method can contribute to an understanding of coronavirus evolution.

In early March 2020, the GISAID database (www.gisaid.org...) contained a compilation of 253 severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) complete and partial genomes contributed by clinicians and researchers from across the world since December 2019. To understand theevolutionof this virus within humans, and to assist in tracing infection pathways and designing preventive strategies, we here present a phylogenetic network of 160 largely complete SARS-Cov-2 genomes (Fig. 1).

It is not evolution, there are no new species of viruses, only deliberately altered versions of the original species.

Why don't people simply look at our past centuries, and compare them to our own?

Influenza has always existed, same as every other species on Earth.

For all those centuries, we either had the flu, or had a cold, and that was it.

And we still have one cold, even if there's more than one type of it, we call it a cold, anyway.


However, we do NOT have one type of 'flu', today, we have hundreds of different variations of flu, which did not exist until the last century. We have new types of flu each and every year now, in fact.

When I hear people say this is from 'evolution', I cringe. It has nothing to do with 'evolution', when a single virus exists for centuries, as a single virus, and after biological engineering arrives, that one single virus suddenly 'evolves' into 6 or 7 'new' species of virus, each and every year! Because they create them, obviously. There is no such 'evolution' involved here, that is all a bunch of BS.

They are CREATING new strains of these viruses, every year, and when they develop a deadly version, it is spread to the entire world, in a few weeks time. Apparently, the coronavirus was created in labs of Wuhan, China, and was spread out to the world, within a few weeks or so. It is so sickening, so disgusting. These labs create new ways for us to die, and that's their whole purpose. They should all be destroyed, forever.

a reply to: Phantom423

They assume evolution to be true and force all observable evidence into that framework. It is literally backwards science. They do not prove evolution simply by calling it evolution.

The octopus is from the Cephalopod class, so a long way from Mammals and they are extremely intelligent. Their eye design is very superior to mammals too.

One interesting side to intelligence is it takes a lot of energy and so there is a give and take going on here. Chimps are very smart, but not as smart as humans, so have you ever wonder why a human needs to workout all the time just to be strong enough to lift their own body weight while a chimp sitting around all day has the strength to rip your arm off with ease? Even an adult elephant can eat for 18 hours to pound down 600 pounds of food, so we can see what it takes to maintain an animal that has a little of all the good stuff. Something needs to give and take in the end... I wonder if humans were as strong as chimps how much energy would we need to eat a day, 50 pounds?...lol

Humans devote a hell of a lot more energy to their brains than other animals, and so we took a hit in other areas like speed, quickness, strength etc. Einstein on the African savanna might not have done too well...

This comes down to whether very high intelligence is a good evolutionary trait or bad... Hard to decide. What is smart enough to be a good predator while not being too smart where you can't catch your food or you kill yourselves off due to totally abstract ideals.

But it seems evolution exploded when it finally kicked off the arms race when the first predators came about at the microscopic level. After that it has always been a race between offense and defense for 100s of millions of years, and with offense (predators) intelligence of some kind has been a positive trait while meat provides more energy for intelligence to gain a foot hold.

originally posted by: cooperton

They assume evolution to be true and force all observable evidence into that framework. It is literally backwards science. They do not prove evolution simply by calling it evolution.

Evolution is simply a word to describe 100s if not 1000s of things going on here, so to say evolution is all wrong is suggesting all these parts are also wrong. For that to happen God would need to create everything all at once as it is today with zero changes moving forward....

originally posted by: turbonium1

They are CREATING new strains of these viruses, every year, and when they develop a deadly version, it is spread to the entire world, in a few weeks time. Apparently, the coronavirus was created in labs of Wuhan, China, and was spread out to the world, within a few weeks or so. It is so sickening, so disgusting. These labs create new ways for us to die, and that's their whole purpose. They should all be destroyed, forever.

Do species spontaneously appear out of nowhere? To assume that every species is unique and are not related in anyway I need to ask how did they get here, how did God get them here?

Where were humans 2 million years ago, or 50 million? Does God really really love beetles since there are 360,000+ different species of them? Is there zero relationship with humans and apes, or how about the 6 or more other human types we have discovered in the recent past that just didn't make it as we did?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Evolution is simply a word to describe 100s if not 1000s of things going on here, so to say evolution is all wrong is suggesting all these parts are also wrong.

Evolutionary theory and the belief that the diversity of life came from natural selection is absolutely wrong.

Adaptation, epigenetics, genetic drift, and so on are all valid without the necessity of evolution. These are ways that organisms can adapt to various environments. It actually disproves evolution because why would these potentials to explore new environmental extremes be present in the genome's arsenal? For example, humans can adapt to higher altitudes through particular alterations to genetic expression that allow them to access areas with lower oxygen content. This couldn't have evolved, because that would insist this mechanism was lying dormant in the organism's genome which is antithetical to natural selection.

The proteins that facilitate and buffer the production of 2,3-BPG (the molecule that helps with low oxygen climate) are phosphoglycerate kinase, BPG mutase, and 2,3-BPG phosphatase. the two BPG enzymes are coded for by a DNA segment about 750 base pairs long. So how do you suppose these could have come to be by random mutations?? Not to mention both (along with phosphoglycerate kinase) would have to be present for this biochemical cascade to occur. Random mutations could not design all of these protein sequences as well as organize them to be synchronized to execute the particular function of high altitude acclimation.

Again and again there are countless examples of why evolution is simply not possible

For that to happen God would need to create everything all at once as it is today with zero changes moving forward....

No, God gave all organisms the ability to adapt to various environments and extremes. It was part of our coding.

originally posted by: cooperton

Evolutionary theory and the belief that the diversity of life came from natural selection is absolutely wrong.

Your Darwin thing here is basically a foot note of a large book today of what evolution is all about. He got somethings right and somethings wrong, but predator/prey has played a good deal into it all. Just look at what makes a predator successful in killing and look at what make a prey successful in living and you will see why evolution went down different paths of success. Even something like rabbits are successful mainly because they breed like crazy, and that has been their success in survival.

originally posted by: cooperton

No, God gave all organisms the ability to adapt to various environments and extremes. It was part of our coding.

When did humans come onto the earth and what were they like?

originally posted by: cooperton
Random mutations could not design all of these protein sequences as well as organize them to be synchronized to execute the particular function of high altitude acclimation.

Your argument is based on debating pure randomness and that has very little to do with any of it. How about saying nether intelligent design or non-intelligent design has very little randomness. For evolution, maybe radiation over time could play a random card, but the vast percentage of evolution is based on action/reaction events and following very define rules and laws of physics...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton

Current events lead me to believe we are not the apex species

We are the only creature that has the potential to destroy the world. That shows how powerful we are. Think how great life would be if that was directed towards altruism, love, hope and so on... There are countless people already manifesting heaven on earth, you just wont hear about them on CNN.

Evolution is about biological success. It's about having the right traits to effectively create the next generation. Intelligence might be one way to do this, but it isn't the only way.

There are animals more biologically successful than humans who do not have the ability to destroy the world. Sharks come to mind as being a class of animals that are more successful than humans. Sharks are extremely successful, yet are not considered particularly intelligent (although they have an intelligence honed for their needs).

Granted, the genus "Homo" (Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo sapiens, etc) has used their general all-around intelligence to be successful, but intelligence is NOT the only way -- and arguably not even the best way -- to become biologically successful.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Your Darwin thing here is basically a foot note of a large book today of what evolution is all about.

Explain the dilemma with the biochemical cascade I described above. It's one of the smaller cascades, yet even that is totally insurmountable by the theorized evolutionary mechanisms