You're Essential, get a different job

Constantly we are berated with people telling others that they deserve to be paid little, and if they don't like it to get a different job. We are constantly berated with the idea that it's reasonable or plausible for everyone to stop doing jobs like HHA, Fast Food Worker, Grocery Store Employee, etc.

Yet, here we are, and who's working along side doctors while many other higher paid professions are deemed non essential? All these unimportant jobs that deserve no compensation, many of whom are working through this pandemic receiving less pay while working than many will while sitting on their asses.

We need to do better and recognize the faults of our system, a job cannot both be essential and worthless, it a contradiction. We need to reassess how we do things, because right now, many are sacrificing (while many sit and do nothing) apparently worthless jobs that you all somehow cannot do without.

Ideas besides the usual bull#, because clearly you're wrong, if you weren't these jobs wouldn't be essential. If this has shown anything, these jobs you all consider worthless and not deserving of a living wage MUST BE FILLED!!!!

This Corona virus has done one thing, demonstrated how much bull# is clearly bull#.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Constantly we are berated with people telling others that they deserve to be paid little, and if they don't like it to get a different job. We are constantly berated with the idea that it's reasonable or plausible for everyone to stop doing jobs like HHA, Fast Food Worker, Grocery Store Employee, etc.

Yet, here we are, and who's working along side doctors while many other higher paid professions are deemed non essential? All these unimportant jobs that deserve no compensation, many of whom are working through this pandemic receiving less pay while working than many will while sitting on their asses.

We need to do better and recognize the faults of our system, a job cannot both be essential and worthless, it a contradiction. We need to reassess how we do things, because right now, many are sacrificing (while many sit and do nothing) apparently worthless jobs that you all somehow cannot do without.

Ideas besides the usual bull#, because clearly you're wrong, if you weren't these jobs wouldn't be essential. If this has shown anything, these jobs you all consider worthless and not deserving of a living wage MUST BE FILLED!!!!

This Corona virus has done one thing, demonstrated how much bull# is clearly bull#.

I don't understand your post. What jobs are you saying people feel are essential yet unimportant? Do you mean the fast food industry? Let's be honest. The vast reason that most people buy fast food is because they can't or won't cook and it's convenient.

I'd prefer to shop once every 2 weeks and have all home cooked meals. It's cheaper and healthier. My wife is a great cook, so I'm lucky in that regard. There's plenty of recipes and cooking guides online, so there's no reason other people can't do the same.

Both of my kids work in the service industry and are directly affected by the shutdowns / shelter in place orders. They are both still working, but have had hours and income cut. Neither of them view their jobs as permanent and able to sustain a future family on though.

a reply to: Puppylove

This whole argument is nonsense.

"Essential business" does not mean "highly valued". Hell, im an "essential employee" in an "essential business". I had a 25% pay reduction and 20% increase in hours worked. My other option? To not have cash to pay my bills, and to lose my insurance.

Everyone who is actually still working is blessed to be doing so. They are not hero's...they are lucky to still be able to participate in what little economy we have left, and to have some semblance of independance outside of the government.

Delivery drivers, food-preparers and grocery store employees are suddenly very essential. They have always been essential because our society can't run at all -- even when shut down -- without them. If you don't think grocery store clerks deserve more than an entry-level sales and marketing rep, accountant, or software "test" engineer, you don't deserve to eat.

Because that is what it has come down to. Most of the country would starve in their homes without them.

This has always been the world's biggest "duh." It's just super obvious when you are under a stay-at-home order.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
Delivery drivers, food-preparers and grocery store employees are suddenly very essential. They have always been essential because our society can't run at all -- even when shut down -- without them. If you don't think grocery store clerks deserve more than an entry-level sales and marketing rep, accountant, or software "test" engineer, you don't deserve to eat.

Because that is what it has come down to. Most of the country would starve in their homes without them.

This has always been the world's biggest "duh." It's just super obvious when you are under a stay-at-home order.

That is not how wages are deterimined. Its a market. If you think your work as a bagger at a grocers is worth $15/hr, and I think mine is worth only $9/hr...im more likely to get hired. Labor, just like everything else in humanity, is a marketplace. The most healthy offers in that marketplace are what will survive/thrive.

When im opening a new business I don't sit around asking myself, "hmm..how much is a housekeeper worth to me?". I ask myself, "hmm...what is the market rate for a housekeeper?". This market race is a mix of what people are willing to pay vs what people are willing to be paid.

originally posted by: peter_kandra
I don't understand your post.

Yes, I am also a tad confused too.

There are low paid jobs and there are low skill jobs.

Some low paid jobs or occupations are also high-skill, or require some skills. For example, a healthcare assistant may be low paid but probably has a good skill-set especially around the softer skills of communication and care.

On the other hand, many low paid jobs are also low skill. For example, delivering a takeaway requires no skills at all and you require slightly more skills (like reading a GPS) and driving to deliver a parcel. I would argue a person working in a shop - while low paid and low skilled, requires more skills than just delivering a takeaway - such as customer focus and personality.

Intelligence is not connected to pay and skill levels. I am sure that there are some very intelligent people delivering takeaways, and I know full well that there are some very unintelligent people with a low skill set who have managed to blag their way into a high paid occupations. This just shows that life is not fair!

a reply to: paraphi

Life is pretty fair, when you account for random happenstance.

More often than not, a persons lot in life is determined by personal choice. Those choices could range from, "I don't want the stress of the 9-5 grind and am happy delivering chinese food for $9/hr plus tips" to "i've spent my whole life addicted to heroin and my employment choices are limited...this chinese delivery job for $9/hr plus tips is better than minimum wage, so im going to do this for now".

I have a dude that works as a bartender for me. The public loves him, he's great at what he does. And he makes more than me after all his tips, while he only works 60hrs a pay period vs my 90hrs. Meanwhile, another 60hr/pay period bartender we have struggles to make half what he makes. And all the while...he doesn't care about the job anyway. Its just a gig for him, and when he leaves this gig he'll find another one somewhere else.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Which is the weakness of our system. There's no emphasis on the importance of a job, it's entirely determined by a chaotic system of manipulation and greed. It's about what can be manipulated for the benefit of the most clever opportunists, the rest of society can be damned so long as the wool can be pulled over everyone's eyes.

Our entire system is screwed up.

I think we'll see a change come out of this, however it's not going to be the change that people seem to think. Look forward to automation of a lot of these jobs, removal of the human component is a huge cost saver. Not only would you no longer have to worry about your employee's becoming infected by a virus or something along those lines, you no longer have to pay 20+ people to do the job that automation does. You now only have to pay 1-2 highly skilled people to keep the machines going.

Look at self ordering kiosks that have popped up, self service check-out lines at the grocery store, and warehouse automation that currently stocks shelves and helps fill orders for several companies. I don't believe the change will be immediate, but it will start to happen the moment a lot of these workers demand fair treatment in the way of pay and insurance coverage.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The market cannot adequately stock PPE in for-profit hospitals. MBAs are making clinician-level decisions over and above the objections of doctors and nurses; the people who actually know what they need to do their job. Boeing used 94-percent of its 2008 bailout to buy back it's own stock and are hailed as a paragon of the virtues of the market.

Until the first week into a pandemic (when they suddenly have no money).

What the market is willing to pay is irrelevant if it can't get the job done.

The entire concept needs to be radically dismantled and reformed so it can actually function without welfare, or it needs to die. Late-stage capitalism is the answer to the Fermi paradox.

(and I love free-markets, even if I "lost" half a house over the last two months).

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

maybe it needs to be reworked...but the way it works right now precludes all the sentimental notions of bestowing wealth on convenience store clerks just because they had to work during the quarantine while everyone else was made unemployed.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Wealth hell. Give em' hazard pay!

(You're not wrong BTW, but you already know that. Everything about the way we live needs 'work.' This crap-fest is a spotlight.)

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Which is the weakness of our system. There's no emphasis on the importance of a job, it's entirely determined by a chaotic system of manipulation and greed. It's about what can be manipulated for the benefit of the most clever opportunists, the rest of society can be damned so long as the wool can be pulled over everyone's eyes.

Our entire system is screwed up.

The importance of a job is 100% subjective, though. What job do you think is actually important? A nurse? What if i am someone who is never sick...i'd value that job lower than someone who spent 6 months in a coma. A clerk at Wal Mart? I don't shop at wal mart...i see little value personally. How about a clerk at a grocery I DO shop at? Well...there are plenty of folks who don't shop at all, and self sustain. Their value on that position would be far lower.

300mil people, each with different viewpoints, different needs, and different lifestyles. A fast food worker? Worth nothing at all to someone who doesn't eat fast food. Its all 100% subjective. And its why things are the way they are: people get paid what they agree they will be paid. no one forces anyone to take a job.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That's true. I've quit jobs on principle and I've traded up when I didn't get what I deserved.

But if gas-station clerks, delivery drivers and grocery clerks quit tomorrow, we'd have riots in the street until the military took over.

My guy at Conoco last night was bumpin' gangsta rap when I stopped in for smokes. There was a thin sheet of plexiglass about 1/16" 18"x24" between us. I pointed to it and said, "They taking care of you I guess."

He laughed and said, "Shhhheeet... three weeks later."

I did my best to boost him and wished him continued health and he nodded. I have no idea what I would do if I was in his shoes. I'm not. I live in a house we own and work when I'm inspired. I'm lucky AF and completely useless in crisis like this.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's subjective, so let's leave it up to opportunistic manipulative predators to manipulate things for maximum personal profit. That's clearly the fairest solution.

Don't we still follow the old industrial age model or whatever you call it? The one where sciences are at the top and arts at the bottom? It's a question of worth. The debate is about what currency we measure it in, like coin vs community enrichment. The idea is that higher education equals higher intelligence, ergo a higher worth to society which in turn warrants a higher paycheck. Again though, a higher education in arts doesn't necessarily mean you get a higher paycheck. It's usually the case that you still haw to claw your way through or up the chain, and then feebly try to hold on to the ledge of recognition.

Anyway, the whole thing about underpaid workers is a hard question. I understand any line worker or shopkeeper that feel they deserve more pay (and often they do), but it's about convincing not only those in the higher ups making choices, but also those at the side that also feel they deserve a higher salary. What bothers me the most is the lack of vocational pride (not sure that's the correct English term?), like for electricians, plumbers or carpenters. That's the case here at least, but I'm sure it's somewhat universal in western society. Someone has to do those dirty jobs, but many will shy away from it like the plague because it's deemed as unworthy and doesn't pay well.

I was going to add more but I lost my train of thought (sorry, I'm tired. Poke me if I need to clarify anything)

a reply to: Puppylove

Pay is based on skill level requirements and the ability to find a replacement.

Almost anyone can cook and package a hamburger.
Therefore they and easily replaceable.

Do you know why these are low paying jobs?
Because they have no trouble finding people to do them.

a reply to: Puppylove

I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. Your low skilled job will be filled with robots soon enough and they are immune to COVID-19.

a reply to: MRinder

I'm a home health aide. Good luck automating that one.

a reply to: MRinder

Lol..
McBurger flipper 3000...

Probably already in the works