Disclosure Project : Misinformation or not ?

Gazrok, good observation about Roswell, thats how I viewed it too...

My faith in the DP has been increased now, I was a little worried at first...

I trust the site and I trust it's intentions.
A letter I got from my local MP (Senator in the USA) was posted in the responses area.

Could still be covered up, believe it or not.

The only way we'll see disclosure is if the government, or the aliens want it...simple as that.

Well said!

400 plus people in the know with enough courage to tell you disbeliving fools.....and you still ask is it real?

I swear some of you people if confronted with an alien being would look for the zipper !
some will never learn.....

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I saw a lot of the 'testimony" of a bunch of people saying "I saw this", or "I know this guy who saw that".

But they don't show anything like pieces of a Spaceship or a real live (or even a dead) Spaceship Guy or anything like that.

In other words, they're all talk and no evidence. All hat and no cattle.

I see what you're saying Off_The_Street, and I also understand you're frustration Dr Love. But I have to ask myself...If I were a government employee, would I bring a camera or camcorder to work with me everyday? No way. These people are trying to feed their families just like you and in and doing so might have been risking their jobs. Realistically, these strange events maybe happened once in their career. So no, I do not believe DS is disinfo.




[edit on 15-3-2005 by Centurian]

[edit on 15-3-2005 by Centurian]

If no one other than the government can produce any evidence, and they won't, then, as far as I am concerned, there is no evidence.

And I guess that anyone who claims there is evidence is, according to Dr. Love's view, simply not telling the truth.

But the government HAS produced evidence, there are REAMS of it. They haven't produced PROOF, but there is evidence in abundance. I cited one such example in what I said about Roswell (where their evidence contradicts both itself and it's purpose). There may not be physical evidence out in circulation that is undeniably ET in origin, but that isn't the only kind of evidence. And there ARE physical traces out there. Most of which could be replicated but only by a handful of top labs in the world, such as micron thick layers of Bismuth, etc. that somehow end up in a farm in Brazil....

Originally posted by Gazrok
But the government HAS produced evidence, there are REAMS of it. They haven't produced PROOF, but there is evidence in abundance.

Indeed there are many puzzling pieces of evidence Gaz, but evidence as we know does not convict does it? Although all the evidence seemingly points in one direction it can often be deceiving, with the answer being much more simpler and logical than we could've imagined. Without solid proof evidence could mean anything, however fantastical the evidence may be.

The answer is often much more simple and astonishing (from a natural science point of view) than we imagine.

So although you may try to convict based on the evidence, there is certainly not enough evidence to raise 'reasonable doubt' to point to proof and a conviction. Until that time the existence of ET's is going to remain innocent until proven guilty.

but evidence as we know does not convict does it?

If only that was the case. Ever been in a child custody battle in the state of FL? Coerced heresay testimony from a five year old could mean you don't ever get your kid back even when it's five more years later and the child wants to be with their parent... Trust me on this one.

Physical evidence is of course the key, but also, if anyone goes public with physical evidence, it is extremely easy to make it disappear while still discrediting the one presenting it. The only ones who can produce physical evidence that the public will believe is the government or the aliens themselves really, simple as that.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok
The only ones who can produce physical evidence that the public will believe is the government or the aliens themselves really, simple as that.

Maybe because there isn't anything to present man. Maybe they just want people to believe there is, a bit like terrorists hiding in the shadows of every street corner.

Well, lets say you came out tomorrow, and claimed that you had a piece of material from a UFO.

If I was the G-man in charge of gathering this stuff up, it'd be pretty simple really. I'd simply show up, flash you a NASA or FAA badge, claim that you recovered a piece of the shuttle debris that may assist in future troubleshooting, and have you hand it over or place you under arrest. And that's just one scenario.... It'd really be rather simple, and nobody would believe you otherwise.

Luckily for us, the government has routinely slipped up in the paperwork efforts of the coverup....

Originally posted by Gazrok
Well, lets say you came out tomorrow, and claimed that you had a piece of material from a UFO.

If I was the G-man in charge of gathering this stuff up, it'd be pretty simple really.

Well actually it wouldn't quite go down like that if it was me that came out with it.

I wouldn't say a word, the first place I'd be is the biggest newspaper/news station I could find before I let anyone at all know. Have it broadcast before anyone knows a thing about it...

I wouldn't say a word, the first place I'd be is the biggest newspaper/news station I could find before I let anyone at all know. Have it broadcast before anyone knows a thing about it...

Then I'd show up at the news station, and have them state a retraction, or yank their FCC license for interfering with a Federal investigation... Meanwhile, they too are then convinced it's Shuttle debris, a component from a new stealth plane or drone, etc. In any case, the one coming forward, and the station doing so, ends up with egg on their face, and the public is none the wiser.

Just pointing out how simple it is...and why any presented physical evidence could easily be retrieved and covered up.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
If no one other than the government can produce any evidence, and they won't, then, as far as I am concerned, there is no evidence.

Well yeah, I guess the government's got us by the balls on this one. Science won't touch it until the government comes clean. Whether I believe or you believe doesn't really matter in the end.

And I guess that anyone who claims there is evidence is, according to Dr. Love's view, simply not telling the truth.

No, according to the government they're not telling the truth. Obviously this fact is not going to stop the believers from still believing, but it puts a limit on how far they can go, even if they have physical evidence.





You know, something just crossed my mind; What if there was something similar to a "million man march" on Washington to try and force disclosure? There are certainly millions of believers out there who would show up. How would the government handle a situation like this?

Peace

Originally posted by Gazrok
Just pointing out how simple it is...and why any presented physical evidence could easily be retrieved and covered up.

Well put it this way, if I found a downed ship with an alien amongst the wreckage I'd be loading it's arse into the back off the car and driving straight to (again) a news station e.t.c. to let them film it and put it straight on air, let them explain that one away.

Of course we're just going a bit over the top here, but I'm sorry I just don't buy it. If this evidence was happening with regularity and everywhere (as in, that rest of the world that exists outside of that little bubble called the USA) then I'm sorry there wouldn't be enough G-men around to stop the flood of information that'd come from that, including the elusive "proof".

Of course then you'd say "but the aliens want to keep their presence unknown". Ok, then why leave dead cattle all over the place (if you believe that) that you have just experimented on? Clean up the bloody mess then no one will notice!

But then you'll hear "but no, they want to hint at their existence to enlighten people (insert reason here)" what??? Make up your mind!

Ok so that's not it, it's a smoke screen, a double bloof, a triple bluff, a quad bluff...sheesh! My head's spinning...and then I realise, there's nothing actually there.

I don't know, I need to think about this a bit more, there's always truth within the fiction...

How would the government handle a situation like this?

They'd say, "The government ended it's investigations into the UFO phenomenon with the closing of Project Blue Book, and the conclusions that they do not pose a threat to the security of the nation, and that they are misidentified phenomenon and craft." and then order the police to disperse the crowd, I'd imagine...

They'd be lying of course, but then that is hardly new, now is it?

Well put it this way, if I found a downed ship with an alien amongst the wreckage I'd be loading it's arse into the back off the car and driving straight to (again) a news station e.t.c. to let them film it and put it straight on air, let them explain that one away.

Been done... They then let it "slip" that it was a hoax, and the news crews show up days later and show rubber masks and costumes that are made to be identical to what aired, everyone has a good laugh, and the story goes bye bye...

Originally posted by John Nada
Well put it this way, if I found a downed ship with an alien amongst the wreckage I'd be loading it's arse into the back off the car and driving straight to (again) a news station e.t.c. to let them film it and put it straight on air, let them explain that one away.

Of course we're just going a bit over the top here, but I'm sorry I just don't buy it. If this evidence was happening with regularity and everywhere (as in, that rest of the world that exists outside of that little bubble called the USA) then I'm sorry there wouldn't be enough G-men around to stop the flood of information that'd come from that, including the elusive "proof".

I bet that some government agency and/or miltary branch could be onsite of any crash, anywhere in the U.S. within ten to fifteen minutes. If a person is not already very close to the crash, there's no chance of pocketing any evidence. By the time the average joe knew what was happening, there would be a whole slew of M-16s aimed at his or her head. Nobody has to inform the military because their radars had already picked it up before it even hit the ground. And let's say you do get away with some evidence. Chances are someone will have seen you and told the authorities. An APB would be put out on your car, so now you have the cops looking for you. And let's say again that you do make it to the network station. That's the first place federal agents would stake out. They'd see you and grab you before you even got close to the front door. And let's say again that you are able to tell the network. You're life as you know it will be torn to threads when the government starts to discredit you on national TV.

Of course then you'd say "but the aliens want to keep their presence unknown". Ok, then why leave dead cattle all over the place (if you believe that) that you have just experimented on? Clean up the bloody mess then no one will notice!

Dead cattle raises less suspicion than missing cattle. At least they can try to explain away the total lack of blood and the surgical incisions.

But then you'll hear "but no, they want to hint at their existence to enlighten people (insert reason here)" what??? Make up your mind!

Ok so that's not it, it's a smoke screen, a double bloof, a triple bluff, a quad bluff...sheesh! My head's spinning...and then I realise, there's nothing actually there.

I don't know, I need to think about this a bit more, there's always truth within the fiction...

Your frustration is shared by many. There are so many walls to knock down, and we can't even get by the first one it seems. It's meant to be that way so people just give up and forget it.

Peace

Originally posted by Gazrok
Been done... They then let it "slip" that it was a hoax, and the news crews show up days later and show rubber masks and costumes that are made to be identical to what aired, everyone has a good laugh, and the story goes bye bye...

Which incident are you referring to exactly? I've heard a couple of stories like that...

Which incident are you referring to exactly? I've heard a couple of stories like that...

Well, as you mentioned, there was more than one such case....

But, the one that comes most easily to mind is the Alien Autopsy film. Just weeks after it, there were news reports about finding the masks and dummies...I saw one such news report myself on the local CBS affiliate. Months later, more claims were made of finding the dummy and masks, most of which confused the "Penthouse Alien" with the Autopsy flick. (the Penthouse alien was pics of the alien used for the Roswell film, that the editor thought was legit). Now, I'm not saying I buy the Autopsy flick, just using it as an example here.....of how this can, and has been debunked, even when wheeling in an alien....

Originally posted by Gazrok
Now, I'm not saying I buy the Autopsy flick, just using it as an example here.....of how this can, and has been debunked, even when wheeling in an alien....

Nah man, that isn't someone wheeling an alien corpse into a building filled with hundreds of people and having it broadcast all over the world, reporters would be stepping over themselves to get that one...even if they had to go over their bosses heads.

Plus, we both know (at least I hope you do) that the alien autopsy video is complete horse manure.

I'm really sorry to turn this into a believer/dis-believer discussion but it seems to be heading that way...

Now, onto this "G-men can keep anything under wraps e.t.c." again I just don't buy it. I do agree that they'd certainly keep alot under the radar but come on. Again I think you're being too US-centric but let's just look at that for a moment.

The US is a country in which G-men can't even keep the sexual activities of the President out of the public eye. They were certainly no use when Tricky Dicky got nailed by a couple of reporters ( yeah, they've sure got that news media locked down ), plus if we're going the military way they couldn't even hide the fact that the Jessica Simpson "hero" story and her subsequent "heroic rescue" by soldiers was completely bogus, and pure propaganda. If they're so scary at keeping a lid on things it certainly didn't work on her...

They're just a few examples but I could go on and on and on, and if they're so inept at keeping these fairly US-centric incidents under wraps then how come they're so damn good at keeping the biggest secret in the world under wraps?

I'm sorry it's just not happening, and especially considering that once we get out of the US bubble there are so many unstable countries e.t.c. were if UFO's were about and proof existed it would get out so easily it really would, it would slip through the net somewhere...but no, we're still waiting.

As far as I'm concerned Roswell was the first Great US propaganda/ scare tactic experiment that they've used to great effect ever since, it worked like a dream.

Do you know what I do to realise this to myself? I go to any fairly open area, doesn't matter where I am really, then I stand there and try to imagine in as realistic way as possible a UFO suddenly descending to the ground. I try and make it as real as possible, and not be influenced by any Sci Fi I've ever watched e.t.c. then I imagine it landing and greys stepping off and wandering around.

Really, I do this and I just can't help but laugh to myself. As much as I want to it be true (and I used to be a big believer) I picture this and just know it's not true. However, that doesn't mean I turn my back on it...

Originally posted by Dr Love
It's meant to be that way so people just give up and forget it.

Well if that's the plan believe me it hasn't worked. No matter how skeptical I am it has never wilted my interest in this subject and never will, whether I believe or not. It's a common misconception that skeptics have "given up" or turned their backs on the subject, I'll never give up. I, just like you and Gaz want it finally laid to rest...we just have different views about what the conclusion will be.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by John Nada]